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The Identity of the Two Witnesses of Revelation

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by christiang, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Jun2u

    Jun2u Active Member

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    The character of a child of God is to be able to teach, and to also be taught! No one has a perfect understanding of Scriptures but you seem to argue that point. You just don’t have the spirit of humbleness. Your IQ may be high but your understanding of Scripture is very, very low.

    Once again I reiterate, the context of the Two Witnesses will NOT allow two individuals. It is only a title.

    I am not the only one but many scattered in the world who knows the identity of the Two Witnesses.

    To God Be The Glory
     
  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    there is a problem here, something deceptive in the definition of "martyr" i guess. Because John Baptist is being lumped in with Christ, see, and Christ went willingly, while John Baptist cannot be said to have had the same pov, even if it is tempting to assume that. Christ knew what was coming; John Baptist cannot be assumed to have known.
     
  3. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 51:16-17
    [16] For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it : thou delightest not in burnt offering. [17] The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

    Hebrews 10:5
    [5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    1 Corinthians 11:24-26

    The Old Testament:
    [24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it , and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

    The New Testament in my blood:
    After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it , in remembrance of me. [26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.


    The two witnesses are: the Word and Spirit therein the OT and NT

    1 Corinthians 11:28-30 KJV
    [28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. [30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.


    Ephesians 5:14 KJV
    [14] Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
     
  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    no, pretty sure that is only Catholic, wadr
    was jesus a martyr - Google Search

    as a martyr is not the same as a willing sacrifice, even if they share optics. Also, we have martyr from martus, but we also have "witness." So, without delving into it, i suggest that John Baptist is a martyr, but Christ is a Witness
     
  5. Jun2u

    Jun2u Active Member

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    I don’t think any one can argue to the points you’ve set in post #249. However; Jesus and John are not in view as to the identity of the Two Witnesses. What is throwing you off is the number “two.”

    You said:
    someone have to be blind and or dishonest not to see that John the Baptist is the ONE to come and prepared the way for the Lord.

    There are people who are spiritually blind but I don’t believe your accusation of someone being “dishonest” is warranted.

    Tell me, why did Jesus say "Verily I say, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist...” (paraphrased) Matthew 11:11. WHY?

    To God Be The Glory
     
  6. Jun2u

    Jun2u Active Member

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    The character of a child of God is to be able to teach, and to also be taught! No one has a perfect understanding of Scriptures but you seem to argue that point. You just don’t have the spirit of humbleness. Your IQ may be high but your understanding of Scripture is very, very low.

    Once again I reiterate, the context of the Two Witnesses will NOT allow for two individuals.

    I am not the only one but many who are scattered throughout the world know the identity of the Two Witnesses.

    To God Be The Glory
     
  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    First thanks for the response. "The character of a child of God is to be able to teach. my answer to that, Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts".

    then you said". "No one has a perfect understanding of Scriptures but you seem to argue that point. You just don’t have the spirit of humbleness". my answer to that, Isaiah 28:11 "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people".

    Peace in Christ Jesus, the King.

    .
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    oh yes, Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth". well I guess God is thrown off too. but no arguments from me because my stand is not changing.

    the same reason why he also said in the same verse, "but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he". now tell me why he said that.

    Peace in Yeshua the Christ.
     
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    why don't you tell me why Christ is called "martyr?"
    are you twinc? Cuz imma go check, ok
     
  10. Jun2u

    Jun2u Active Member

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    You have yet to answer my question. Do that and I'll answer yours. It is only fair.
     
  11. Jun2u

    Jun2u Active Member

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    So which category do you fall under? Milk drinker or meat eater?

    Hebrews 5:12-14 reads:
    12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
    13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness for he is a babe.
    14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    I’m surprised (not really) that you etched out the phrase, “and also able to be taught.” It can only have one meaning, that is, you don’t need teaching. You understand all.

    But I am going to show you the error of how you understand or interpret Scriptures through your own scripture reference.

    You used Isaiah 28:11 to answer my statement above which have nothing really to do with what I’ve stated.

    Isaiah 28:11 is a commentary about the tongues phenomenon found in
    1 Corinthians 14:21. Note the similarities and almost exact words used.

    Isaiah 28:11
    For with stammering lips and other tongues will he speak to this people.

    1 Corinthians 14:21
    In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak with this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

    Jeremiah 5:15
    Lo I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandeth what they say.

    Deuteronomy 28:49ff
    The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand.

    This nation whose tongue they did not understand was the Assyrians who destroyed the Nation of Israel.

    The interpretation:

    Isaiah 28:11
    For with stammering lips and other tongues (other nations) will I (God) speak to this nation (Ancient Israel). In other words, God is going to use a nation, a nation whose culture was so different and so enticing full of idols and other gods. Ancient Israel were so enamored by them that they were destroyed by them.

    Isaiah 28 had nothing to do at all with the statement I had made, and that is suspect how you interpret and understand Scriptures.

    To God Be The Glory
     
  12. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    No it's not fair, so your answer please.
     
  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Milk do the body Good, haven't you heard... :). and meat, have it not been cleansed, read Acts 10:15...;)
    now you read, 1 Corinthians 13:10 & 11 "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things". so are you still on that similac?.
    LOL, boy oh boy. error after error. #1. you forgot, 2 Peter 1:20. #2. quite quoting commentaries.
    #3. you got the wrong cross reference... listen, Isaiah 6:9 &10 "And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed". see, you didn't read the very next scripture, Isaiah 28:12 "To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. see, another word for "stammering" is stutter, which is synonyms with STUMBLING, like in stumbling block.... (smile). my God, all have to learn. it have nothing to do with language as in tongues of another language, but in precept. go back up to Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little". precept: a general rule intended to regulate behavior or thought". Matthew 13:13 "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand .Matthew 13:14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive". WHY? let's see, Matthew 13:11 "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Matthew 13:12 "For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath". sorry about that.

    see J2 you don't understand "fully".
     
  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    so iow you got it goin on in spades lol, ok
     
  15. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    the Lord and I have it going on, not in spades, but with the sword....... :cool:

    peace in Christ Yeshua.
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    The Lord Jesus the Christ and John the Baptist. the two witness, the Elect and the FIRSTBORN, the one who has preeminence. Born among women. the first to ENTER the Kingdom after Death?. John 1:15 "John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me". the Lord Jesus the "Firstborn" among many.
    Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence". the Lord Jesus before John after 6 months, then his birth?, yes.

    Peace in Christ Yeshua.
     
  17. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    hey, at least it stays nice and religious that way, and has no bearing IRL, huh

    that way ppl can just develop a belief about it, right
     
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