The importance of church?

[jiggyfly]

Here's something to consider.
But in the following instructions, I cannot praise you. For it sounds as if more harm than good is done when you meet together.[font="Verdana] [/font] First, I hear that there are divisions among you when you meet as a church, and to some extent I believe it.[font="Verdana] [/font] But, of course, there must be divisions among you so that you who have God’s approval will be recognized! When you meet together, you are not really interested in the Lord’s Supper.[font="Verdana] [/font] For some of you hurry to eat your own meal without sharing with others. As a result, some go hungry while others get drunk.22 What? Don’t you have your own homes for eating and drinking? Or do you really want to disgrace God’s church and shame the poor? What am I supposed to say? Do you want me to praise you? Well, I certainly will not praise you for this!1 Cor 11:17-22 (NLT)

 

[aspen]

It isn't the church that is important at all. It's the fellowship. God never meant for denominations to exist. They do so because of disagreement, confusion and contention. Choosing a denomination is like picking which contentious disagreement you wish to side with. God would never have had this for his bride; and He made that clear through Paul in 1 Cor 1.

It's okay to disagree. It is not okay to disagree angrily over Scripture, and then take your marbles and go play elsewhere. In fact, it's impossible that any of these denominations have split from another without slandering the first by the very act of leaving to begin with.

By this I mean slander in its real definition, not the secular definition. Slander in its real definition is to speak against - period. It doesn't matter whether the thing that is said against another is true or not as it does in its secular definition.

Which church do you know of that has repented of such, and would that even be possible without returning to whence they came, considering what repentance is?

Are we to ignore all of this because there doesn't seem to be an easy answer?

Have you ever been questioned by a new believer as to what church they should go to? Which denomination is right and true? How should they choose?

I have. I had no answer for them. Because there isn't one aside from "go to the church I go to or like myself", or "find a good Bible believing church" - What the heck does a new believer know about a Bible believing church or how to distinguish one from one that is not? It usually leads to "well the church I go to is Pentecostal and they teach straight from the Bible so go to a Pentecostal church" - again, it comes back down to "go to the church I go to and like myself".

All of this is "wrong"! It will never be otherwise either unless and until "we" do something about it, one believer at a time.

Well. I agree that infighting and denominational division is wrong and not part of God's plan, but that is one of the reasons I became Catholic

 

[mjrhealth]

Hey all. I have just recently been getting seriously into Christianity and was wondering what you guys thought about church, or how necessary (if at all) it is to one's spiritual life. I personally prefer listening to sermons at home via the Internet, and Bible reading primarily at home. Church is something that I have tried and I just can't seem to get into it. It is hard for me to drag myself to church every Sunday, however I have no qualms with praying or reading the Bible on a daily basis. So what is the verdict? Can I still be an effective, spiritual Christian without church, or am I missing out on a lot?

You have Christ, what else do you need, what could you possibly be missing that He cannot give you????

In His Love

 

[Duckybill]

The HUGE problem with going to church is that Satan has his own religious system of churches. They look similar to the real thing, I.E. wheat and tares. Those who go to church seeking God OFTEN become victims. Stay home and read the Bible if you really want to find God. When you are expert in Biblical doctrine, then check out the churches. I don't go to church for this very reason. Satan is a VERY religious fellow.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (ESV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. [sup]15 [/sup]So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

 

[FHII]

Hey all. I have just recently been getting seriously into Christianity and was wondering what you guys thought about church, or how necessary (if at all) it is to one's spiritual life. I personally prefer listening to sermons at home via the Internet, and Bible reading primarily at home. Church is something that I have tried and I just can't seem to get into it. It is hard for me to drag myself to church every Sunday, however I have no qualms with praying or reading the Bible on a daily basis. So what is the verdict? Can I still be an effective, spiritual Christian without church, or am I missing out on a lot?

The Bible says that Faith come by hearing and by hearing the word of God. That's in Romans 10. It also says you can't hear without a preacher that is sent. Other verses say that a man of God is the one who will give an account of you. That you must obey a preacher. God himself noted it's foolishness. But yes you must go to Church. More imortantly you must find one that's preaching total truth. Folks may say"the Holy Spirit will guide you", but the Bible says that you have to have a preacher.

My advice to you is to study the word of God (the Bible) and find a Preacher who sticks to that. That will be hard. But that is what must be done. But yes, you need to go to Church.

 

[mjrhealth]

The Bible says that Faith come by hearing and by hearing the word of God. That's in Romans 10. It also says you can't hear without a preacher that is sent. Other verses say that a man of God is the one who will give an account of you. That you must obey a preacher. God himself noted it's foolishness. But yes you must go to Church. More imortantly you must find one that's preaching total truth. Folks may say"the Holy Spirit will guide you", but the Bible says that you have to have a preacher.

My advice to you is to study the word of God (the Bible) and find a Preacher who sticks to that. That will be hard. But that is what must be done. But yes, you need to go to Church.

Jesus is the word of God, in Him is all the truth, if you have Christ you need no one else, did He say you had to go to church, no, but He did say" My sheep hear My voice and will follow no one else", so why would you follow after men.

In His love

 

[[email protected]]

Jesus is the word of God, in Him is all the truth, if you have Christ you need no one else, did He say you had to go to church, no, but He did say" My sheep hear My voice and will follow no one else", so why would you follow after men.

In His love

Jesus was a Jew and the church was not founded until after His ascension. How could Our Lord advise attending an assembly which had never met?

The accepted form of worship in Jesus time was Synagogue and He DID attend as well as speak in those assemblies.

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
- Hebrews 10:25

Above we see the word of the apostle advising his readers and listeners to attend the assembly of believers. I'd assume that meant churchs as well as messianic Jews.

The quoted response above is neither Biblical nor Christian advice for we are all men under the discipline of Christ Jesus. We are to attend worship ESPECIALLY as the day approaches.
What day do you suppose it's speaking of here? Sunday?

 

[FHII]

Jesus is the word of God, in Him is all the truth, if you have Christ you need no one else, did He say you had to go to church, no, but He did say" My sheep hear My voice and will follow no one else", so why would you follow after men.

In His love

The problem with taking that stance is that if people practiced it in the times of the Apostles, no one would have followed Paul, Peter, John or any of the other Apostles. If you thinking you don't have to follow a man (who is preaching in the name of Jesus, and thus is his ambassador) please consider the following verses:



2 Cor 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they year without a preacher?

1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you

Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Heb 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.



These verses say that Jesus has ambassadors (those who speak for him), and you can't hear Jesus without a preacher (and Romans 10 also says faith comes by hearing, so if you aren't hearing a preacher, you aren't getting faith). They also say that you are saved by preaching, you have to obey them that have the rule over you and they watch for your souls (notice it says "them" and thus it isn't talking about Jesus) and that you are perfected by the ministry. Finally it does say not to forsake the assembling.

 

[tomwebster]

The problem with taking that stance is that if people practiced it in the times of the Apostles, no one would have followed Paul, Peter, John or any of the other Apostles. If you thinking you don't have to follow a man (who is preaching in the name of Jesus, and thus is his ambassador) please consider the following verses:



2 Cor 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they year without a preacher?

1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you

Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Heb 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.



These verses say that Jesus has ambassadors (those who speak for him), and you can't hear Jesus without a preacher (and Romans 10 also says faith comes by hearing, so if you aren't hearing a preacher, you aren't getting faith). They also say that you are saved by preaching, you have to obey them that have the rule over you and they watch for your souls (notice it says "them" and thus it isn't talking about Jesus) and that you are perfected by the ministry. Finally it does say not to forsake the assembling.

Did you read the verses you posted, fh, or did you just post them? Do you know the context of the verses you posted? You seemingly did a good job of proof texting, but nothing else. If you are in a church that teaches the false doctrine of man (rapture, osas, universal reconciliation, etc.) you are better off staying home and studying Scripture on your own.

 

[FHII]

Did you read the verses you posted, fh, or did you just post them? Do you know the context of the verses you posted? You seemingly did a good job of proof texting, but nothing else. If you are in a church that teaches the false doctrine of man (rapture, osas, universal reconciliation, etc.) you are better off staying home and studying Scripture on your own.

I have read them and I do know the context of those verses. They ultimately state that you do need a preacher and you do need to go to Church. If you believe they are taken out of context, by all means put them in proper context. I have no doubt that you can't be in a church that teaches false doctrine. I also believe that you should study scripture on your own. However, you should be looking for a Church that does teach proper doctrine.

 

[mjrhealth]

I have read them and I do know the context of those verses. They ultimately state that you do need a preacher and you do need to go to Church. If you believe they are taken out of context, by all means put them in proper context. I have no doubt that you can't be in a church that teaches false doctrine. I also believe that you should study scripture on your own. However, you should be looking for a Church that does teach proper doctrine.

If you can show me a church, where Christ is the head, that is not built on mans wisdom and understanding, that is not filled with lies and deception, that does not bring its members into bondage, that does not cause God people to stumble, and I will show you heaven.

In His Love

 

[Amazing Grace]

Where do you find one that will stick simply to the Bible these days? {rhetorical question}

I know that by definition Church is the body of Christ and all who are Saved belong to Christ.

Still in church buildings of various denominations there are wolves amongst the sheep and tares amongst the wheat and sometimes these wolves and tares tend to heavily influence or even lead the local Churches.

 

[FHII]

If you can show me a church, where Christ is the head, that is not built on mans wisdom and understanding, that is not filled with lies and deception, that does not bring its members into bondage, that does not cause God people to stumble, and I will show you heaven.

In His Love

Well, I can. Would you judge it by your own understanding or by the Word?

 

[Disciple]

Like Jesus said, 'my burden is simple and light', and 'follow me', the Lord didnt require of us to attend church but to follow him and obey his commands, if the Lord leads you to church then go but if not, dont go.

 

[FHII]

Like Jesus said, 'my burden is simple and light', and 'follow me', the Lord didnt require of us to attend church but to follow him and obey his commands, if the Lord leads you to church then go but if not, dont go.

Heb 10:24



And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Heb 10:25



Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[marksman]

How does one "go to church" if one is the church? We are all members of the body of Christ and there is only one body and one Lord. Thanks to man, there are now thousands of bodies and thousands of Lords. Too many Christians think that the church is not the church unless it meets in a sacred building at a certain time and the people are entertained by an educated priest or protestant equivilent who takes us through specific rituals to please God.

Nothing could be further from the truth. When the veil of the temple was torn in two, it forever changed the fact that no longer was God to be found in a man made temple, he was to reside in the temple of the heart. That means people who play dress-ups in church are no longer needed as the high priest of our souls is always with(in) us.

That is why you can be the church with two or three others. Large congregatoins are an invention of man so that they can build a kingdom that says "look at me" rather than look at God.

If you can't cope with so called "church" join the club. Millions of believers are abandoning it for a New Testament experience of church that is built on relationship and reality, not religion and ritual. Most of them are finding it in church in the home, just like the NT church did surprise, surprise.

 

[jiggyfly]

How does one "go to church" if one is the church? We are all members of the body of Christ and there is only one body and one Lord. Thanks to man, there are now thousands of bodies and thousands of Lords. Too many Christians think that the church is not the church unless it meets in a sacred building at a certain time and the people are entertained by an educated priest or protestant equivilent who takes us through specific rituals to please God.

Nothing could be further from the truth. When the veil of the temple was torn in two, it forever changed the fact that no longer was God to be found in a man made temple, he was to reside in the temple of the heart. That means people who play dress-ups in church are no longer needed as the high priest of our souls is always with(in) us.

That is why you can be the church with two or three others. Large congregatoins are an invention of man so that they can build a kingdom that says "look at me" rather than look at God.

If you can't cope with so called "church" join the club. Millions of believers are abandoning it for a New Testament experience of church that is built on relationship and reality, not religion and ritual. Most of them are finding it in church in the home, just like the NT church did surprise, surprise.

Good post Marksman, I agree, very neat and polite, thanks.

 

[FHII]

2 Cor 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they year without a preacher?

1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you

Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Heb 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Is there anyone who would like to comment on these verses and tell me how it is that you don't need a preacher, can forsake the assembly and why you don't need to go to Church?

 

[tomwebster]

Is there anyone who would like to comment on these verses and tell me how it is that you don't need a preacher, can forsake the assembly and why you don't need to go to Church?

This is an assembly, ie church.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

I commend congregational fellowship and the structure therein. I think it is God-ordained (ordered) structure and environments where the body of Christ compliments each other with their strengths, and where vision is formed to disciple one another by God's word according to His principles, as well as harvesting the fruit of God's labor in lost people wherever God has us. I believe structure (not necessarily a building) is necessary to our witness of what God is doing on the inside.

It makes sense that men would gather in buildings however (God tends to take rundown places and make them new, or creates new places through toil and hard work), and that good works would/should be released from them, because it is a representation of what goes on inside us individually. The fact that God can work his miraclulous Spirit into our broken bodys, transforming us into ministers of the grace we received is our greatest witness. A broken body of many people working together in love for God's strength in our brokeness and accomplishing our destiny together is an equally great witness.

I believe lone wolves are an inaccurate representation of the fellowship and servanthood we're meant to demonstrate as new creations In Christ Jesus. When we step into Christ for the first time, we find out we are no longer alone, but our sufferings are shared across the world by everyone else in Christ, and by Christ himself. When you think about us as the body and Christ as the head, think of how our nerves respond from our individual parts separately (from pain, wamrth, cold, pressure, etc), but the head is triggered to experience all of the sensations from every part. One part of the body suffering means Christ the head is suffering, and the rest of the body is then in turmoil.

The Church can be considered in it's individual and corporate parts.

-Individual living temples of God's Spirit.
-Christ as the head of our lives, and our bodies extending his love in and through us by our individual gifts and abilities for God and from God.

-Corporate collection of individuals in Christ working together.
-Christ as the head of our lives, and our bodies extending his love in and through us by our corporate gifts and abilities to one another and to the world.