The In Christ Doctrine

[amadeus]

ha, God must love you more, i had like 20 lol

Oh, I had another 14 bad years from high school graduation to joining the UPC. Those 14 should be added to my 10 years backslid. Someone told me later that is it impossible for a person to back slide for that long, but I did and still do strongly disagree with them.

Does God love me more? Well at the least He accepts me and that to me is the important thing. I have pushed hard against His mercy and He still had some for me. That, my friend, is not a good idea, that is to push God in the wrong way. God does have a limit, but seldom if ever do we know what that limit is.

 

[H. Richard]

When a person decides to do something involving works the question arises who showed them the works to be done??? If they chose them by their choice then how can they say they are being lead by the spirit??

 

[amadeus]

When a person decides to do something involving works the question arises who showed them the works to be done??? If they chose them by their choice then how can they say they are being lead by the spirit??

We of course must know and obey His voice. So then the question to ask may be whether we are His sheep or not.

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5

 

[H. Richard]

We of course must know and obey His voice. So then the question to ask may be whether we are His sheep or not.

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5

***
This did not answer the question. All it did is dance all around it.

 

[amadeus]

***
This did not answer the question. All it did is dance all around it.

If we are always choosing as Jesus did then the question is answered, is it not?

"...nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

Does He not want us always to be led by the Holy Spirit?

If we have received the Holy Spirit into our hearts and we are not quenching that Holy Spirit, then are we not being led by the Holy Spirit?

 

[bbyrd009]

When a person decides to do something involving works

is it possible to do something and not work? So then, the definition of "works" is variable, and we are not all using the same definition, apparently. Works of the law are already condemned.

 

[Helen]

did you experience this, A? I'm curious now if every seeker does, or what. How about you, @"ByGrace" ?

If you are asking whether I ever looked back after starting along the Christian path?
Then no, never looked back. Never doubted.
I did have a few grumpy time between God and I... once was when a very close friend of mine turned back from God and left her husband.
I told her that she was a fool ( and she did come back to the lord) but I yelled (down by the river) at God saying- " If you could not keep her, how on earth can I trust that you will keep me!!"
The other time I had a sulking grump with God was after my surgery a decade ago. It went perfectly ...but a day later I had complications...so went into the mind set of " Where were You when I needed You. Why didn't you look after me..blah blah. So I wouldn't speak to God for about six weeks. I don't think it worried Him too much, He just waited patiently for me to "get it".
Finally the lights came on...and I could see that God WAS there, in the nurses, in my family as they gave me comforting words. In the caring doctors. ( sounds lame, but it was quite a revelation in the way He showed me...little things.)

Finally I repented of my attitude if only because I found that living my life without God to chat to 24/7 was a miserable way to live. He won, I lost...I gave in.
Not sure if any of this ramble is what you were asking.

Now I bet I find I am answering a post two pages back again. These threads move quickly!! LOL

 

[H. Richard]

My question was how is a person to know whether they are led by the spirit or just by their wanting to do a good work because someone wants them too.

About 4 years ago I was in a church Sunday School that my wife wanted to go to when the class decided to take up food and household items like toilet paper and paper towels, etc. This sounded good so the class did it for a single mom with 3 children.

About 8 weeks later we were informed that welfare was giving this Mom money to buy those items and we were to stop doing it. WHY! Because she was taking our food and then taking the money she got from welfare to buy her drugs on which she had just missed death by a drug overdose.


--- Needless to say the class never saw this result.

So back to my question of which some refused to answer by dancing all around it and seem to question as to why I asked it.

 

[Stranger]

My question was how is a person to know whether they are led by the spirit or just by their wanting to do a good work because someone wants them too.

About 4 years ago I was in a church Sunday School that my wife wanted to go to when the class decided to take up food and household items like toilet paper and paper towels, etc. This sounded good so the class did it for a single mom with 3 children.

About 8 weeks later we were informed that welfare was giving this Mom money to buy those items and we were to stop doing it. WHY! Because she was taking our food and then taking the money she got from welfare to buy her drugs on which she had just missed death by a drug overdose.


--- Needless to say the class never saw this result.

So back to my question of which some refused to answer by dancing all around it and seem to question as to why I asked it.

First of all, when you are led by the Spirit, the end result that you see is not important. In your story you don't know the affect it may have had on the woman. Many times you may move out in faith, led by the Spirit, and are then shot out of the saddle by friends or foes. It doesn't matter. The end result is not our concern. The leading of the Spirit is.

As to how to discern whether you just did this as a good work or as being led by the Spirit, I would say, did you want to do it when it was brought up? Or were you troubled about it? The Holy Spirit knows how to trouble our spirit when He doesn't want us to do something. Till then, we just walk and do. Count all that you do as being led by the Spirit. You already know what is wrong or right so you don't wrestle over adultry or stealing, etc., as whether or not this is the leading of the Spirit. (Philippians 3:15) "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you."

So, you just go. If you wanted to give to the woman the gift you gave, then praise God and count it of Him as He did not trouble or burden you not to give.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Great question about works, Richard. I hope you know the answer and will share it with us.

We had a similar experience where we took a woman food because she had been sobbing to us and telling us how she has to go to food banks, and how it is so demeaning to have to do so. So we took her a car load of groceries. She went through the bags and complained that we didn't get anything she liked. She shrugged and said she would take the groceries to her church and give them away.

I would say that was a work of the flesh and accomplished nothing. It may have even hindered the work of the Spirit to show the woman her state...expectant and entitled.

Yet I have experienced the work of the Spirit: once when a mother was out in public by her car. Her child was in the back seat. The woman was standing over the little girl screaming and hitting her. The Spirit moved me automatically toward the car. The mother stopped screaming at the little girl. The whole situation froze and the anger fled. Rather than condemn the mother, the Spirit rose up and offered love. I comforted the little girl which was so upset she threw up at my feet. Then I showed love to the mother. Comforting her frustration. She didn't speak English. Her face was bright red with shame and embarrassment. I walked away, knowing love had convicted her. The Spirit made it clear the conviction she felt that someone saw, was enough.

If I had to give an answer to your question: I would say the Spirit is not concerned with the temporal things we put importance on. Things of the flesh and its comfort. When the Spirit moves it is always for the Kingdoms' sake, not ours. Things that will last through the Fire. That is not groceries. That is not our money.

Bind the tares in bundles and send them into the fire. What fire? Paul pulled from the fire. What fire?

There comes a unquenchable fire...where the worm dieth not. Where there is no saving blood of the Lamb; Jesus Christ who on the cross referred to himself as "a worm".

Hell without hope...
Mark 9:44 KJV
[44] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[amadeus]

My question was how is a person to know whether they are led by the spirit or just by their wanting to do a good work because someone wants them too.

About 4 years ago I was in a church Sunday School that my wife wanted to go to when the class decided to take up food and household items like toilet paper and paper towels, etc. This sounded good so the class did it for a single mom with 3 children.

About 8 weeks later we were informed that welfare was giving this Mom money to buy those items and we were to stop doing it. WHY! Because she was taking our food and then taking the money she got from welfare to buy her drugs on which she had just missed death by a drug overdose.


--- Needless to say the class never saw this result.

So back to my question of which some refused to answer by dancing all around it and seem to question as to why I asked it.

Sometimes my friend, while being led by the Spirit results are seen such as you describe. God sometimes wants us to do things that puzzle us and confound us because we do not see the good in them. We should then recall this verse:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

On another thread on this forum a member asked why Jesus was led by the Spirit to the mountain top to be tempted by satan. Sometimes we are led into difficult or even seemingly impossible places in order to grow in God or to complete something in us that is incomplete. He is watching our hearts even while we may be watching for something we would recognize as a positive result. What is in our heart through the whole thing could be what God wanted to see anyway. We need for our ways to line up with His Way.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sometimes my friend, while being led by the Spirit results are seen such as you describe. God sometimes wants us to do things that puzzle us and confound us because we do not see the good in them.

ha, man, those are hard lessons to learn. Praying for wisdom is likely to bring a lot of pain, and if you respect a cast lot or honor a little kid's notion of what should be done in a situation, you are without a doubt going to be sorry in the short term lol, almost without fail i guess. When i hear "God must hate me," then i know that person is just as likely to be seeking, and learning.

 

[Helen]

My question was how is a person to know whether they are led by the spirit or just by their wanting to do a good work because someone wants them too.

About 4 years ago I was in a church Sunday School that my wife wanted to go to when the class decided to take up food and household items like toilet paper and paper towels, etc. This sounded good so the class did it for a single mom with 3 children.

About 8 weeks later we were informed that welfare was giving this Mom money to buy those items and we were to stop doing it. WHY! Because she was taking our food and then taking the money she got from welfare to buy her drugs on which she had just missed death by a drug overdose.


--- Needless to say the class never saw this result.

So back to my question of which some refused to answer by dancing all around it and seem to question as to why I asked it.

My answer is ‘ by hearing’ ....this will probably sound hyper religious....but I don’t know how else to say it ..but ..I usually know when I am doing something “ by the Spirit” and when it is really
“just me” doing something which 'I' think is a good thing.
I believe if we live sensitive to the Holy Spirit, we do get that ‘inner witness’ of peace ..when it’s God.
Yep, told you it would sound hyper spiritual

 

[twinc]

no , obviously not...but many people have no idea at all why they do it!! Back in 1964 I had no clue why our minister told us to be baptized! Only years later did I understand the 'why'.

is that so - why not tell us the 'why' as it seems not many seem to know - I will be surprised if you are not one of them and really do know - twinc