The In Christ Doctrine

[H. Richard]

I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.

Noah was told by God to build an Ark. It was built by human hands (Noah’s hands). The waters of God‘s wrath in the flood did not touch Noah and those with him. Noah, by his choice, obeyed God and went into the Ark he had built. --- The waters of the flood were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people. That does not mean that Noah was sinless. It means Noah believed what God told him.

Today there is another Ark. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch them.

Jesus Christ is OUR ARK, and just as those in Noah's Ark were kept from the waters of the flood, we who are placed ""in Christ,"" by God, are kept from the judgment of the law. If we are not ""in Christ"" the law condemns us.

I believe what Paul said when he penned the words ""in Christ."" I also believe that we are placed ""in Christ"" by God. It is an operation of the Holy Spirit (God).

 

[bbyrd009]

Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw,
the workmanship of each person will become evident, for the day of judgment will show what it is,
because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's action.

 

[Helen]

@H. Richard Well said...excellent post...bless you.

@bbyrd009 As I read those verses you posted they relate to our Christian walk and life in Christ...
What H.Richard is posting on is in reference to our position in Christ.
Two very different things.
We need the balance of both.
As I see it, we cannot fulfill our daily life and walk in Christ, unless we understand full what our spiritual position is.

To me...the people I have met which struggle in their lives are the ones who come under some temptation or attack of the enemy...but do not fight that from their FIRM position "In Christ".
That is one thing I thank my dad for...he was a strong "position" man.
I think you will find that the most secure Christians are the ones that can't be blown sideways so easily because the are rooted in their spiritual position...even though their 'feet' aren't walking perfectly yet.
My two cents

 

[bbyrd009]

I think you will find that the most secure Christians are the ones that can't be blown sideways so easily because the are rooted in their spiritual position...even though their 'feet' aren't walking perfectly yet.

to this i would say that God has a way of uprooting trees, and your description is also apt for someone "sure in their own mind," which can be taken two ways. And, we even recognize those who are "sanctimonious," or demand that their perspective is the only right way to see, as being blind in a certain way.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Be sure in your own mind" can also be a joke, see, a poking-fun TIC thing

 

[bbyrd009]

I also believe that we are placed ""in Christ"" by God.

yes, but who is "we?"

 

[twinc]

to this i would say that God has a way of uprooting trees, and your description is also apt for someone "sure in their own mind," which can be taken two ways. And, we even recognize those who are "sanctimonious," or demand that their perspective is the only right way to see, as being blind in a certain way.

or how about if being blinded ourselves we cannot distinguish light from darkness - twinc

 

[Helen]

yes, but who is "we?"

No, you are missing the whole point. When we become born again, converted, saved , or whatever term you use...we are then "in Christ" ...water baptism is just a picture of it...we are buried with him ( in water) and raised "in Him" in new life. Baptism is just a picture of what has happened in the spirit.

Many Christians do not grasp the truth of this, so when tested or tempted they think they are alone...instead of saying to the devil..." Oh it's only you...go away, I am "In Christ Jesus" ..."I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God."

 

[twinc]

No, you are missing the whole point. When we become born again, converted, saved , or whatever term you use...we are then "in Christ" ...water baptism is just a picture of it...we are buried with him ( in water) and raised "in Him" in new life. Baptism is just a picture of what has happened in the spirit.

Many Christians do not grasp the truth of this, so when tested or tempted they think they are alone...instead of saying to the devil..." Oh it's only you...go away, I am "In Christ Jesus" ..."I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God."

baptism surely not just a picture imho - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

or how about if being blinded ourselves we cannot distinguish light from darkness - twinc

yes, although note that we perceive kids as being "blind" to things all of the time, and do not judge them for it, so even there perceptions are being manipulated, and we are invited to feel maybe superior to this, if that is what is in our hearts.

 

[Helen]

baptism surely not just a picture imho - twinc

no , obviously not...but many people have no idea at all why they do it!! Back in 1964 I had no clue why our minister told us to be baptized! Only years later did I understand the 'why'.

 

[bbyrd009]

No, you are missing the whole point. When we become born again, converted, saved , or whatever term you use...we are then "in Christ"

so you say, but i note many will cry "Lord, Lord." How might we discern between the two groups?

...water baptism is just a picture of it...we are buried with him ( in water) and raised "in Him" in new life. Baptism is just a picture of what has happened in the spirit.

i agree that it is supposed to be, yes, but not that that is what it really ends up being in practice.

Many Christians do not grasp the truth of this

right--at least not in the moment, where we can see. Most do eventually, i think.

 

[Helen]

so you say, but i note many will cry "Lord, Lord." How might we discern between the two groups?

'WE' do NOT....that is nothing to do with us...that is as the wheat and tare's...that is 'heart business' and only God can see the hearts.

 

[bbyrd009]

'WE' do NOT....that is nothing to do with us...that is as the wheat and tare's...that is 'heart business' and only God can see the hearts.

ok then, very true, so how might i know whether i am one of the first, or one of the second? Might be a better Q i guess.

 

[amadeus]

No, you are missing the whole point. When we become born again, converted, saved , or whatever term you use...we are then "in Christ" ...water baptism is just a picture of it...we are buried with him ( in water) and raised "in Him" in new life. Baptism is just a picture of what has happened in the spirit.

The "in Christ" is rather the place where a person is when he is "in the Spirit". Once he has received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, he could with God's help always be in the Spirit, but all of us have repeatedly quenched the Holy Spirit of God. When we quench the Spirit in us then work of God in us to make us more like His Son is stopped. We will remain at best beasts, unclean or clean, waiting for God's work to be completed within us, but as we look away from Him to our own ways, we hinder the work. We limit the Holy One of Israel who would like to continue and finish the work in us.

Many Christians do not grasp the truth of this, so when tested or tempted they think they are alone...instead of saying to the devil..." Oh it's only you...go away, I am "In Christ Jesus" ..."I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God."

When they fail to use what God has given them, they hinder His work. The worst case scenario is seen in these words:

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

This worst case depicts the dog returning to his vomit or Lot's wife looking back at Sodom.

 

[bbyrd009]

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

did you experience this, A? I'm curious now if every seeker does, or what. How about you, @"ByGrace" ?

 

[H. Richard]

Gal 3:1-7
3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Note on 3, This question should be addressed. Are the children of God made perfect by their works or by faith in His blood that atoned for, paid for their sins

4 Have you suffered so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? —
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
NKJV

I don't see the words, and do works, in verse 6.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't see the words, and do works, in verse 6.

HR, there is a definite sense in which your pov is correct, ok, and i don't mean to imply that you are like wrong or anything there. The words "and do works" are not in v6, no one can disagree. So if you stop reading there, you'll be fine. v12 might give you some problems, so just stop at v11 or whatever, you can put that on a shelf with the other Scripture that is giving you trouble, until such time as you can assimilate it. Or since that comes out wrong, please hear my intent here, as i seriously doubt that you are like some ax-murderer or whatever, trying to justify evil behavior ok.

12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

but on some level, at some point, it should become obvious that there is a diff in someone who keeps to the speed limit and makes the point of bragging about it to everyone v someone who just keeps the limit because it is the right thing to do. Of course we're talking theoreticals here anyway, right, because who here habitually nails the speed limit lol

 

[amadeus]

did you experience this, A? I'm curious now if every seeker does, or what ?

I have gone backward now much to my regret, but not to the very worst place. The very worst place would I believe to be in the blaspheming the Holy Ghost from which there would be no return. I thought for a bit that I'd hit it, but that in itself is a long personal testimony. @"ByGrace" may have read it on another forum at another time. It came to a good end about 15 years ago after about 10 very bad years.

 

[bbyrd009]

I have gone backward now much to my regret, but not to the very worst place. The very worst place would I believe to be in the blaspheming the Holy Ghost from which there would be no return. I thought for a bit that I'd hit it, but that in itself is a long personal testimony. @"ByGrace" may have read it on another forum at another time. It came to a good end about 15 years ago after about 10 very bad years.

ha, God must love you more, i had like 20 lol