The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

[Wrangler]

One must say... I must carry a gun because of some crazy who may shoot up the store. Well, somebody who drives badly can just as also equally kill you and others. What if somebody hits you in the back of the head while your not looking in the store and they use your gun to kill everyone in the store? What if

Playing the 'What if' game changes nothing. I don't own an umbrella for days that are not raining.

 

[Grailhunter]

Why do you open carry? It just makes people nervous. Get a concealed permit.

I do both. I have a concealed carry license and this state does not require either. You never know when the laws change

 

[JohnPaul]

Jesus will return using great violence. No doubt about it. But the saints who follow Him have already lived out their faith.

Anyways, we are not under the Old Testament ways anymore. We don’t sacrifice animals anymore, keep holy days, etcetera. Jesus taught Non-Violence during His earthly ministry. The burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise that Jesus and His followers under the NEW TESTAMENT taught Violent Self Defense. You can point in the Old Testament until the cows come home, but obviously we don’t have to build an Ark like Noah. That applied to him and his time. The same is true with the example you gave.

I mean, how do you reconcile or explain 2 Corinthians 10:4? The short answer is you can’t explain it. You would have to distort it to fit your belief.
This is why encourage you to look at the New Testament only. What did the apostles do when they were beaten, and or when rocks were thrown at them? Did they take up swords to fight back? Do you read about that in the New Testament?

Being Christians we adhere to both the old and New Testament.

So you’re are telling me if someone is harming you or your family, and has a gun and is going to kill you or your entire family and you have a gun on you that you could use to save them and yourself, you would let the murderer, murder or harm you or your entire family instead of protecting your family and yourself, which is your Duty and responsibility, instead of securing the safety of your family by taking him out and saving yourself and family, this is what you’re saying?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"He, he, he, him, his." What are you telling me for? All I ever talk about is the Sabbath, anyway.

My apologies to you before if you found my words offensive of my saying that SDA’s always talk about the Sabbath at every chance they get. But I was merely relaying to you my experience with them (from another forum). It’s nothing personal. It’s just my experience. Maybe you are not that way.

Anyways, merely trying to help you to understand why he said what he did. If you don’t appreciate it, then that’s okay.

I just believe that Christians are to make “the Bible Alone + The Anointing to Understand It” as their sole guide for all matters for faith and practice. If that’s not something you agree with, we can agree to disagree. But I believe it is a basic tenet of being a Christian. Christians should all agree that the Bible Alone + the Anointing should be all that is necessary for our faith and practice. One does not agree with that, and they are not a Christian that I can reason or have a discussion with because my faith rests in God’s Word (the Bible) and the Anointing to Understand It, and nothing else.

Peace be unto you in the Lord.

May God bless you.

 

[Wrangler]

SDA’s always talk about the Sabbath at every chance they get.

What's wrong with that? I love downtime and quiet meditation and think our culture suffers from a lack of it.

 

[Taken]

not just "some nut", but on a WEEKLY basis! your so called "rights" to blow each other away, is just NUTS!

LOL....that’s military, same in UK.

 

[Wrangler]

not just "some nut", but on a WEEKLY basis!

How frequently shall we allow hate speech and people saying offensive things before we require government approval before expressing ourselves?

You seem to value life over liberty. I come from the ‘Give me Liberty or Give Me Death’ type of moderate.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What's wrong with that? I love downtime and quiet meditation and think our culture suffers from a lack of it.

The problem is that we are not under the Old Law (Romans 6:14). We cannot be justified by the Law of Moses (Acts of the Apostles 13:39). Colossians 2:16 makes it clear that we are not to let anyone judge us according to Sabbath days. The New Covenant has made the First Covenant old (Hebrews 8:13). Hebrews 7:12 says the law has changed. Romans 7:6 says, “we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”. In Acts chapter 15: At the Jerusalem council, the apostles addressed the issue about certain Jews were trying to deceive Gentile Christians into thinking they had to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses (Which would include the Sabbath) otherwise they would not be saved. The apostles concluded that they gave the Gentile Christians no such commandment (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

This is not the same thing as the laws of Christ. For Paul said, “To those without the law I became like one without the law” (not being without the law of God, but under the law(s) of Christ) (See 1 Corinthians 9:21). Paul said if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Then Paul says if you seek to be justified by the law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). Meaning, the Old Law is no longer a requirement (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses), but the many commands that come from Jesus Christ and His followers in the New Testament are a requirement (after we are first saved by God’s grace and mercy).

Anyways, some SDA’s I read about online believe that you eventually have to accept the Saturday Sabbath or you will not be saved. They believe that you can be saved now, but there will be a time when you must come to accept worshiping on the Saturday Sabbath or you will not be saved. Some SDA’s even see Sunday worship as the mark of the beast. So when I have talked with SDA’s on another forum, and we were talking about some other Christian topic, they would keep changing the topic to talk about the Sabbath as if that was the most important thing ever. No doubt because some of them think it will one day be a salvation issue for you. But they should talk about Jesus Christ who is our real rest. For Christ is everything. For it is Christ in you, the hope of glory who saves (Colossians 1:27), and it’s not the Sabbath. The Sabbath was a requirement under the Old Covenant. But we are not under the Old Covenant. We are under the New Covenant with new commands.

 

[Wrangler]

The problem is that we are not under the Old Law (Romans 6:14).

Why is that a problem? I do not believe the Son of God came to be executed on a tree to allow us to violate the 10C with impunity.

Anyways, some SDA’s I read about online believe that you eventually have to accept the Saturday Sabbath or you will not be saved.

To quote Thomas Jefferson, 'such beliefs neither pick my pocket nor break my bones.'

But they should talk about Jesus Christ who is our real rest.

I don't know what you mean about real test in comparison to violating the 10C to test God's Grace?

The way it was explained to me is that BC, man tried to uphold the law on his own power; AD men have Supernatural, Divine Grace to follow the Will of God without straining every muscle fighting one's own nature.

 

[BarneyFife]

My apologies to you before if you found my words offensive of my saying that SDA’s always talk about the Sabbath at every chance they get. But I was merely relying to you my experience with them (from another forum). It’s nothing personal. It’s just my experience. Maybe you are not that way.

Anyways, merely trying to help you to understand why he said what he did. If you don’t appreciate it, then that’s okay.

I just believe that Christians are to make “the Bible Alone + The Anointing to Understand It” as the sole guide for all matters for faith and practice. If that’s not something you agree with, we can agree to disagree. But I believe it is a basic tenet of being a Christian. Christians should all agree that the Bible Alone + the Anointing should be all that is necessary for our faith and practice. One does not agree with that, and they are not a Christian that I can reason or have a discussion with because my faith rests in God’s Word (the Bible).

Peace be unto you in the Lord.

May God bless you.

It was just a rib, BH; lighten up a little—you'll probably live longer. I'm pretty sure other folks don't take what you say nearly as seriously as you do. Not that what you say has no importance.

You're helping me understand why he said what he did? Do you understand what all is implied here?

I gotta be honest. I never gave any thought to why he said what he did. Mostly because I don't think I have any way of knowing why he said what he did. But I don't object to your opinion about it, either.

Free speech. Gotta love it.

I'm a big boy. My skin's a little thicker than to get bent out of shape over what someone says or thinks about me or what I believe. But if you read back over it you might be able to see that you appear to be doing a little more than just relating an experience. It sounded more like relating trauma. But believe me, it's all good.

And do we really have to "agree to disagree?" I remember a time when folks could just plain disagree and nobody got hurt. Nowadays, people get mortally wounded if somebody has a different favorite dessert than they do. (That was hyperbole—it's ok, Jesus even used it.)

 

[Grailhunter]

Not sure how useful that information could really be. Can there really be 50,000 different ways to interpret the basic tenets of Christianity? There's got to be some duplication in there. Just sayin'.

Absolutely has to be some duplication. It is a complicated topic and you can learn a lot dabbling with it. And just like you, one would wonder how many ways can you interpret the Bible? Well when you start looking into it you find there is so many ways to interpret the Bible it is shocking. It comes down to the finer points of everything. And then if you get some books on the fracturing of the church, you will see how disagreements will split a church / denomination...some times it is personally conflicts within the administration.

Now the math of it is a little complicated but I am going to try. Ok we have two choices mostly two....choice right and choice left.
There no good or bad, just two choices. What are we choosing? For example I have a list of 300 apparent contradictions in the Bible. Now when I was in college they split the list up in 16 sections and handed it to us. Our task was to explain the contradictions or choose which one was right. A lot can be explained but some are just a choice.....right or left is what I am calling it. Now these were college students with resources available to them but regular people are going to choose by what they like or not or choose due to something else they believe.

300 contradictions with no consistency on which way people are going to choose and all of the combination of choices. A person is not always going to choose the right or the left, so they go back and forth independent of the other choices of the other people. So that produces like 27 million possible combinations. Now that is still a sticky wicky because many people do not think that contradictions in the Bible exists, so when presented with contradictions they will generally pick one over the over and explain away the other.

So this is just contradictions...then you have arrangement sets of theological beliefs with every arrangement of beliefs possible. For example; One denomination may believe in baptism and not the bread and wine ritual. Another my believe in both or neither. Then throw in the choice on the need for repentance and what repentance is and then add the definitions of faith and moral beliefs, music or no, arrangement of services and the numbers become endless. No wonder John Calvin broke down and decided that God did it! No choice by people! LOL

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Being Christians we adhere to both the old and New Testament.

So you’re are telling me if someone is harming you or your family, and has a gun and is going to kill you or your entire family and you have a gun on you that you could use to save them and yourself, you would let the murderer, murder or harm you or your entire family instead of protecting your family and yourself, which is your Duty and responsibility, instead of securing the safety of your family by taking him out and saving yourself and family, this is what you’re saying?

First, you did not read or understand my quoting of Romans 8:28. It says: All things work together for good to those who love God. You also did not read or understand my quoting of 2 Corinthians 10:4. It says: “The weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood]” (2 Corinthians 10:4 AMP). Second, gun carrying fans generally assume that I would stand by and do nothing if my family was attacked. Non-Violence does not mean “do nothing.” Not that I believe that such a thing would ever happen because of Romans 8:28, and Psalms 91:10-12, but for the sake of argument, I believe one can act in physical way so as to stop or temporarily distract the attacker in a way that would not harm or kill them while telling one’s family to escape or run. But again. Romans 8:28. Psalms 91:10-12. It’s something that is completely foreign to you. But there have been testimonies of Christians facing violent men with guns and they rebuked in the name of Jesus or praised the Lord Jesus Christ and they were gone.

Three, as for your saying we are under the Old Testament: No. We are not under the Old Testament or Old Covenant anymore. Are you looking for a temple someday so as to sacrifice animals with a priest? Anyways, see my recent post #468.

In any event, whether you agree or disagree, may God bless you.

 

[BarneyFife]

What's wrong with that? I love downtime and quiet meditation and think our culture suffers from a lack of it.

The problem is that we are not under the Old Law (Romans 6:14). We cannot be justified by the Law of Moses (Acts of the Apostles 13:39). Colossians 2:16 makes it clear that we are not to let anyone judge us according to Sabbath days. The New Covenant has made the First Covenant old (Hebrews 8:13). Hebrews 7:12 says the law has changed. Romans 7:6 says, “we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”. In Acts chapter 15: At the Jerusalem council, the apostles addressed the issue about certain Jews were trying to deceive Gentile Christians into thinking they had to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses (Which would include the Sabbath) otherwise they would not be saved. The apostles concluded that they gave the Gentile Christians no such commandment (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

This is not the same thing as the laws of Christ. For Paul said, “To those without the law I became like one without the law” (not being without the law of God, but under the law(s) of Christ) (See 1 Corinthians 9:21). Paul said if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Then Paul says if you seek to be justified by the law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). Meaning, the Old Law is no longer a requirement (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses), but the many commands that come from Jesus Christ and His followers in the New Testament are a requirement (after we are first saved by God’s grace and mercy).

Anyways, some SDA’s I read about online believe that you eventually have to accept the Saturday Sabbath or you will not be saved. They believe that you can be saved now, but there will be a time when you must come to accept worshiping on the Saturday Sabbath or you will not be saved. Some SDA’s even see Sunday worship as the mark of the beast. So when I have talked with SDA’s on another forum, and we were talking about some other Christian topic, they would keep changing the topic to talk about the Sabbath as if that was the most important thing ever. No doubt because some of them think it will one day be a salvation issue for you. But they should talk about Jesus Christ who is our real rest. For Christ is everything. For it is Christ in you, the hope of glory who saves (Colossians 1:27), and it’s not the Sabbath. The Sabbath was a requirement under the Old Covenant. But we are not under the Old Covenant. We are under the New Covenant with new commands.

@Wrangler, Boy, you really pulled his chain, didn't you?

 

[JohnPaul]

First, you did not read or understand my quoting of Romans 8:28. It says: All things work together for good to those who love God. You also did not read or understand my quoting of 2 Corinthians 10:4. It says: “The weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood]” (2 Corinthians 10:4 AMP). Second, gun carrying fanatics generally assume that I would stand by and do nothing if my family was attacked. Non-Violence does not mean “do nothing.” Not that I believe that such a thing would ever happen because of Romans 8:28, and Psalms 91:10-12, but for the sake of argument, I believe one can act in physical way so as to stop or temporarily distract the attacker in a way that would not harm or kill them while telling one’s family to escape or run. But again. Romans 8:28. Psalms 91:10-12. It’s something that is completely foreign to you. But there have been testimonies of Christians facing violent men with guns and they rebuked in the name of Jesus or praised the Lord Jesus Christ and they were gone.

Three, as for your saying we are under the Old Testament: No. We are not under the Old Testament or Old Covenant anymore. Are you looking for a temple someday so as to sacrifice animals with a priest? Anyways, see my recent post #468.

In any event, whether you agree or disagree, may God bless you.

No I read and understood what you said.

 

[Wrangler]

@Wrangler, Boy, you really pulled his chain, didn't you?

His chain demands to be pulled.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Wrangler, Boy, you really pulled his chain, didn't you?

It’s called preaching the Word and relaying to you my account of what SDA’s believe. It’s nothing personal.

 

[BarneyFife]

Absolutely has to be some duplication. It is a complicated topic and you can learn a lot dabbling with it. And just like you, one would wonder how many ways can you interpret the Bible? Well when you start looking into it you find there is so many ways to interpret the Bible. It comes down to the finer points of everything. And then if you get some books on the fracturing of the church, you will see how disagreements will split a church / denomination...some times it is personally conflicts within the administration.

Now the math of it is a little complicated but I am going to try. Ok we have two choices mostly two....choice right and choice left.
There no good or bad, just two choices. What are we choosing? For example I have a list of 300 apparent contradictions in the Bible. Now when I was in college they split the list up in 16 sections and handed it to us. Our task was to explain the contradictions or choose which one was right. A lot can be explained but some are just a choice.....right or left is what I am calling it. Now these were college students with resources available to them but regular people are going to choose by what they like or not or choose due to something else they believe.

300 contradictions with no consistency on which way people are going to choose and all of the combination of choices. A person is not always going to choose the right or the left, so they go back and forth independent of the other choices of the other people. So that produces like 27 million possible combinations. Now that is still a sticky wicky because many people do not think that contradictions in the Bible exists, so when presented with contradictions they will generally pick one over the over and explain away the other.

So this is just contradictions...then you have arrangement sets of theological beliefs with every arrangement of beliefs possible. For example; One denomination may believe in baptism and not the bread and wine ritual. Another my believe in both or neither. Then throw in the choice on the need for repentance and what repentance is and then add the definitions of faith and moral beliefs, music or no, arrangement of services and the numbers become endless. No wonder John Calvin broke down and decided that God did it! No choice by people! LOL

Well, I was careful to say "basic tenets."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So now we are resulting to insults?

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, I was careful to say "basic tenets."

LOL Bellyroll!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I posted Scripture. It is up to folks to read those verses if they are interested in reading and believing the Bible.
I came here on the forums to discuss Scripture and not to receive baseless insults or jabs.