The Jerusalem which is above is the heavenly city of promise which God has prepared for His saints

[Truth7t7]

Hello

It seems to me that many do not know the difference between "Neos" and "Kainos"

Neos is with respect to age, i.e. I brought a "new" {Neos} car, The car is "newly" acquired, and as such it is new to me, however, if I had said I brought a "new" {Kainos} car, then I am indicating the car's condition rather than its age, in other word, the car has been refreshed/refurbished irrespective of the age of the car.

So, in Revelation 21:1-5 we are not taking about a new "young" heaven and earth but rather a renewed/refreshed heaven and earth which is suitable for a refurbished Jerusalem and for God to inhabit with the Saints.

Lexicon :: Strong's H1254 - bārā'​

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create;

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created H1254 the heaven and the earth.

Isa 65:17 - For, behold, I create H1254 new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 65:18 - But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: H1254 for, behold, I create H1254 Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

 

[Truth7t7]

It doesn't say EXCHANGED, it says CHANGED. And that change is contrasted with how God does not change. Is that saying the heavens and earth will not be annihilated and replaced in contrast to God not being annihilated and replaced? No. So, you are completely missing the context of Hebrews 1:10-12. And, your attempt to change Matthew 5:5 to say the meek shall inherit the new earth is embarrassing. You should not change scripture like that. It says "the earth". Instead of changing the text to say what you want it to say, you should understand that it's saying the meek shall inherit the earth made new, which is what the new earth will be. HUGE SMILES!

Lexicon :: Strong's H1254 - bārā'​

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create;

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created H1254 the heaven and the earth.

Isa 65:17 - For, behold, I create H1254 new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 65:18 - But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: H1254 for, behold, I create H1254 Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The present heavens and earth will be dissolved by the Lord's fire in final judgement as 2 Peter 3:10-13 clearly teaches to your denial of this biblical fact

I don't deny that. But, I believe it will be the entire earth surface rather than the entire earth. But, you deny the biblical fact that they will be changed (Hebrews 1:12).

We go to Revelation 21:1-5 below and it clearly tells the reader it's a new heaven and earth, the old heaven and earth are passed away

The old heaven and earth as we know them will pass away, but they will be changed and made new. Either way, we agree that they will be made entirely new, so this discussion is fairly pointless in reality.

Then verse 21:5 below shouts at the reader that God's makes all things new, a new creation

We go even farther to Isaiah 65:17 and God screams at the reader (Behold I "CREATE" New Heavens and a New Earth) a completely new creation

And then we go to Hebrews 1:10-12 where it talks about them being changed and where Matthew 5:5 talks about the meek inheriting the earth and Truth7t7 disappears because he cherry picks scripture and isn't interested in making sure all of the scriptures can be reconciled together.

The same Greek word translated as "changed" in Hebrews 1:12 (allassō - Strong's G236) is the one used to describe the change of our bodies in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. So, do you see the changing of our bodies as being a case of our bodies being annihilated and then replaced by entirely different, new bodies?

Paul referred to each born again believer as "a new creation" in 2 Corinthians 5:17. Does that mean we each were annihilated and replaced by someone else?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let's focus on the NEW part since that is the topic of discussion. Is the city new or renewed?

Something being called new can refer to something that has been renewed. Born again believers are called "a new creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17) in a spiritual sense, but that doesn't mean our souls and/or spirits are annihilated and replaced with new souls and/or spirits.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't deny that. But, I believe it will be the entire earth surface rather than the entire earth. But, you deny the biblical fact that they will be changed (Hebrews 1:12).


The old heaven and earth as we know them will pass away, but they will be changed and made new. Either way, we agree that they will be made entirely new, so this discussion is fairly pointless in reality.


And then we go to Hebrews 1:10-12 where it talks about them being changed and where Matthew 5:5 talks about the meek inheriting the earth and Truth7t7 disappears because he cherry picks scripture and isn't interested in making sure all of the scriptures can be reconciled together.

The same Greek word translated as "changed" in Hebrews 1:12 (allassō - Strong's G236) is the one used to describe the change of our bodies in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. So, do you see the changing of our bodies as being a case of our bodies being annihilated and then replaced by entirely different, new bodies?

Paul referred to each born again believer as "a new creation" in 2 Corinthians 5:17. Does that mean we each were annihilated and replaced by someone else?

It's A Completly New Creation. (Absolutely To Create)​

Lexicon :: Strong's H1254 - bārā'​

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create;

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created H1254 the heaven and the earth.

Isa 65:17 - For, behold, I create H1254 new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 65:18 - But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: H1254 for, behold, I create H1254 Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's A Completly New Creation. (Absolutely To Create)​

Lexicon :: Strong's H1254 - bārā'​

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create;

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created H1254 the heaven and the earth.

Isa 65:17 - For, behold, I create H1254 new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 65:18 - But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: H1254 for, behold, I create H1254 Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

I don't deny that the new heavens and new earth are created, but it's in the sense of the current heavens and earth being recreated and changed and not a case of entirely new heavens and a new earth being created out of nothing.

So, you ignore the meaning of the Greek word for "changed" then? You don't see any need to reconcile Isaiah 65:17 with Hebrews 1:12? You think cherry picking scripture is acceptable? It's not. But, if that's the way you want to interpret scripture, I can't stop you.

Tell me, when you were made a new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), were you annihilated and replaced by a different person?

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't deny that the new heavens and new earth are created, but it's in the sense of the current heavens and earth being recreated and changed and not a case of entirely new heavens and a new earth being created out of nothing.

So, you ignore the meaning of the Greek word for "changed" then? You don't see any need to reconcile Isaiah 65:17 with Hebrews 1:12? You think cherry picking scripture is acceptable? It's not. But, if that's the way you want to interpret scripture, I can't stop you.

Tell me, when you were made a new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), were you annihilated and replaced by a different person?

Denial of clear biblical truth, no different than millennialist and their fairy tale kingdom on this earth for 1,000 years, or dispensationalism in their fairy tale pre-trib rapture

To top that off you deny a future great tribulation, a literal human man as (The Beast) and literal prophets returned in the (Two Witnesses)

It's A Completly New Creation. (Absolutely To Create)​

Lexicon :: Strong's H1254 - bārā'​

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create;

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created H1254 the heaven and the earth.

Isa 65:17 - For, behold, I create H1254 new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 65:18 - But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: H1254 for, behold, I create H1254 Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Denial of clear biblical truth, no different than millennialist and their fairy tale kingdom on this earth for 1,000 years, or dispensationalism in their fairy tale pre-trib rapture

To top that off you deny a future great tribulation, a literal human man as (The Beast) and literal prophets returned in the (Two Witnesses)

It's A Completly New Creation. (Absolutely To Create)​

Lexicon :: Strong's H1254 - bārā'​

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create;

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created H1254 the heaven and the earth.

Isa 65:17 - For, behold, I create H1254 new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 65:18 - But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: H1254 for, behold, I create H1254 Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

There is enough hot air coming from you to keep a hot air balloon afloat. Maybe even the Good Year blimp. Let me know if you have anything to say that you haven't already said a thousand times. But, not a literal thousand times, of course. I'm still not fully convinced that you are a human being rather than a robot that is programmed to repeat the same words over and over again.

By the way, I do NOT deny a future great tribulation. As an Amill, I see Satan's little season as being a time of great tribulation.

Oh, and nice job of avoiding my question about us being made a new creation (2 Cor 5:17) when we are saved and whether that involves us being annihilated and replaced by a different person. You are very good at being evasive, I'll give you that.

 

[Truth7t7]

By the way, I do NOT deny a future great tribulation. As an Amill, I see Satan's little season as being a time of great tribulation.

You deny that the great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 is future, you believe this took place in the reformed preterist 70AD

Are you now stating there are "Multiple Great Tribulations" in dual fulfillments?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You deny that the great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 is future, you believe this took place in the reformed preterist 70AD

Are you now stating there are "Multiple Great Tribulations" in dual fulfillments?

LOL. No, of course not, silly. Why would I argue that after having argued against dual fulfillments?

I believe that Matthew 24:15-21 is a parallel passage to Luke 21:20-24, which means it's about God's wrath that came against Jerusalem in 70 AD. The future great tribulation, in contrast, is global rather than local, is not in relation to God's wrath, and is rather in relation to Satan's little season when there is increased persecution, apostasy, deception and wickedness before Christ's return at the end of the age (Matthew 24:9-13, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, Revelation 20:7-9).

 

[ewq1938]

It is Kainos.

The Renewed Jerusalem replaces what came before it.

Wrong. NJ is new, not a renewed version of OJ. Kainos can mean new or renewed but we know NJ is not a renewed city.

 

[Jay Ross]

Wrong. NJ is new, not a renewed version of OJ. Kainos can mean new or renewed but we know NJ is not a renewed city.

You are welcome to believe what you want. You are welcome.