The Jerusalem which is above is the heavenly city of promise which God has prepared for His saints

[Scott Downey]

There is a city that God has prepared for His saints. And it is the heavenly Jerusalem. which is not of this earth, that is our destiny and where we go when we die.

Hebrews 11, those of the OT, they all died in faith , but none of them received the promise until the Christ came as they could not be perfected without Christ.

Hebrews 11:16
But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews 12:22
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

The Heavenly Hope​

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off [e]were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
***************************
But now they have received the promise as it is fulfilled in Christ and now Christ is seated at the right hand of God
Jesus said He would build His CHURCH. This is all part of the New Covenant begun by Christ, those who are in His church are registered in heaven, and not anyone else. But the OT saints would be also brought into His church after they died, but they had to wait for us as they could not be perfected without us, the church of Christ..
***************************
1 Peter 3
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
***************************
With the resurrection of Jesus Christ the way into the heavenly city is now opened to us all, those who died before in the OC have received the promise.

All the OT prophecies point to the kingdom of God and reigning from Jerusalem. But that kingdom's final state is not of this earth.
Jerusalem which is above is free, while the one of this earth is in bondage.

Galatians 4
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

 

[grafted branch]

There is a city that God has prepared for His saints. And it is the heavenly Jerusalem. which is not of this earth, that is our destiny and where we go when we die.

Hebrews 11, those of the OT, they all died in faith , but none of them received the promise until the Christ came as they could not be perfected without Christ.

Hebrews 11:16
But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews 12:22
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

The Heavenly Hope​

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off [e]were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
***************************
But now they have received the promise as it is fulfilled in Christ and now Christ is seated at the right hand of God
Jesus said He would build His CHURCH. This is all part of the New Covenant begun by Christ, those who are in His church are registered in heaven, and not anyone else. But the OT saints would be also brought into His church after they died, but they had to wait for us as they could not be perfected without us, the church of Christ..
***************************
1 Peter 3
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
***************************
With the resurrection of Jesus Christ the way into the heavenly city is now opened to us all, those who died before in the OC have received the promise.

All the OT prophecies point to the kingdom of God and reigning from Jerusalem. But that kingdom's final state is not of this earth.
Jerusalem which is above is free, while the one of this earth is in bondage.

Galatians 4
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

Where is heavenly Jerusalem located? Some people say it’s not in new heaven/new earth because that hasn’t been created yet, but if it’s in old heaven/old earth then it passes away per Revelation 21:1.

What is your opinion, was the heavenly Jerusalem and new heaven/new earth all created at the same time?

 

[Scott Downey]

Where is heavenly Jerusalem located? Some people say it’s not in new heaven/new earth because that hasn’t been created yet, but if it’s in old heaven/old earth then it passes away per Revelation 21:1.

What is your opinion, was the heavenly Jerusalem and new heaven/new earth all created at the same time?

The New Jerusalem is currently in Heaven with God.
The same heaven as was in the beginning with God.

We get a new heaven and new earth in the future, We can know we do not have such yet, as the New Jerusalem has not yet descended onto the earth. This earth still has plenty of wickedness coursing through it.

AND Satan and his angels-demons are not yet cast into the lake of fire.

 

[grafted branch]

The New Jerusalem is currently in Heaven with God.
The same heaven as was in the beginning with God.

We get a new heaven and new earth in the future, We can know we do not have such yet, as the New Jerusalem has not yet descended onto the earth. This earth still has plenty of wickedness coursing through it.

AND Satan and his angels-demons are not yet cast into the lake of fire.

Yes, we know New Jerusalem descends but if it’s in OHOE then OHOE doesn’t completely pass away, the New Jerusalem part is spared and continues on into the NHNE.

Or the other view is that NHNE (an entirely new creation) was created when New Jerusalem was created and it exists while OHOE exists then when OHOE passes away New Jerusalem and NHNE “descend”.

 

[Truth7t7]

Where is heavenly Jerusalem located? Some people say it’s not in new heaven/new earth because that hasn’t been created yet, but if it’s in old heaven/old earth then it passes away per Revelation 21:1.

What is your opinion, was the heavenly Jerusalem and new heaven/new earth all created at the same time?

John 14:1-3KJV
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[grafted branch]

John 14:1-3KJV
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Excellent verses. I can see that Jesus went to prepare a place just after the cross but I don’t see any other verses that describe Him creating a NHNE. If it’s took six days of work to create the first heaven and earth then it’s reasonable to think it would take a similar amount of time to create a NHNE.

When do you see the NHNE being created?

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes, we know New Jerusalem descends but if it’s in OHOE then OHOE doesn’t completely pass away, the New Jerusalem part is spared and continues on into the NHNE.

Or the other view is that NHNE (an entirely new creation) was created when New Jerusalem was created and it exists while OHOE exists then when OHOE passes away New Jerusalem and NHNE “descend”.

Well, did Abraham pass away and will not be remembered?
Was Abraham old earth and old heaven.
I think of earth and heaven as containers of things God has done.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Parable of the Dragnet​

47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

51 [d]Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?”

They said to Him, “Yes, [e]Lord.”

52 Then He said to them, “Therefore every [f]scribe instructed [g]concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.”

This age is not over yet as v 49 is still in the future.

 

[grafted branch]

Well, did Abraham pass away and will not be remembered?
Was Abraham old earth and old heaven.
I think of earth and heaven as containers of things God has done.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Abraham will definitely be remembered but I would say as a new creation because he was in Christ.

Here is how the NIV translates

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Abraham will definitely be remembered but I would say as a new creation because he was in Christ.

Here is how the NIV translates

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Spiritually a new creation has an enduring eternal life, yet Abrahan is still honestly, Abraham, just perfected.

 

[Scott Downey]

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [a]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

All these people who have the right to enter into the city of God, they must ALL of them become new creations in Christ, and that included OT saints.
Yes, we shall all be changed at the return of Christ when is the resurrection, OT saints will also be resurrected together with us. We get a new glorified body, and the changes are ongoing, but some are more so than others. The change into being a new creation does not destroy us, it simply changes us into perfection.

I view it as being transferred out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of His dear Son.

 

[grafted branch]

This age is not over yet as v 49 is still in the future.

There is the possibility that OHOE alines with the old covenant and NHNE alines with the new covenant. The old covenant was no longer valid after the cross but that age didn’t actually vanish until sometime later.

We can see an overlap of the two covenants even though only one covenant was valid at a time. This fits with the idea that NHNE exists at the same time OHOE exists.

 

[Scott Downey]

Preeminence of Christ​

9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and [c]conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

From Colossians 1

 

[grafted branch]

Spiritually a new creation has an enduring eternal life, yet Abrahan is still honestly, Abraham, just perfected.

So you are proposing that some of the OHOE continues to exist into NHNE?

 

[Scott Downey]

So you are proposing that some of the OHOE continues to exist into NHNE?

I think logically it must, but see I don't think the same as you do or say phrase it as you are doing.

We are 'conveyed' into the kingdom of His Love and we are perfected spiritually and given age enduring eternal life

But we never perish, we do not ever cease, we are changed into the image of Christ.

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

 

[Scott Downey]

So when we read our life is hidden with Christ in God, we have not ceased, but we have been changed.
Even though it says we died, we can think of it as dead to this world of sin. We died with Christ.
Think of yourself as dead to sin but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Col 3
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 6:8
The phrase "we died with Christ" refers to the theological concept that believers are spiritually united with Christ in His death and resurrection. This is rooted in scripture, particularly in Romans 6:8, which states, "Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him". This means that through faith, Christians share in the death of Christ, symbolizing the end of their old sinful selves and the beginning of a new life in Him. Essentially, it signifies a transformation and a new identity in Christ, where believers are called to live according to His teachings and example.

Bible Hub+2

 

[grafted branch]

I think logically it must, but see I don't think the same as you do or say phrase it as you are doing.

We are 'conveyed' into the kingdom of His Love and we are perfected spiritually and given age enduring eternal life

But we never perish, we do not ever cease, we are changed into the image of Christ.

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Absolutely agree with we never cease, I suppose it comes down to how we view it. I see a new creation when we become saved and place that in NHNE and you see eternal life as us who are still physically in an OHOE continuing into the NHNE.

I’m not going to argue against your view on this, it does seem to be a reasonable way of looking at it.

 

[Marty fox]

There is a city that God has prepared for His saints. And it is the heavenly Jerusalem. which is not of this earth, that is our destiny and where we go when we die.

Hebrews 11, those of the OT, they all died in faith , but none of them received the promise until the Christ came as they could not be perfected without Christ.

Hebrews 11:16
But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews 12:22
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

The Heavenly Hope​

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off [e]were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
***************************
But now they have received the promise as it is fulfilled in Christ and now Christ is seated at the right hand of God
Jesus said He would build His CHURCH. This is all part of the New Covenant begun by Christ, those who are in His church are registered in heaven, and not anyone else. But the OT saints would be also brought into His church after they died, but they had to wait for us as they could not be perfected without us, the church of Christ..
***************************
1 Peter 3
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
***************************
With the resurrection of Jesus Christ the way into the heavenly city is now opened to us all, those who died before in the OC have received the promise.

All the OT prophecies point to the kingdom of God and reigning from Jerusalem. But that kingdom's final state is not of this earth.
Jerusalem which is above is free, while the one of this earth is in bondage.

Galatians 4
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

The New Jeruslaem is the church the bride of Christ

Revelation 21
2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came [f]to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the [g]bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the [h]great city, the [i]holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Ephesians 5

Marriage—Christ and the Church​

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [g]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, [h]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.


:

 

[Scott Downey]

Absolutely agree with we never cease, I suppose it comes down to how we view it. I see a new creation when we become saved and place that in NHNE and you see eternal life as us who are still physically in an OHOE continuing into the NHNE.

I’m not going to argue against your view on this, it does seem to be a reasonable way of looking at it.

The New Jeruslaem is the church the bride of Christ

Revelation 21
2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came [f]to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the [g]bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the [h]great city, the [i]holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Ephesians 5

Marriage—Christ and the Church​

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [g]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, [h]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.


:

'As a bride adorned'. It is gussied up and very pure, white, lovely, clean and a nice place.

Not a bride, we are the bride of Christ
We will live in that city

What Is the New Jerusalem?

After God remakes the heavens and the earth, the Bible speaks of a city called the "new Jerusalem" coming down out of heaven. It will be an actual

www.blueletterbible.org

Summary

After God makes a new heaven and new earth, then the city of the new Jerusalem will come down from heaven. Its glorious description is given to us in Scripture. Although it will be a city of incomparable beauty, the greatest thing about it is that the Lord will dwell there with His people.