The Jerusalem which is above is the heavenly city of promise which God has prepared for His saints

[Scott Downey]

The Tabernacle (Rev 21:3)​

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them.”

Verse 3 shifts the central focus from Christ as the Bridegroom abiding with His bride the church, to the tabernacle (pre-temple). God’s glorious shekinah glory filled the tabernacle.

God will be pleased to live on earth among His chosen people. He first instructed Moses to set up the tabernacle in the wilderness, but it was only a copy of the heavenly tabernacle (Heb 8:5; 9:24). But then, after all the believers are changed into Christ’s likeness (1 John 3:2-3), His tabernacle doesn’t need to have those curtains and barriers. The temple, with the walls and divisions for the people, is not needed. God will openly dwell among His people, and He shall be their God. We will give up our life of faith and live in God’s immediate glorious presence.

The loud voices assert three times that God’s presence will be among His people. He does not want us to miss the glory of this scene.

Revelation 21:1-3 The New Jerusalem with study questions | Biblical Foundations for Freedom

bffbible.org

 

[Truth7t7]

Your claim is 100% false. Scripture says heaven and earth will be changed and made new, not annihilated and replaced with a different heaven and earth. It is in that sense that God will "create" or recreate the heavens and the earth.

No place does it state in my Holy KJV Bible God will "Recreate" this earth as you add to scripture

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No place does it state in my Holy KJV Bible God will "Recreate" this earth as you add to scripture

I'm not adding to scripture. You are ignoring scripture. Why did you not address the scriptures I referenced?

Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

This says the heavens and earth will be changed. Does the word "change" mean to annhilate and replace with something else entirely? No, it does not. So, address what this passage says instead of ignoring it.

Do you understand that with your view the meek cannot inherit the earth because you have the earth being annihilated when Jesus returns? Please address this instead of ignoring it.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Unless you think the meek will each inherit pieces of the earth?

 

[Truth7t7]

Your claim is 100% false. Scripture says heaven and earth will be changed and made new, not annihilated and replaced with a different heaven and earth. It is in that sense that God will "create" or recreate the heavens and the earth.

Hebrews 1:10 He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same, and your years will never end.

Your view means that you think the meek will not inherit the earth, but instead will inherit a completely different, new earth. Your view contradicts what Jesus taught.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

"I Create"

Not I Recreate Or Refurbish

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[Scott Downey]

"I Create"

Not I Recreate Or Refurbish

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Yes the former has passed away and it is the same in name only.
An entire new reality God creates.
By the way, about changing them like clothes, when an old piece of clothing is changed for new clothing, that means it is worn out.
It is not repaired, re-stained, resown. It is replaced as it perishes.
The new earth and new heaven will have no scars left from the evil that took place in them.
If someone changes worn out old clothes for new ones, they are a different garment.

Hebrews 1
10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”

***************
The objection for a new creation, I have never understood.
God created in 6 days and rested on the seventh, not because He was limited, but that God had made the earth for the sake of man, and it was done in 6 days as an example of how they were to work. For 6 days, and rest on the seventh and contemplate God.

About the meek inheriting the earth, it is also the new earth, and Christ in Rev says the overcomers shall inherit all things.

1 Corinthians 3:21-23
Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours. And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you understand that with your view the meek cannot inherit the earth because you have the earth being annihilated when Jesus returns? Please address this instead of ignoring it.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Unless you think the meek will each inherit pieces of the earth?

View attachment 62692

The meek will inherit the earth, it will be a "New Earth" its not called Sun, Moon, Venus, Saturn, Pluto, but Earth

 

[Scott Downey]

I also don't mind 'recreation' used to describe the new earth. This earth goes away. Then God creates a new earth alongside the pattern of the old one, but it is not the same earth. The new earth I have always thought will be as if this earth had never been corrupted by the devil. Same with heaven. All the evil things are cast into the Lake of Fire, including Hell-Hades. Righteousness dwells on the new earth, earth and heaven are perfected and very good.

Christ destroys the works of the devil, so we get a perfect earth and heaven again which is a new creation.
I figure God liked his creation in the beginning very much to call it very good, and God will very much like the new one too.
God is an overcomer, a winner, not defeated by anything and His will cannot be thwarted, and all the things that have happened have been for the glory of God to be revealed to all in due time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"I Create"

Not I Recreate Or Refurbish

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

You are cherry picking scripture while ignoring the rest. Why are you not addressing the scriptures I showed?

Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

This says the heavens and earth will be changed. You can't just ignore that! But, do you try to reconcile all scripture to avoid contradictions? No, you cherry pick the scripture that you accept and ignore the rest. Does the word "change" mean to annhilate and replace with something else entirely? No, it does not. So, address what this passage says instead of ignoring it.

And then what about Matthew 5:5? Why do you ignore verses like that? Do you understand that with your view the meek cannot inherit the earth because you have the earth being annihilated when Jesus returns? Please address this instead of ignoring it. I asked you this once already and you still ignore it. That shows that you are not willing to have your belief scrutinized against ALL scripture.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Please tell me how you interpret the above verse. How can the meek inherit the earth if it no longer exists after Jesus returns?

The only way to reconcile all of these scriptures without causing a contradiction is to understand that he will be RECREATING/CHANGING the heavens and earth into the new heavens and new earth rather than completely annihilating it and replacing it with an entirely separate earth.

Tell me, do you think the CHANGE of our bodies at the last trumpet involves our bodies being annihilated and replaced with completely new, separate bodies?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The meek will inherit the earth, it will be a "New Earth" its not called Sun, Moon, Venus, Saturn, Pluto, but Earth

Lame answer! It does not say they will inherit the new earth, it says they will inherit the earth. This earth. Stop changing scripture! They will inherit this earth made new (the new earth).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I also don't mind 'recreation' used to describe the new earth. This earth goes away. Then God creates a new earth alongside the pattern of the old one, but it is not the same earth. The new earth I have always thought will be as if this earth had never been corrupted by the devil. Same with heaven. All the evil things are cast into the Lake of Fire, including Hell-Hades. Righteousness dwells on the new earth, earth and heaven are perfected and very good.

Christ destroys the works of the devil, so we get a perfect earth and heaven again which is a new creation.
I figure God liked his creation in the beginning very much to call it very good, and God will very much like the new one too.
God is an overcomer, a winner, not defeated by anything and His will cannot be thwarted, and all the things that have happened have been for the glory of God to be revealed to all in due time.

A born again Christian is described as "a new creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17). Of course, that's spiritually speaking. But, does that involve our spirit being annihilated and replaced with an entirely new spirit, or does it involve our spirit being changed?

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes the former has passed away and it is the same in name only.
An entire new reality God creates.

I Agree 100%, a completely new creation as has been shown several times

Scott all believers will pass through the Lord's fire in final judgement, the unsaved wicked will get caught in it for eternity (Lake Of Fire)

The believers works will be refined and purified, as the Bible teaches in many places, on the other side of the Lord's last day fire will be the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Every Man's Work Will Be Judged By The Lord's Last Day Fire, On The Other Side Of This Fire Is The Eternal Kingdom, Where The Righteous Saved Will Have Their Righteous Works On Earth Follow Them Into The Eternal Kingdom In Reward

1 Corinthians 3:13-15KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Revelation 14:13KJV
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

[Truth7t7]

This says the heavens and earth will be changed. You can't just ignore that!

They will be changed, this old decaying earth will pass away, and the eternal new earth will take its place, if that isn't a change then what is, Big Smiles!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes the former has passed away and it is the same in name only.
An entire new reality God creates.
By the way, about changing them like clothes, when an old piece of clothing is changed for new clothing, that means it is worn out.
It is not repaired, re-stained, resown. It is replaced as it perishes.
The new earth and new heaven will have no scars left from the evil that took place in them.
If someone changes worn out old clothes for new ones, they are a different garment.

Hebrews 1
10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”

It's not talking about changing old clothes for new ones, it's talking about cleaning the current clothes and making them like new.

Notice how it contrasts the heavens and earth being changed with how God does not change. Is that saying the heavens and earth will be annihilated and replaced but God is the same and will not be annihilated and replaced? No, it's saying that God doesn't change. But, the heavens and earth will change. Dramatically, sure, but they will not be annihilated. They will be changed/recreated. Our bodies will be changed as well, Is that a case of our bodies being annihilated and replaced by different bodies? No.

***************
The objection for a new creation, I have never understood.

You should understand it because I'm showing exactly why I object to it. Even if you disagree, it should not be a mystery as to why I'm objecting to your understanding of what that means. I don't object to the idea of everything being made new, but scripture says that involves change/renewal, not complete annihilation and replacement.

God created in 6 days and rested on the seventh, not because He was limited, but that God had made the earth for the sake of man, and it was done in 6 days as an example of how they were to work. For 6 days, and rest on the seventh and contemplate God.

About the meek inheriting the earth, it is also the new earth, and Christ in Rev says the overcomers shall inherit all things.

1 Corinthians 3:21-23
Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours. And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

It does not say the meek shall inherit the new earth. You are trying to change the text. If they will inherit a completely separate earth from this one then it would say that they will inherit the new earth because that is what the place where we will spend eternity is called. By saying they will inherit the earth, it has to be this earth. That doesn't mean they will inherit the earth as we know it, though. It will be this earth after being changed dramatically and renewed by fire, resulting in the new earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They will be changed, this old decaying earth will pass away, and the eternal new earth will take its place, if that isn't a change then what is, Big Smiles!

It doesn't say EXCHANGED, it says CHANGED. And that change is contrasted with how God does not change. Is that saying the heavens and earth will not be annihilated and replaced in contrast to God not being annihilated and replaced? No. So, you are completely missing the context of Hebrews 1:10-12. And, your attempt to change Matthew 5:5 to say the meek shall inherit the new earth is embarrassing. You should not change scripture like that. It says "the earth". Instead of changing the text to say what you want it to say, you should understand that it's saying the meek shall inherit the earth made new, which is what the new earth will be. HUGE SMILES!

 

[Truth7t7]

It doesn't say EXCHANGED, it says CHANGED. And that change is contrasted with how God does not change. Is that saying the heavens and earth will not be annihilated and replaced in contrast to God not being annihilated and replaced? No. So, you are completely missing the context of Hebrews 1:10-12. And, your attempt to change Matthew 5:5 to say the meek shall inherit the new earth is embarrassing. You should not change scripture like that. It says "the earth". Instead of changing the text to say what you want it to say, you should understand that it's saying the meek shall inherit the earth made new, which is what the new earth will be. HUGE SMILES!

The present heavens and earth will be dissolved by the Lord's fire in final judgement as 2 Peter 3:10-13 clearly teaches to your denial of this biblical fact

We go to Revelation 21:1-5 below and it clearly tells the reader it's a new heaven and earth, the old heaven and earth are passed away

Then verse 21:5 below shouts at the reader that God's makes all things new, a new creation

We go even farther to Isaiah 65:17 and God screams at the reader (Behold I "CREATE" New Heavens and a New Earth) a completely new creation

Will you continue to falsely teach that this present earth is "Refurbished" and used again by God?

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

It seems to me that many do not know the difference between "Neos" and "Kainos"

Neos is with respect to age, i.e. I brought a "new" {Neos} car, The car is "newly" acquired, and as such it is new to me, however, if I had said I brought a "new" {Kainos} car, then I am indicating the car's condition rather than its age, in other word, the car has been refreshed/refurbished irrespective of the age of the car.

So, in Revelation 21:1-5 we are not taking about a new "young" heaven and earth but rather a renewed/refreshed heaven and earth which is suitable for a refurbished Jerusalem and for God to inhabit with the Saints.

 

[ewq1938]

Hello

It seems to me that many do not know the difference between "Neos" and "Kainos"

Neos is with respect to age, i.e. I brought a "new" {Neos} car, The car is "newly" acquired, and as such it is new to me, however, if I had said I brought a "new" {Kainos} car, then I am indicating the car's condition rather than its age, in other word, the car has been refreshed/refurbished irrespective of the age of the car.

Yet kainos is used in the next verse and it clearly refers to a brand new Jerusalem, not the old city renewed since this one come from heaven and cannot be related to the old city.


Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[Jay Ross]

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Have I missed something? Is the reference to Jerusalem in the above verse to a place or to the Saints who will become the New Jerusalem Temple to worship God with Her Husband?

 

[ewq1938]

Have I missed something? Is the reference to Jerusalem in the above verse to a place or to the Saints who will become the New Jerusalem Temple to worship God with Her Husband?

Let's focus on the NEW part since that is the topic of discussion. Is the city new or renewed?

 

[Jay Ross]

Let's focus on the NEW part since that is the topic of discussion. Is the city new or renewed?

It is Kainos.



The Renewed Jerusalem replaces what came before it. In coming down from heaven, it comes a the Bride of Christ.

The verse metaphorical and is not necessarily literal as you seem to want to treat this verse.