Someday, you're come to realize you don't need to demoinze others, but can courageously actually see them. Not just me, but Catholics, other Protestants, non-Christians, and everyone.
The Jesuits ... What is their role? Part 1 and 2
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There is such a thing as demons, you know.
And exposing those who are influenced by them is a function of the church according to Revelation 2:1-7. The Lord Jesus even praises the Ephesian church for doing so.
When I see articles like the opening post, I never believe them without serious careful reseach; and even when an article contains some elements of truth, I don't give it much importance when the events are so long ago. After all, I do believe in the power of forgiveness -- so why be alarmed about things from the past, things which aren't true now.
When I see articles like the opening post, I see someone trying to stir up trouble. I tend to "demonize" them in my mnd more than the people they are attacking. I see nothing of the Holy Spirit in that opening post. Nothing. And I am weary of people who say they must be "honest" so they can't be loving.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
I can see the hate, wrath and strife in the opening post. It's here now. I don't need to consult history books to see if I can figure out what really happened in the past. I see an unrepentant tongue spewing its poison, eager to pass on rumors of the worst sort. I see an evil imagination, eager to believe the worst about others. and to spread fear. I see nothing of the Holy Spirit.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
I tend to believe the person eager to cast the first stone to stir up animosity and division has more guilt than the person he accuses. I cannot see any Love of the Christ Spirit being manifested in that opening post. We should all be careful we are not repeating lies that others have told. It is one thing to believe a lie when someone tells us; it's another to repeat it.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Perhaps we do not all have the same Christ, perhaps we do not.
James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Are you trying to deny HISTORICAL FACTS about the evil deeds of the Jesuits? This is quite apart from the false doctrines of the RCC.
People need to always make a clear distinction between "Catholics" (the adherents of Catholicism) and the Catholic religion and its clergy (the RCC). The Vatican and its clergy have been deceiving their poor adherents for ages.
There's a difference between honestly discussing differences in beliefs, versus ignorantly bashing/de-humanizing/demoizing others.
For example, I'm not Catholic. I very much disagree with some Catholic beliefs. But I can still acknowledge Catholic individuals whom love Christ and are strive to follow Him, and try my best to understand what each individual believes. I don't need to infer anything against a Catholic person individually or collectively.
Individual Catholics aren't stupid people who m are being deceived by some mustache-twirling head RCC person. Each person is has their own thoughts, study, research, and devotion to Christ.
(Well, there are Catholic individuals whom don't really think things through, but that's the same percentage of people whom exist in any group).
If you think the message to the church of Ephesus is directed at you -- if you place yourself in that church -- you would do well to keep this part in mind, and to seek that first love:
Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Sure. This is the standard response of Catholics when their history is exposed. Nothing new in your denials and accusations of lies and exaggerations.
There is no hatred in warning people about possible danger.
Col 1:28, Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
I consider that every believer ought to behave according to the things that are praiseworthy in the churches (of the Book of Revelation) and not behave according to those things that are given as reprimands.
I do take the command to stay in love with Jesus to heart in my own Christian life.
Rehashing history and condemning people who are long since dead is not warning anyone about anything. Repeating lies, even if you believe them, is not teaching anyone wisdom. Look to yourself with the beam in your own eye before trying to get a splinter out of someone else's. Not one Catholic who knows even a little about his Church is going to be convinced by the rubbish in the OP.
James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Do you say, "I have no need to repent of anything" if you think you are of the church of Ephesus? If you are of the church of Ephesus, the entire message belongs to you. You should not feel free to pick and choose which parts of the message to Ephesus you accept . . . if indeed you are of that church. If you are of another church, why try to apply Ephesus to yourself?
Revelation 11:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
When can we expect to see some evidence of it? I cannot say I agree with Catholics or Mormons; but I can see evidence in some of them that God is at work in their lives. I trust God to lead them where they need to go. As long as they continue in charity, all will end well for them. I do not worry then about Jane Doe or Mungo. I can see how Love is being expressed in them. Let the Spirit continue to lead them. I need not fret about whether all their beliefs are right. I worry about people like you, people who seem to be stalling spiritually -- the motor's running, but the clutch isn't engaged.
I would have left this site long ago if it hadn't been for some people with loving and generous souls. They seem to be in the minority. Most people are more interested in bashing others. I will tell people to their faces, if everyone here was like quietthinker, Enoch111 and you, I would have left this place and brushed the dust off my feet long ago. You people weary me. You think if you can label someone, you can vilify a whole group of people -- and if you can make other people look worse, it might make you feel better about yourselves. It doesn't work. It makes people feel worse about themselves when they're constantly looking for ways to criticize and condemn others.
People need to pray for a new tongue, a pure tongue, a clean tongue. Ask God to restrain the old tongue no man can tame on his own lest its fire spread through the whole body.
James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Inflammatory articles are not meant to instruct anyone. They are meant to stir up strife and condemnation. Can anyone seriously think quietthinker posted that in order to be a peacemaker?
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Correct. The sheep need to be warned about the wolves. There is real spiritual danger in the errors of Catholicism. This is not about those who have been deceived but the deceivers. Indeed Catholics are told to come out of their church, which is a part of Mystery Babylon.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) teaches its adherents that the god of the Muslims -- Allah -- is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- the one true God of Christians (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). THIS IS SERIOUS DECEPTION.
"841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day'
There are four clear errors in this paragraph:
1. Muslims are included in God's plan of salvation. The truth is that only those who obey the Gospel are included in God's plan of salvation. Muslims must turn to Christ as Lord an Saviour in order to be saved. Which means they must repudiate Islam.
2. Muslims profess to hold the faith of Abraham. The truth is that Abraham did not worship Allah but the LORD God Almighty. Yahweh (the LORD) is also the name of Christ, who said to Moses that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose name was I AM THAT I AM (or I AM). He told the Jews of His day that He was "I AM" and if they did not believe this they would die in their sins.
3. Muslims adore the one merciful God. The truth is that Muslims worship the moon god Allah, and Allah condemns the triune Godhead in the Quran. The Quran attacks and rejects the Holy Trinity, the deity of Christ, and the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.
4. Muslims worship mankind's judge on the last day. The Bible tells us that it is Christ who is mankind's Judge (Acts 17:30,31), but Muslims regard Jesus as merely a prophet, and one who is inferior to Mohammad.
Now Pope Francis has been calling Muslims "brothers" over and over again in his public declarations. But they cannot be "brothers" of Christians, since they regard Christians and Jews as infidels who will be consigned to Hell. Now if this is not a grand deception, we do not know the meaning of deception.
I hold that I am a part of the church of Jesus Christ period; and therefore I seek to exemplify all of those virtues that are exalted by Christ in all of his statements to the seven churches of Revelation.
They must believe in the real and living Christ (2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (kjv)); they must not preach a different gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) and they must believe the true gospel (in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) to be saved.
What passes for charity may be only someone's idea of it; and if it is not based on the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (per Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5), it is not charity at all but a nice feel-good warm fuzzy that will kill you in the end.
You should. Because sound doctrine is important, even salvational to the person believing in it:
1Ti 4:16, Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Can a man bring justified charges against unacceptable behaviour and attitudes and not be accused of being unloving?
The broad road attempts to straddle the fence and dance at both parties simultaneously.
Defending an approach that destroys peoples body soul and spirit while making the phylacteries wide, advertising gifts with trumpets and saying long public prayers is a practice as old as the everlasting hills.
You are now making no sense at all. No one can belong to all seven churches. The churches are different and the messages are different.
As well, if you want to exemply all the virtues described in the messages to the seven churches, you cannot turn around and say the warnings cannot possibly apply to you.
And you are the judge of this?
I think I can recognize the signs that indicate someone probably has the Holy Spirit. Starting contentions is not a sign of it.
Sound doctrine with faith in Jesus leads to sound practices and good works, thus to salvation.
How does attacking the alleged misdeeds of Jesuits long dead lead anyone today to sound doctrine? Let me quote another part from that chapter:
1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
I find it hard to think anyone could believe the "fables" in the opening post. What did it profit anyone?
Your charges are not justified except in your own mind and others' who enjoy believing the worst about others.
And I'd say you're attempting to exalt yourself by running other people down. You remind me of the Jewish religious leaders who attacked Jesus. They were saying, "Look at him and how evil he is -- and we are the good people who are warning you about him."
A disciple of Christ can advocate Truth and His goodness, sans any bashing.
Holocaust deniers also have their 'justifications' as do all oppressive systems.....would you expect a system that practices murder, extortion and deception of all kinds to refrain from lying?
Ultimately, all will be required to render account of their words and actions to him who judges justly.
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I have belonged to every church except for Thyatira; and may actually a part of that one now as an overcomer..
I accept the warnings as applicable to me, from every church in the book of Revelation; and also seek to exemplify all of the virtues that Jesus exalts in the book of Revelation.
Do you think that there may have been some in Ephesus who heeded Jesus' admonition to return to first love? Do you think that when they did so, they ceased to do those things which had been praised of them by our Lord?
The word of the Lord is the judge of this.
1Th 2:1, For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
1Th 2:2, But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
1Th 2:3, For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
1Th 2:4, But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
1Th 2:5, For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
1Th 2:6, Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
1Th 2:7, But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:
Sounds like the Holy Spirit to me.
yes, this is true; and just like the Catholics and Mormons, they call the people who expose them for their evil deeds, liars.
Sorry, but you're not making sense to me.
Again, you're not making sense to me. If all the messages were meant for everyone, they wouldn't have been set out in the divided way they are in.
I think it safe to assume some heeded and others didn't.
Quite right, so we ought go around saying can judge others that way.
Paul does not say he started the contention. Stephen found himself in contentious situation too. Who was wrong in that situation? I'd say the people who created the contention.
I think it should be clear Paul meant he was operating in a contentious climate and not that he was creating the contention himself. After all, he says in verse 7 that he was "gentle" with them. Paul is hard to understand at times, I admit; but I think verse 7 sorts things out.
No historical facts have been given, only lies, deceptions and half truths.
As to the last one someone said (yes, sorry it was a Catholic so not acceptable) that half a truth is no truth at all.
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