The Key to Discipleship

[Lizbeth]

Maybe this will help....? A child is called an heir even before he has inherited. The inheritance is being imputed to him before he actually receives it. God calleth those things that be not as though they are. And we need the mind of Christ to grasp this.

So important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Episkopos]

Maybe this will help....? A child is called an heir even before he has inherited.

True. But the condition is that the person is there to get it. The sons of the kingdom...the original heirs.... were rejected because they were too stuck on their religious certainties to be open to faith..and eternal truth.

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matt. 8:12

The same thing is happening again...and few if any are pointing it out. The ones now called to inherit the kingdom are not entering into it...instead relying on the very same kind of religious certainty...not seeing themselves or understanding God's judgments...thinking they have a privileged status. Didn't the Jews also think they were God's people and had that same privilege?

The inheritance is being imputed to him before he actually receives it.

This is a wrong way of reading"imputed". Imputed means something IS related NOW to that person or thing. Like..the noise was IMPUTED to the engine. That would be false if the engine was not running yet. Like the noise was imputed to the silent engine...which is then a FALSE imputation. So then you are taking something that could be true in the future and making it a present falsehood. God is not in it. Only He can know the day the hour and what each person receives.

God calleth those things that be not as though they are.

You claim to be God? How do you know God is not calling you a "Lord, Lord" person. A Laodicean? Isn't it that very religious certainty that is certain to catch you out? There will be weeping and anger.

And we need the mind of Christ to grasp this.

You use your imagination. The mind of Christ is humble...you are proud.

So important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Let the outer man go to the cross.

 

[Behold]

God's wrath is yet to come...

Its interesting that you mention "bible reading", as apparently you need to do some yourself @Episkopos

If you have a bible, you should open it to Genesis.

(first Book).

And there, You'll find 2 instances of God's wrath..

1.) Noah's Flood

2.) Sodom & Gomorrah.

Now, this is not the "day of Wrath"..... as that is found as :

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

 

[APAK]

Again what you saw was not his intent… ask him yourself. You deny the higher walk in Christ

And I believe this 'higher' upward Pauline allegorical walk for his journey in life must be clearly defined. In part it applies for and to all mature and growing believers in Christ of the Spirit of God, already placed in the Kingdom today, and not just someone's personal definition not identified or found in the word of God that makes it exclusive to them only. This latter type of teaching is false and does mislead the new believer into thinking they must perform some type of religious works-for grace event(s) experience for salvation and growth not given or directed by the Spirit. Confusion is not of the Spirit!

 

[Episkopos]

And I believe this 'higher' upward Pauline allegorical walk for his journey in life must be clearly defined. In part it apples for and to all mature and growing believers in Christ of the Spirit of God, already placed in the Kingdom today, and not just someone's personal definition not identified or found in the word of God that makes it exclusive to them only. This latter type of teaching is false and does mislead the new believer into thinking they must perform some type of religious works-for grace event(s) experience for salvation and growth not given or directed by the Spirit. Confusion is not of the Spirit!

You are leaving out faith....and holiness without which no one will see God.

Paul states...herein is the righteousness of God revealed...from faith to FAITH! Two levels of faith...OT faith and NT faith (the faith to be revealed.) Paul embarked on a race...whereby only one wins...meaning one must really strive to win. Win what? Win Christ! So we strive to enter INTO Christ (the narrow door) and INTO the narrow road that leads to eternal life and glory.

How do we strive?

By faith.

Is faith the same as religious certainty? No...it is the opposite of certainty.

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." Luke 13:24

 

[Lizbeth]

True. But the condition is that the person is there to get it. The sons of the kingdom...the original heirs.... were rejected because they were too stuck on their religious certainties to be open to faith..and eternal truth.

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matt. 8:12

The same thing is happening again...and few if any are pointing it out. The ones now called to inherit the kingdom are not entering into it...instead relying on the very same kind of religious certainty...not seeing themselves or understanding God's judgments...thinking they have a privileged status. Didn't the Jews also think they were God's people and had that same privilege?

Yes, in many cases. But you are too stuck on tarring everyone with that brush who has issues with certain aspects of your doctrine. It's convenient for you to make those assumptions I guess.

This is a wrong way of reading"imputed". Imputed means something IS related NOW to that person or thing. Like..the noise was IMPUTED to the engine. That would be false if the engine was not running yet. Like the noise was imputed to the silent engine...which is then a FALSE imputation. So then you are taking something that could be true in the future and making it a present falsehood. God is not in it. Only He can know the day the hour and what each person receives.

No it is not. There is no need to impute something that one already has in fact. Why would God need to call those things which be not as though they are, if they already be? lol.

Think on it. And be sure to check the very context of that verse. Romans 4 - God calling Abraham the father of many nations before he was. And it's like God telling the Israelites (that's us!) that He had already given the land of promise into their hands before they went in and conquered it. Need ears to hear these things.

You claim to be God? How do you know God is not calling you a "Lord, Lord" person. A Laodicean? Isn't it that very religious certainty that is certain to catch you out? There will be weeping and anger.

Accusing me of claiming to be God doesn't even deserve an answer. Aren't you above such things?

I don't know. But God is and will be my judge. Not you.

You use your imagination. The mind of Christ is humble...you are proud.

Again doesn't deserve an answer and says more about you than it does me.

Let the outer man go to the cross.

Yes, that is something I agree with.

 

[Behold]

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." Luke 13:24

Again, you are taking a "house of Israel" verse, directed at JEWS, and are trying to pin it on the Body of Christ.

Listen.

CHRISTians do not STRIVE to go to heaven.

They are BORN AGAIN, as "in Christ",.. "One with God".. ."having been Translated from Darkness ... TO LIGHT">

All this.. @Episkopos ... is why every born again Christian, is already "seated in Heavenly Places"..

See, the Born Again, are already that, .. so no "striving" necessary.

Its unfortunate that you have nothing regarding NT understanding to offer a Believer..

Its sad, indeed.

 

[Lizbeth]

You are leaving out faith....and holiness without which no one will see God.

Paul states...herein is the righteousness of God revealed...from faith to FAITH! Two levels of faith...OT faith and NT faith (the faith to be revealed.) Paul embarked on a race...whereby only one wins...meaning one must really strive to win. Win what? Win Christ! So we strive to enter INTO Christ (the narrow door) and INTO the narrow road that leads to eternal life and glory.

How do we strive?

By faith.

Is faith the same as religious certainty? No...it is the opposite of certainty.

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." Luke 13:24

Don't you know that faith GROWS? Starts out as the smallest of seeds which is the guarantee of what is to come (as long as one doesn't end up disqualifying themselves)....then it GROWS and keeps growing up until it becomes a tree of life. According to the word of God but not according to the word of Episkopos apparently...?

And you are compartmentalizing OT faith versus NT faith. Whereas faith is faith. And that is why faith in the old testament qualified one for salvation just the same as faith in the new covenant. That is why Abraham of the old testament could be the father of new testament faith.

 

[APAK]

You are leaving out faith....and holiness without which no one will see God.

Paul states...herein is the righteousness of God revealed...from faith to FAITH! Two levels of faith...OT faith and NT faith (the faith to be revealed.) Paul embarked on a race...whereby only one wins...meaning one must really strive to win. Win what? Win Christ! So we strive to enter INTO Christ (the narrow door) and INTO the narrow road that leads to eternal life and glory.

How do we strive?

By faith.

Is faith the same as religious certainty? No...it is the opposite of certainty.

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." Luke 13:24

Well let me add in faith and holiness then Epi to make it complete for you, and you are correct of course. Of course it is well-understood by any true mature person of God that faith is the backbone in holiness, to perform the will of God today. Nothing less will do.

 

[Lizbeth]

Again, you are taking a "house of Israel" verse, directed at JEWS, and are trying to pin it on the Body of Christ.

Listen.

CHRISTians do not STRIVE to go to heaven.

They are BORN AGAIN, as "in Christ",.. "One with God".. ."having been Translated from Darkness ... TO LIGHT">

All this.. @Episkopos ... is why every born again Christian, is already "seated in Heavenly Places"..

See, the Born Again, are already that, .. so no "striving" necessary.

Its unfortunate that you have nothing regarding NT understanding to offer a Believer..

Its sad, indeed.

Jesus is that strait gate. I think we can interpret that word "strive" to mean seek to or endeavour to enter.

It's kind of funny that some of the trouble with Epi's doctrine is that he contradicts his own doctrine with his doctrine. He thinks God will have mercy on those who don't know Christ because He will have mercy on who He has mercy......but will have no mercy at all for anyone at all who might somehow fall short of that "higher walk" for various reasons that have nothing to do with their sincerity or doing all they can to follow Jesus all they know how. Thought God will have mercy on who He has mercy. Does that suddenly NOT apply to His own children? Is God the judge or is Epi? Oy vey.

 

[Episkopos]

Don't you know that faith GROWS? Starts out as the smallest of seeds which is the guarantee of what is to come (as long as one doesn't end up disqualifying themselves)....then it GROWS and keeps growing up until it becomes a tree of life. According to the word of God but not according to the word of Episkopos apparently...?

Religious certainty comes as a package deal....it is a death faith so it doesn't grow. But TRUE faith...the faith OF Christ grows into eternal glory.

 

[Lizbeth]

Religious certainty comes as a package deal....it is a death faith so it doesn't grow. But TRUE faith...the faith OF Christ grows into eternal glory.

Oh I'm glad to see you suddenly agree with the concept of growth. Better late than never I suppose.

Think I'm going to go have some popcorn.

 

[APAK]

Oh I'm glad to see you suddenly agree with the concept of growth. Better late than never I suppose.

Think I'm going to go have some popcorn.

Liz, understand first before you get your popcorn, what Epi means by faith 'grows into eternal glory.' Hint: he is a witness to/of it already.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen. No argument there brother. I just am wondering about exceptions, or whether for some the question might really be whether their spirit may be saved but not their soul. Eg, the very young, should they die before knowing to choose either right or wrong. They are not born again. But they are like Adam and Eve before they had eaten fruit from either Tree....still of the earth earthy, but haven't sinned. And why did it say of that believer in sin "that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord....was there a reason why the author didn't use the word for soul there? I can't find where the words for soul/spirit are used interchangeably elsewhere in the new testament.

I wont' get into my whole train of thought, maybe it will go nowhere or maybe it will......just a glimpse that this might be helpful going forward to speak to some of the questions being raised here. Which I expect we will only be hearing more of, not less. And sometimes its just as useful to rule things out as to rule things in. Anyhow I will wait on the Lord.

what is the difference . let us overthink not .
If one denies JESUS CHRIST their spirit , their soul will be destroyed .
its not like my spirit will go to heaven while my soul be destroyed .
The simple message is , TO DENY CHRIST is anti christ
to deny JESUS is the CHRIST is anti christ .
that soul or whatever we want to call it , spirit or etc , IT WONT BE HAVING PARADISE but rather PERDITION .
There is no hope for those who deny JESUS CHRIST . only punishment awaits those .
that too is a fact .
The simple truth is , we know what we need to know . and that by grace which the scrips do confirm
and that is this , I SHUDDER IN ALL OUT fear for any who would dare to give any other hope
than THIS . JESUS CHRIST and the ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED to believe on HIM . and notice i said JESUS CHRIST and not jesus christ .
cause many can lip the name as i once did , BUT what JESUS do they love and follow . is it JESUS or jesus
The bible it not nearly as complicated as the twisters of it try and make it seem to be .
as you know already . But i do caution us , OVERTHINK NOT .
rather preach that , speak that , WHICH WE DO KNOW . ETERNAL LIFE IS FOUND IN JESUS CHRIST
condemnation is found in all who reject HIM . its really that simple .
GOD will do as HE DO . JESUS did so many things that all the books of the world could not even contain it
BUT what the GOOD BOOK says HE DID , that we DO NEED TO KNOW . its that simple for this lamb .
March on sister .

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh I'm glad to see you suddenly agree with the concept of growth. Better late than never I suppose.

Think I'm going to go have some popcorn.

well before you butter up the popcorn . DO REMEMBER he denies the one true gospel in favor of the social inclusive one .
SO while even a buddist , an athiest , a muslim or etc can KNOW some truths , THE TRUTH THEY KNOW NOT
dont butter up the corn just yet . IF any brings not this doctrine , well as john once wrote , IT AINT LOOKING GOOD
for them and i wont even bid them godspeed or etc . THEY GONNA be rather exposed till THEY REPENT of said false gospel
and will be warned against too , TILL they repent of said go spell .

 

[amigo de christo]

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

those who walk after the flesh , as i once did , though i could lip the gospel verbatum . THEY NOT BORN AGAIN sister .
at most they have head knowledge but the heart BE FAR FROM HIM .
FAR FROM HIM . and boy do i say far from HIM . THE BORN AGAIN LOVE GOD LOVE CHRIST thus LOVE TRUTH , LOVE HIS WORDS
HIS WORDS be their meat . those who are lip only ONLY pick and choose what words to embrace while omitting other words .
It aint looking too good in these final hours upon earth .
WHO WE LOVE IS PROOF OF WHOSE LOVE IS IN US . whether it be the love that cometh of the world
or the LOVE OF GOD . THOSE WHO ARE BORN AGAIN , LOVE TRUTH , PUT GOD PUT CHRIST FIRST above all
Even their own children , wives or husbands or etc . a lamb is known by its LOVE .
CHARITY . CHARITY REJOICES IN TRUTH , NOT INQUITY . that be a serious KEY SIGN TOO .

 

[amigo de christo]

Again what you saw was not his intent… ask him yourself. You deny the higher walk in Christ

the higher walk in CHRIST , however , DONT DENY THE ABSOLUTE NEED TO HAVE BELIEVED ON HIM
or its nothing more than mans way and ways to try and attain that which NO MAN CAN .
your king epi has long put the HORSE IN THE CART
and straps the reigns on his own back and removes even the wheels of the cart to pulls and pulls but ITS GOING NO where .
there is but ONE WAY and ONE WAY ALONE to PLEASE GOD the way HE DESIRES TO BE PLEASED .
OMITTING THE DIRE NEED for other religons and others to BELIEVE IN THAT NAME , IS FUTILE and brings only certain death .
THIS SO called higher walk i keep seeing get made mention of by some here ..........
seems to be MAN doing THE WORK HIMSELF and teaching others to DO THAT WORK without having to BELIEVE ON HE WHOM GOD
DID SEND . OOPS that aint a higher walk , LEST YE SPEAK OF EGO .
MAN cannot save himself . and while i know a lot within the christain realm might lip the name
STILL THEY DENY HIM .
THE BORN AGAIN know something . A , YOU MUST BELIEVE
B . IF you works are dead , You can lip all day and yet DENIED you are .
THE BORN again are a new creature . THEY KNOW YE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS , THEY TEACH YE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS
and they TEACH ALL THINGS HE DID SAY . LOVE . the born again have the LOVE OF GOD upon their hearts
the lip only and all other religoins have have the love of the world and its gonna UNIFY THEM ALL TO BE AS ONE UNDER THE DRAGON .
Can i say BIBLE TIME . LETS GET IN IT and learn for ourselves .

 

[amigo de christo]

TIME to stop chomping on the pop corn and get busy warning .

 

[amigo de christo]

Maybe this will help....? A child is called an heir even before he has inherited. The inheritance is being imputed to him before he actually receives it. God calleth those things that be not as though they are. And we need the mind of Christ to grasp this.

So important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

some have thrown out the DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST . all that is left is vain dirty water .

 

[Behold]

Jesus is that strait gate.

And that Gate is The Cross of Christ.

See that Gate?

That is the "narrow WAY"... = Jesus said I am THE WAY..... John 14:6

That is the Only ONE.. .= the only GATE.

See, when Jesus Said """"that no person can go to God, but by HIM", He is not Kidding..

And people who teach "works" "performance" "advance spirituality", as ANOTHER Way to God, are going to find out that there was only ONE Way.

= The CROSS of Christ

So...What is the "broad way" that "leads to destruction".

A.) Any other Gospel, or Religion or Theory. That is taught or preached "in the Time of The Gentiles", as all of those are : Galatians 1:8


Now, when this ends, and the Trib starts, then the Gospel changes.

It becomes "endure to the end" (of the Grt Trib). Matthew 24:15

It becomes 'faith + Works".

So, in that Case, its different.

This is why you have Tribulation Saints, in the TRIBULATION< but you have "not under the law, but under Grace" Saints, in the "time of the Gentiles'.