The Key to Discipleship

[Lizbeth]

Liz, understand first before you get your popcorn, what Epi means by faith 'grows into eternal glory.' Hint: he is a witness to/of it already.

Does he think he is unique in experiencing heavenly things? I am not the one denying growth and what it can potentially grow into.......Epi is the one who has been denying the concept of growth all along with regard to these things. He dismisses growth as merely just referring to growing in righteousness in an alleged "lower walk", and not worth his time of day because he doesn't believe it applies to holiness and what he calls "the higher walk". Another example of the kind of compartmentalizing that he does.

His doctrine, his approach and the way it is presented, all smacks of spiritual elitism in my opinion. AKA, it's of the flesh, not spirit. There is no room in his doctrine for the fact that God doesn't judge the way man judges. God's ways are not man's ways.....in His economy the last shall be first and the least receive greater honour. He is not unjust but judges relative to such things as one's circumstances and the battle arrayed against them, and the measure of grace one has received to start with. There are greater and lesser in the kingdom of heaven - that is just a fact of life, where life in this world reflects this. The stars differ in their glory but they are all stars in the heavens. Epi's black and white, in or out, "merely" righteous as opposed to "arriving" someplace holy, has no room to take anything else into account...no room for mercy for the child of God - this is why he has dismissed the idea of growth and progressive sanctification up to now because it doesn't fit his compartmentalized, black and white, rather merciless way of looking at things with regard to believers. Ironic.
.
We are not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought. God gives GRACE....to the humble.

 

[Episkopos]

Does he think he is unique in experiencing heavenly things? I am not the one denying growth and what it can potentially grow into.......Epi is the one who has been denying the concept of growth all along with regard to these things. He dismisses growth as merely just referring to growing in righteousness in an alleged "lower walk", and not worth his time of day because he doesn't believe it applies to holiness and what he calls "the higher walk". Another example of the kind of compartmentalizing that he does.

Assumptions that are not accurate. The lower walk is important and good if it is held in humility and the fear of the Lord. What is wrong is to falsely claim to be getting progressively more holy...or claiming things that are not true...thus destroying righteousness. The righteous don't lie. They are humble.

Evangelical types tend to fall in the cracks...between righteousness and holiness...missing both.

His doctrine, his approach and the way it is presented, all smacks of spiritual elitism in my opinion. AKA, it's of the flesh, not spirit.

To the carnal mind, spiritual things sound foolish. People will prove their carnality and lack of faith because they have not left room for God and what He does.

There is no room in his doctrine for the fact that God doesn't judge the way man judges.

The irony.

God's ways are not man's ways.....in His economy the last shall be first and the least receive greater honour. He is not unjust but judges relative to such things as one's circumstances and the battle arrayed against them, and the measure of grace one has received to start with. There are greater and lesser in the kingdom of heaven - that is just a fact of life, where life in this world reflects this. The stars differ in their glory but they are all stars in the heavens. Epi's black and white, in or out, "merely" righteous as opposed to "arriving" someplace holy, has no room to take anything else into account...no room for mercy for the child of God - this is why he has dismissed the idea of growth and progressive sanctification up to now because it doesn't fit his compartmentalized, black and white, rather merciless way of looking at things with regard to believers. Ironic.

Your human traditions perspective is the black and white option. As usual your judgment is backwards. You espouse the either saved or damned approach. The bible shows a much more nuanced judgment...from both the goodness (one facet) and severity of God (a whole other facet). You seem unable to comprehend the bible or what I write.

.
We are not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought. God gives GRACE....to the humble.

Why not follow your own advice instead of more claiming?

 

[Lizbeth]

And that Gate is The Cross of Christ.

See that Gate?

That is the "narrow WAY"... = Jesus said I am THE WAY..... John 14:6

That is the Only ONE.. .= the only GATE.

See, when Jesus Said """"that no person can go to God, but by HIM", He is not Kidding..

And people who teach "works" "performance" "advance spirituality", as ANOTHER Way to God, are going to find out that there was only ONE Way.

= The CROSS of Christ

So...What is the "broad way" that "leads to destruction".

A.) Any other Gospel, or Religion or Theory. That is taught or preached "in the Time of The Gentiles", as all of those are : Galatians 1:8


Now, when this ends, and the Trib starts, then the Gospel changes.

It becomes "endure to the end" (of the Grt Trib). Matthew 24:15

It becomes 'faith + Works".

So, in that Case, its different.

This is why you have Tribulation Saints, in the TRIBULATION< but you have "not under the law, but under Grace" Saints, in the "time of the Gentiles'.

Behold, I consider that the same "way" we are saved is the same "way" we are to walk and obey Him. It's all the same strait gate and narrow way....Jesus. His Spirit. Having begun in the spirit, we are not now going to be made perfect by the flesh. (Gal 3:3) I think we are in agreement on this, but not necessarily on OSAS.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

TIME to stop chomping on the pop corn and get busy warning .

I did quite a bit of that on another thread.

Someone is out to get me in trouble with the Mods again…

 

[Episkopos]

Were Jesus' disciples justified in their lower walk of human faith? Yes. Did they fear God? Yes. Were they humble? Yes. Although at times Jesus reproved their very human weakness of faith since they hardened their hearts at times...but never to the point where the voice of Jesus couldn't break through.

Peter...who both feared the Lord and was humble (so unlike modern ideologues) said...

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34,35

Is this important to bible enthusiasts of today? Not in the slightest. These are too busy claiming to follow the bible to actually give it any credibility. It is the sign of the times.

 

[Lizbeth]

what is the difference . let us overthink not .
If one denies JESUS CHRIST their spirit , their soul will be destroyed .
its not like my spirit will go to heaven while my soul be destroyed .
The simple message is , TO DENY CHRIST is anti christ
to deny JESUS is the CHRIST is anti christ .
that soul or whatever we want to call it , spirit or etc , IT WONT BE HAVING PARADISE but rather PERDITION .
There is no hope for those who deny JESUS CHRIST . only punishment awaits those .
that too is a fact .
The simple truth is , we know what we need to know . and that by grace which the scrips do confirm
and that is this , I SHUDDER IN ALL OUT fear for any who would dare to give any other hope
than THIS . JESUS CHRIST and the ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED to believe on HIM . and notice i said JESUS CHRIST and not jesus christ .
cause many can lip the name as i once did , BUT what JESUS do they love and follow . is it JESUS or jesus
The bible it not nearly as complicated as the twisters of it try and make it seem to be .
as you know already . But i do caution us , OVERTHINK NOT .
rather preach that , speak that , WHICH WE DO KNOW . ETERNAL LIFE IS FOUND IN JESUS CHRIST
condemnation is found in all who reject HIM . its really that simple .
GOD will do as HE DO . JESUS did so many things that all the books of the world could not even contain it
BUT what the GOOD BOOK says HE DID , that we DO NEED TO KNOW . its that simple for this lamb .
March on sister .

Well brother don't you be worrying about me going off the deep end. I'm just going to be fair and subject the idea to the test, Lord willing. Whether there are any exceptions to the rule one must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. Babies are one such possible exception. I do believe as a principle God can make allowances in His mercy. Maybe there are other examples my poor brain can't think of, I don't know but am asking the Lord. If it happens there are exceptions to this in the mercy of God, it certainly shouldn't be taught as a rule and false hope. Exceptions are exceptions, not the rule.

 

[Lizbeth]

I did quite a bit of that on another thread.

Someone is out to get me in trouble with the Mods again…

I welcome a little comic relief, lol. Specially when things get intense. Laughter is good medicine.

 

[Lizbeth]

Assumptions that are not accurate. The lower walk is important and good if it is held in humility and the fear of the Lord. What is wrong is to falsely claim to be getting progressively more holy...or claiming things that are not true...thus destroying righteousness. The righteous don't lie. They are humble.

Evangelical types tend to fall in the cracks...between righteousness and holiness...missing both.


To the carnal mind, spiritual things sound foolish. People will prove their carnality and lack of faith because they have not left room for God and what He does.


The irony.


Your human traditions perspective is the black and white option. As usual your judgment is backwards. You espouse the either saved or damned approach. The bible shows a much more nuanced judgment...from both the goodness (one facet) and severity of God (a whole other facet). You seem unable to comprehend the bible or what I write.

Why not follow your own advice instead of more claiming?

Sorry....busy. Please leave a message at the sound of the tone. Want some popcorn?

 

[APAK]

Does he think he is unique in experiencing heavenly things? I am not the one denying growth and what it can potentially grow into.......Epi is the one who has been denying the concept of growth all along with regard to these things. He dismisses growth as merely just referring to growing in righteousness in an alleged "lower walk", and not worth his time of day because he doesn't believe it applies to holiness and what he calls "the higher walk". Another example of the kind of compartmentalizing that he does.

His doctrine, his approach and the way it is presented, all smacks of spiritual elitism in my opinion. AKA, it's of the flesh, not spirit. There is no room in his doctrine for the fact that God doesn't judge the way man judges. God's ways are not man's ways.....in His economy the last shall be first and the least receive greater honour. He is not unjust but judges relative to such things as one's circumstances and the battle arrayed against them, and the measure of grace one has received to start with. There are greater and lesser in the kingdom of heaven - that is just a fact of life, where life in this world reflects this. The stars differ in their glory but they are all stars in the heavens. Epi's black and white, in or out, "merely" righteous as opposed to "arriving" someplace holy, has no room to take anything else into account...no room for mercy for the child of God - this is why he has dismissed the idea of growth and progressive sanctification up to now because it doesn't fit his compartmentalized, black and white, rather merciless way of looking at things with regard to believers. Ironic.
.
We are not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought. God gives GRACE....to the humble.

Yes, this subject of faith and our walk/ way of life in the Kingdom is not binary, as if we ae either walking or not, faithful or not. It is a maturation process over time and to use Paul's approach, we are in a race as if with others, although we do it alone, and in Christ, to become mor like him in mind and heart. And not all have the same zeal and measure of faith, and maturity as Paul today.

We all have a calling as the will of the God for our lives, to perform in the Spirit and we must use and effect this calling in our lives. Not all members then have the same calling as Paul would preach. Members of the Body perform different holy and faithful functions and all of these are equally significant in God's eyes. We cannot or should not boast indeed and look down at others in Christ if our ego and selfish nature returns; and we then are the losers and the slower runner in this race. The turtle and the hare comes to mind.

And yes, we grow in maturity and in faith over time to perform this calling. The citizens of the Kingdom are active today for God and we must not lose sight that we are of the same cloth doing work that gives glory to God and his Son and not to ourselves. So we do all these spirit led tasks with humility and love that reminds us every time, we are being saved by the grace of God who gives us an abundance of grace and leeway to learn and grow.

Thanks for your words. They are enlightening and I'm reminded that humility, love and patience are too important to squander or be left out of our spiritual walk.

 

[Lizbeth]

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34,35

Is this important to bible enthusiasts of today? Not in the slightest. These are too busy claiming to follow the bible to actually give it any credibility. It is the sign of the times.

Oh I give it credibility. That's why I do not try to take it out of context and use it to justify a doctrine of people being saved by their own righteousness apart from Christ.

If you read just before that verse you will see the story of Cornelius a Gentile who Peter was sent to, to preach the gospel to him so that he might be saved....even though he already feared God and was doing good works. Not being a respecter of persons is talking about God sending the gospel and saving Gentiles from every nation, and not just Jews.

Notice what comes with those verses is a testimony and affirmation of the gospel that goes to all the nations, that WHOSOEVER would believe might be saved (meaning anyone from any nation, not just Israel):

Act 10:34-44

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

 

[David H.]

I've learned over the years that extra-biblical terminology always needs to be examined when it is being taught as an actual doctrine. Because that is not the same thing as just using words to help the understanding of scripture.

What do you mean by "the higher walk"...? Do you simply mean "walking in the spirit" as the scriptures speak of? or putting on the new man? If so, why do some insist on relying on terminology that is divorced from scripture? That tends to "form" thoughts that are not in spirit...aka, compartmentalized of the carnal mind. And we are instructed not to go beyond what is written.

"Upward call" indicates to me of something in motion.....it is movement in an upward direction, rather than being an end point of "arrival".........it speaks to me of growth upward. It agrees with the scripture that says we are growing UP into the Head which is Christ.

I am on my phone at work so I cannot copy and paste scripture to back the high calling of God in Christ … what I want you to show me is the verse that says we are “instructed not to go beyond what is written”? Because I can give you ten that say we must…

 

[Lizbeth]

I am on my phone at work so I cannot copy and paste scripture to back the high calling of God in Christ … what I want you to show me is the verse that says we are “instructed not to go beyond what is written”? Because I can give you ten that say we must…

1Co 4:6-7

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?


We need to let the word of God inform our thoughts and doctrine. Bring every thought CAPTIVE to the obedience of Christ (Word made flesh). How I understand this, is that, in a way we are to limit ourselves, bring our thoughts into subjection to the word of God. One problem with Lucifer is that he exalted his throne ABOVE the stars of God....he went beyond the bounds set for him by God. Adam & Eve's mistake too, they went beyond the bounds set for them by God in a quest to be like God. From what I"ve observed it seems we can err and miss the mark in two ways, one is by falling short of the mark (being in flesh and not in spirit), and the other is by going beyond it (which I call going into new age type of thinking).

Anyway, please feel free to bring those scrips when you have time. I have no problem with the high calling of God in principle, of course not. But of course it's a matter of how one thinks of that and applies it etc.

 

[APAK]

@Lizbeth I was replying to Amadeus today and it dawned on me much later, that in part ,on another related subject, on the Kingdom of God, and without intention, I defined this high, or upward call(ing), Greek 'ano' for top, most important calling, up to heaven. This so-called higher walk is Epi's creation and is definitely not scriptural at all and is a dishonest attempt to create a different walk that he believed he walked in the past. He deliberately replaced the high calling of Paul into this deceptive 'higher walk' he invented for his own glorification, without Christ in mind. And there is really no 'lower walk' either. Another fabrication for selfish gratification reasons.

(Php 3:14) I press on toward the goal, to the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (NEV)
(Php 3:14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (KJV)
(Php 3:14) I run toward the goal, so that I can win the prize of being called to heaven. This is the prize that God offers because of what Christ Jesus has done. (CEV)

I spoke to amadeus and yourself previously, about how we all have a different calling to perform for different functions and purposes. And I did not mention this, that there is another calling we all have in common, and this is what Paul addressed for himself and for others. We all have in common, the upward or high calling to heaven..

And then what does this mean?

It is the heavenward journey of a closer relationship with Christ, the sign of a mature believer in glorification, transforming into more glory. This is the apex and common calling for all believers.

And we demonstrate this high calling in our heart, mind and actions because the spirit of Christ within us molds us to him, to be more like him, his image, as for the glory of Christ. It is a progression of maturity for a believer. And each believer progresses in this transformational heavenly calling to his conformance into being more like him as a deeper image of Christ's spirit at different rates. In this way we glorify ourselves for God more more over time until we attain full salvation after this life and will see/experience the face of God through his Son. This the prize that Paul spoke of...realization of salvation in a gloried state/ body and experiencing the face of God.

----------------this is part of one of posts to amadeus today-------------

Yes, to seek and see/experience, and embrace the face of God is the goal indeed.....as the Son is in the Father so we are also in the Son. God is indeed in all of us. I experience my savior today as he speaks to me often and brings his love and friendship whether I'm ready or not to receive and be of the same spirit. I've learned this over the years and it's such a precious thing I sometime literally cry out with tears of joy and thanksgiving.

Speaking of the truth, the truth is found in Christ, in his life that shines brightly in my soul, indeed. The founder and finisher of our faith, our friend, our brother, and also our leader and master of our souls as we traverse this life with him, and for sure in his spirit.

We are today walking on his holy path he laid down for us on the Cross, leading us with our given and ever-growing faith on our holy journey to his home of his Father, in his sanctuary called the Kingdom of God.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this post will give you more insight on this subject at hand....

 

[David H.]

1Co 4:6-7

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?


We need to let the word of God inform our thoughts and doctrine. Bring every thought CAPTIVE to the obedience of Christ (Word made flesh). How I understand this, is that, in a way we are to limit ourselves, bring our thoughts into subjection to the word of God. One problem with Lucifer is that he exalted his throne ABOVE the stars of God....he went beyond the bounds set for him by God. Adam & Eve's mistake too, they went beyond the bounds set for them by God in a quest to be like God. From what I"ve observed it seems we can err and miss the mark in two ways, one is by falling short of the mark (being in flesh and not in spirit), and the other is by going beyond it (which I call going into new age type of thinking).

Anyway, please feel free to bring those scrips when you have time. I have no problem with the high calling of God in principle, of course not. But of course it's a matter of how one thinks of that and applies it etc.

Though your concerns are Valid, especially the New age part, There is a need to look at who Paul is directing his comments to... Those who are suckling on milk still (1 Corinthians 3:1-4) For them the written word, the fundamentals of the faith are essential. But even those things puff up the individual which is why Paul rebuked the Corinthian church in chapters 1-3 for being carnal, and full of head knowledge.... I Implore you to read these first three chapters as some of my proofs for divine revelation are contained therein, but even more so in the later Epistles of Paul where he had no written word, but he heard from God, His voice directly.... Let's take a look at the verses that show that divine revelation is essential in our walk... Gonna give you two or three witnesses of this if my time permits...

THE APOSTLE JOHN
First of all, the Job of the comforter/Spirit of Truth is to testify of Christ....
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
The Spirit of truth is our guide unto all Truth and what he shall hear he shall speak, including Prophecy...
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)
John Himself even said....
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. John 21:25

The very first thing the Holy Ghost reveals to us is that Jesus is the LORD, and in this revelation is the Experience of His love for us.... Amazing Love how can it be that thou my God shoulds't die for me... (Charles Wesley) Although Scripture contains evidence of The deity of Christ all of that is a moot point to those who In fact have never experienced this revelation of the Love Of Christ in this way, and why this is one of the tests of the Spirit. Secondary to this is the triune nature of God, nowhere is this expressly written in scripture but revealed to the early church, and confirmed by the Words of scripture, (written word). But if you argue with non-trinitarians they cannot or will not see this because this needs to be revealed by the Spirit. This being the initial unction a Believer receives from The Holy Ghost. John writes:
But ye have an unction G5545 from the Holy One, and ye know all things..... But the anointing G5545 which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing G5545 teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:20,27) That word in the Greek for unction is Chrisma from which charimatic is derived from. It is in reference to the initial smearing of Oil on Priests, and we are all a royal priesthood who have received this anointing. That anointing (Spirit) Teaches us all things, and IS TRUTH (See John 14:6, for a deeper revelation)...

THE APOSTLE PAUL:
Let's Jump right into that 1 Corinthians Passage:
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:9-14, KJV)

Should be obvious here that the Spirit is our teacher, and He will teach us the deep things of God For this is the Spirit of God. Walking in the Spirit we are revealed those deep things of God, the Mysteries, TRUTH. In fact we cannot KNOW the TRUTH without the Spirit, which is where the church sits today in Post Modern relativistic everything is fluid times... even gender is now fluid and some in the churches accept this nonsense.... This alone should get you to see the need for divine revelation which is beyond scripture, just to address modernity and modern heresies.

God uses divine revelation to Give the word of Prophecy which by its nature is extra biblical...
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.(1 Corinthians 14:29-31)
Prophecy is divine revelation, is "extra Biblical" beyond the written word, and is to be judged by divine revelation given to other prophets NOT by intellect. To deny divine revelation or to make an atmosphere where it is frowned upon is to deny prophecy, Among the worst at this is fundamentalism. And also why there are so many false prophets out there because prophets and prophecy itself is denied by some in the church (Cessation)... And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. (14:32) If there was no more prophets/gift of Prophecy in the church we could not discern false prophecy, and if there was no divine revelation there is no Spiritual discernment which comes by revelation and not intellect....

Paul's Prayer in Ephesians 1 is for divine revelation...
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,(Ephesians 1:17-19)

In eschatology the Antichrist will be revealed to Spirit filled believers... Some will See Jesus coming, and be prepared for it (wise virgins) others will not be prepared, because they will not have enough oil..... Think back to Unction/ Chrisma/ anointing...

PETER:
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:19-21) What this means is that if we have no divine revelation we have no way to interpret Prophecy unless the Spirit who wrote Prophecy is revealing us its intent, for he is the Author of Prophecy.

Those are the three witnesses to why we need extra biblical divine revelation, and why much of the modern church is powerless.... especially the ones who teach cessation of the gift of Prophecy.

The High calling is directly tied to this divine revelation which I will hopefully address tomorrow morning. As i said i do not have much time to write long posts and am staying up late to write this one. The written word is essential to learning the milk of doctrine, But meat is what we need to seek.... that meat is negated by much of fundamentalism which denies divine revelation.... This is where the High calling begins. LORD willing i will continue tomorrow morning.

 

[Lizbeth]

Though your concerns are Valid, especially the New age part, There is a need to look at who Paul is directing his comments to... Those who are suckling on milk still (1 Corinthians 3:1-4) For them the written word, the fundamentals of the faith are essential. But even those things puff up the individual which is why Paul rebuked the Corinthian church in chapters 1-3 for being carnal, and full of head knowledge.... I Implore you to read these first three chapters as some of my proofs for divine revelation are contained therein, but even more so in the later Epistles of Paul where he had no written word, but he heard from God, His voice directly.... Let's take a look at the verses that show that divine revelation is essential in our walk... Gonna give you two or three witnesses of this if my time permits...



THE APOSTLE PAUL:
Let's Jump right into that 1 Corinthians Passage:
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:9-14, KJV)

Should be obvious here that the Spirit is our teacher, and He will teach us the deep things of God For this is the Spirit of God. Walking in the Spirit we are revealed those deep things of God, the Mysteries, TRUTH. In fact we cannot KNOW the TRUTH without the Spirit, which is where the church sits today in Post Modern relativistic everything is fluid times... even gender is now fluid and some in the churches accept this nonsense.... This alone should get you to see the need for divine revelation which is beyond scripture, just to address modernity and modern heresies.

God uses divine revelation to Give the word of Prophecy which by its nature is extra biblical...
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.(1 Corinthians 14:29-31)
Prophecy is divine revelation, is "extra Biblical" beyond the written word, and is to be judged by divine revelation given to other prophets NOT by intellect. To deny divine revelation or to make an atmosphere where it is frowned upon is to deny prophecy, Among the worst at this is fundamentalism. And also why there are so many false prophets out there because prophets and prophecy itself is denied by some in the church (Cessation)... And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. (14:32) If there was no more prophets/gift of Prophecy in the church we could not discern false prophecy, and if there was no divine revelation there is no Spiritual discernment which comes by revelation and not intellect....

Paul's Prayer in Ephesians 1 is for divine revelation...
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,(Ephesians 1:17-19)

In eschatology the Antichrist will be revealed to Spirit filled believers... Some will See Jesus coming, and be prepared for it (wise virgins) others will not be prepared, because they will not have enough oil..... Think back to Unction/ Chrisma/ anointing...

PETER:
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:19-21) What this means is that if we have no divine revelation we have no way to interpret Prophecy unless the Spirit who wrote Prophecy is revealing us its intent, for he is the Author of Prophecy.

Those are the three witnesses to why we need extra biblical divine revelation, and why much of the modern church is powerless.... especially the ones who teach cessation of the gift of Prophecy.

The High calling is directly tied to this divine revelation which I will hopefully address tomorrow morning. As i said i do not have much time to write long posts and am staying up late to write this one. The written word is essential to learning the milk of doctrine, But meat is what we need to seek.... that meat is negated by much of fundamentalism which denies divine revelation.... This is where the High calling begins. LORD willing i will continue tomorrow morning.

ok, thank you brother. (Sorry I had to delete half your post, otherwise it wouldn't let me post - too many characters.) The love of God shed abroad in our hearts.......is in scripture. Meat of the word is in scripture also and that involves our part in following the Lord and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. When we are infants all we do is take, take, take, and enjoy the bliss of childhood......as we grow we start to see the seriousness of "life" and take on more responsibility of our part and begin to become aware of the dangers and potential pitfalls that we must overcome, because there is a devil out there still after our souls.

Yes, amen, the Lord does speak to us extra-biblically....His sheep know His voice.......but anything He speaks to us will not contradict the written word or the character of God that we see there. When the Lord speaks to me in some way, He almost always confirms it in the written word, I mean often even scripture comes with what He is saying/showing, or He will give me bible verses as confirmation some time after.....or even the Lord will speak to me directly through the written word by quickening a portion of it. "Things to come" are not always in the written word, though sometimes we will see the same pattern occurring......but they are verified when they come to pass. Words of wisdom and counsel etc, may not be directly in the word....but wisdom is proven right by her children...proof will be in the pudding.

But do you believe there is any DOCTRINE that is not in the written word? Doctrine is another matter......how can we accept any doctrine that isn't taught in scripture.........Jesus Christ is the WORD made flesh and He gave us His doctrine, along with the apostles He chose and inspired/empowered, and it has been faithfully written down.

Speaking of which, I'm going to post some scriptures in a separate post. Epi will either ignore them entirely or come at me with a baseball bat as per usual....but maybe you can address them, whether you agree or disagree. (Time permitting, no rush.)

 

[Lizbeth]

Eph 1:16-23

Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the HOPE of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his INHERITANCE in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


Jer 29:11-13

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a FUTURE and a hope.
Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.


Rom 8:23-25

Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
For in this hope we were saved. But HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. Who hopes for what they already have?
But if we HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT YET HAVE, we wait for it patiently.


Eph 1:13-14

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Heb 11:1-2

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things NOT SEEN.
For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Heb 2:8

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we SEE NOT YET all things put under him.



Phl 3:12-16

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Brethren, I COUNT NOT MYSELF TO HAVE APPREHENDED: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and REACHING FORTH unto those things which are before,

I PRESS TOWARD the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (upward call)

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, BE THUS MINDED: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

(As many as be mature are to be of the same mind to not count themselves to have apprehended but keep reaching forth and pressing towards the mark.)

Heb 6:4-6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have TASTED of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have TASTED the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Mat 22:29-30

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.



What these scriptures all tell me is that for now we hope in faith for the inheritance which is not yet seen and are running the race towards it………but in the meantime we may TASTE the powers of the world to come at times and even taste of being “like the angels” such as Philip when he was translated……..but it is a future hope that we are pressing towards in a call that is ever upward in this life. That is like an heir who is called an heir now and is living off the riches of the inheritance now in this life (like in the prodigal son story – “all I have is yours”), according to the will and wisdom of the Father, but doesn’t actually receive the inheritance to possess it entirely until after death. (of course because as scripture says, the inheritance and redemption of our body - aka eternal life - means the physical body has to be sown to die in order for the immortal body to come.)

 

[Episkopos]

ok, thank you brother. (Sorry I had to delete half your post, otherwise it wouldn't let me post - too many characters.) The love of God shed abroad in our hearts.......is in scripture. Meat of the word is in scripture also and that involves our part in following the Lord and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. When we are infants all we do is take, take, take, and enjoy the bliss of childhood......as we grow we start to see the seriousness of "life" and take on more responsibility of our part and begin to become aware of the dangers and potential pitfalls that we must overcome, because there is a devil out there still after our souls.

Yes, amen, the Lord does speak to us extra-biblically....His sheep know His voice.......but anything He speaks to us will not contradict the written word or the character of God that we see there. When the Lord speaks to me in some way, He almost always confirms it in the written word, I mean often even scripture comes with what He is saying/showing, or He will give me bible verses as confirmation some time after.....or even the Lord will speak to me directly through the written word by quickening a portion of it. "Things to come" are not always in the written word, though sometimes we will see the same pattern occurring......but they are verified when they come to pass. Words of wisdom and counsel etc, may not be directly in the word....but wisdom is proven right by her children...proof will be in the pudding.

But do you believe there is any DOCTRINE that is not in the written word? Doctrine is another matter......how can we accept any doctrine that isn't taught in scripture.........Jesus Christ is the WORD made flesh and He gave us His doctrine, along with the apostles He chose and inspired/empowered, and it has been faithfully written down.

Speaking of which, I'm going to post some scriptures in a separate post. Epi will either ignore them entirely or come at me with a baseball bat as per usual....but maybe you can address them, whether you agree or disagree. (Time permitting, no rush.)

 

[Lizbeth]

@Lizbeth I was replying to Amadeus today and it dawned on me much later, that in part ,on another related subject, on the Kingdom of God, and without intention, I defined this high, or upward call(ing), Greek 'ano' for top, most important calling, up to heaven. This so-called higher walk is Epi's creation and is definitely not scriptural at all and is a dishonest attempt to create a different walk that he believed he walked in the past. He deliberately replaced the high calling of Paul into this deceptive 'higher walk' he invented for his own glorification, without Christ in mind. And there is really no 'lower walk' either. Another fabrication for selfish gratification reasons.

(Php 3:14) I press on toward the goal, to the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (NEV)
(Php 3:14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (KJV)
(Php 3:14) I run toward the goal, so that I can win the prize of being called to heaven. This is the prize that God offers because of what Christ Jesus has done. (CEV)

I spoke to amadeus and yourself previously, about how we all have a different calling to perform for different functions and purposes. And I did not mention this, that there is another calling we all have in common, and this is what Paul addressed for himself and for others. We all have in common, the upward or high calling to heaven..

And then what does this mean?

It is the heavenward journey of a closer relationship with Christ, the sign of a mature believer in glorification, transforming into more glory. This is the apex and common calling for all believers.

And we demonstrate this high calling in our heart, mind and actions because the spirit of Christ within us molds us to him, to be more like him, his image, as for the glory of Christ. It is a progression of maturity for a believer. And each believer progresses in this transformational heavenly calling to his conformance into being more like him as a deeper image of Christ's spirit at different rates. In this way we glorify ourselves for God more more over time until we attain full salvation after this life and will see/experience the face of God through his Son. This the prize that Paul spoke of...realization of salvation in a gloried state/ body and experiencing the face of God.

----------------this is part of one of posts to amadeus today-------------

Yes, to seek and see/experience, and embrace the face of God is the goal indeed.....as the Son is in the Father so we are also in the Son. God is indeed in all of us. I experience my savior today as he speaks to me often and brings his love and friendship whether I'm ready or not to receive and be of the same spirit. I've learned this over the years and it's such a precious thing I sometime literally cry out with tears of joy and thanksgiving.

Speaking of the truth, the truth is found in Christ, in his life that shines brightly in my soul, indeed. The founder and finisher of our faith, our friend, our brother, and also our leader and master of our souls as we traverse this life with him, and for sure in his spirit.

We are today walking on his holy path he laid down for us on the Cross, leading us with our given and ever-growing faith on our holy journey to his home of his Father, in his sanctuary called the Kingdom of God.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this post will give you more insight on this subject at hand....

Amen APAK......think we are on the same page, and even thinking of the same scriptures. The Lord is good, and I hear the Spirit in your voice.

 

[Ritajanice]

Hi Epi, out of curiosity, how do you know that you are “ Born Again “ and please explain what it means?

I won’t challenge you on it, as it’s none of my business...just curious on how you became Born Again?

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Epi, out of curiosity, how do you know that you are “ Born Again “ and please explain what it means?

I won’t challenge you on it, as it’s none of my business...just curious on how you became Born Again?

I come from a lapsed Catholic background...musician type. I was living in a foreign city (Winnipeg)... I was from Quebec city. And I was very alone there. No friends or family...and I became depressed. My girlfriend was gone for the summer and I had no gig. I was also convicted of my sins.. (This was summer 1980)

I happened to be living across the street from a house church fellowship...which I only found out later about. They were living out some kind of a revival at the time...people moving in on the block and sharing their lives together. They lived on Bertrand street. I was on Traverse. But I was across the street from them. (from the men's house as it turned out).

I went to confession in a Catholic church hoping I could be alleviated from my terrible sin conviction...and loneliness. That didn't work.

So I began to read the bible (a NT "reach out" easy to read edition). I had never read the bible before. (My girlfriend, who was gone for the summer had left it at my apartment).

I read the bible slowly non-stop...the New Testament...finding it rather repetitive . (4 gospels and all)

Reading Acts, I asked the Lord what the Holy Spirit was...I only knew of it when crossing myself...touching both shoulders.

I kept reading...for a few days...until as I was reading about the Holy Spirit, the words became enlightened...like a light was behind the words...they got bigger and bigger and came at me until they entered into me through my eyes. From there I saw everything in a supernatural light. I saw things on people as I looked out the window. I went out on the street and began telling people about God and how real heaven is...etc. people basically were afraid of me. All purity...no maturity.

I kept reading until I read in Peter where he says "having been born again" and I then realized what had happened to me. Awakened into the eternal reality to walk in His kingdom realm. (I don't remember what verse was "lit up" for my conversion)

After a few days of this....I couldn't take it anymore...I wanted out. It took 18 years to get back into the higher walk in the Spirit where there is no sin. That time I lasted over 2 years.