The Key to Discipleship

[amigo de christo]

I think we do need to take God out of the box of our carnal minds....but many take that too far and try to have things sort of floating around without a foundation. We need to be grounded to the foundation and be building upon it......not free-floating around in the air, so to speak, in an anything goes new age way.

Learn well the GOD of that bible , HIS CHRIST , HIS doctrine , and one will not be decieved
by the denominations of men NOR by the delusoin that has come to UNIFY THE DENOMIATIONS
and religoins of the world TO UNIFY UNDER A LIE .
you see they will always speak partial truths . but notice the KEY DIFFERENCE
THEY WONT SUPPORT THE DIRE NEED TO READ THE BIBLE
rather they will down play that and focus on a love that rather UNIFIES THEM .
BIG PROBLEM right there .
The decieved are buying into the GRAND DELUSION which has now come TO UNIFY THEM AS ONE .
thus , its like i keep saying , GET IN THEM BIBLES and DO NOT read it through the lens of them denominations
but read it for OURSELVES . we got far too many decievers that have been a decieving .

 

[Lizbeth]

but that is not what they meant .
YES many within christendom do have GOD in a box . A DEMOINATIAL box .
BUT HAD WE BEEN IN THE BIBLE , we wont fall for that carnal box .
NOR WILL WE HAVE FALLEN FOR THEIR SO CALLED BOX that came to take GOD out of the bible .
You see they are highly clever sister . cause in part they did say some truths
they did say things like denominatal doctrines and YET THEY WENT after the bible too .
WHILE as i go after denominational teachings YET I SUPPORT AND HIGHLY PLEAD FOLKS TO GET IN IT AND STAY IN IT .
THEY are very slick sister . very slick .

The problem is that different people can be reading the same bible but not be understanding everything in it the same way. We need the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth, and a lot depends on us too..eg, the condition of our "soil" at the time we are reading the word and whether we have any vested interest in how things are perceived. Holding too tightly to a wrong preconceived idea can blind us to the truth as well. There are other variables too.....such as where we are in our growth, how much of God's word has been tucked away in our hearts, and whether we have been paying the price to "buy" the truth. And I believe sometimes even God may deceive us, so to speak, through His word as a kind of judgment .....where it says in Isaiah "O Lord you have greatly deceived us, you promised us peace, whereas the sword reaches to the soul". His word and how we perceive/receive it....often tests our hearts. He hasn't worded scripture for our carnal mind....many things are unclear without the Holy Spirit's illumination, and open to being interpreted different ways....must be on purpose...and also we only know in part. The Lord is God and we are not.

 

[amigo de christo]

The problem is that different people can be reading the same bible but not be understanding everything in it the same way. We need the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth, and a lot depends on us too..eg, the condition of our "soil" at the time we are reading the word and whether we have any vested interest in how things are perceived. Holding too tightly to a wrong preconceived idea can blind us to the truth as well. There are other variables too.....such as where we are in our growth, how much of God's word has been tucked away in our hearts, and whether we have been paying the price to "buy" the truth. And I believe sometimes even God may deceive us, so to speak, through His word as a kind of judgment .....where it says in Isaiah "O Lord you have greatly deceived us, you promised us peace, whereas the sword reaches to the soul". His word and how we perceive/receive it....often tests our hearts. He hasn't worded scripture for our carnal mind....many things are unclear without the Holy Spirit's illumination, and open to being interpreted different ways....must be on purpose...and also we only know in part. The Lord is God and we are not.

We do need the HOLY SPIRIT . the problem is most either dont have it
or wont heed its unctions when men are teaching them their own doctrines .
Yes . This be the problem .
though most all would say OH I AM BEING LED o the SPIRIT . NO they are not
they are being led of men who are teaching them mens doctrines , mens interpretations .
Men twisting the very things the scriptures say , IN ORDER to fit their own doctrinal beliefs .
THE SPIRIT KEPT ME SAFE FROM ALL OF THAT . THE SPIRIT PUT ME INTO THE BIBLE to learn for myself .
And though , yes even false ones can say that same line , Watch how they twist
what is plainly written to fit some idea that men told them it meant .
YET if we just read the bible for ourselves . SEE this message is to the lambs .
Because the lambs WILL LEARN THE TRUTH . men will just give excuses .
Thus my message has always been TO THE SHEEP . GET IN THEM BIBLES , IF ONE IS HIS , THEY WILL LEARN .
if one IS HIS they will have the DESIRE , the LOVE OF TRUTH and desire to know TRUTH .
AND GOD WILL TEACH THEM , FOR IT IS GOD WHO EVEN PUT THE DESIRE and LOVE FOR THE TRUTH upon their hearts .
SO that is how simple it is . To all who have ears to hear and eyes to see the message i give is GET IN THE BIBLE
and learn for yourselves . GOD who inspired the TRUTH IN THE BIBLE , WILL INTEPRET the correct understanding
OF what HE INSPIRED unto all who are HIS . The message remains , let us get in and stay well planted in
the BIBLE for our learning . And always be encouraged in the LORD and always have All hope in HIM .
HE IS WITH US and shall be with us and shall guide us and lead us into all truth .
Its really that simple . And before folks say , but hey the kjv or etc is too hard to read
By grace i did it . And look at how often folks tell me ol amigo cannot even write in proper english .
OH IT CAN BE DONE . IN TIME IT WILL COME TOGETHER . FOR GOD is with us and shall guide us . and always
must every man or any who speaks BE TESTED . the more we are in that bible , the more true lambs are in that bible
THE SOONER they would have grown , the sooner they would have been built up and not be as many
who are so often led astray by the so called brilliance of intellecutal mens wisdom and men who do teach by it and yet twist things .

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The problem is that different people can be reading the same bible but not be understanding everything in it the same way

Absurd.

It’s either obey or disobey.

The scriptures aren’t written in a hidden way.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14, KJV)

 

[Lizbeth]

Absurd.

It’s either obey or disobey.

The scriptures aren’t written in a hidden way.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14, KJV)

Obey, of course...who is saying otherwise? I was just pointing out that there are so many different points of view in existence from reading the same book. That isn't absurd...that is just observable fact. Look at all the arguments on forums...I'm sure you must go through a lot of popcorn.

And just to say....there were things hid to me in the beginning of my faith that have since been revealed, with more to come. Isn't that true of you as well?

 

[Lizbeth]

We do need the HOLY SPIRIT . the problem is most either dont have it
or wont heed its unctions when men are teaching them their own doctrines .
Yes . This be the problem .
though most all would say OH I AM BEING LED o the SPIRIT . NO they are not
they are being led of men who are teaching them mens doctrines , mens interpretations .
Men twisting the very things the scriptures say , IN ORDER to fit their own doctrinal beliefs .
THE SPIRIT KEPT ME SAFE FROM ALL OF THAT . THE SPIRIT PUT ME INTO THE BIBLE to learn for myself .
And though , yes even false ones can say that same line , Watch how they twist
what is plainly written to fit some idea that men told them it meant .
YET if we just read the bible for ourselves . SEE this message is to the lambs .
Because the lambs WILL LEARN THE TRUTH . men will just give excuses .
Thus my message has always been TO THE SHEEP . GET IN THEM BIBLES , IF ONE IS HIS , THEY WILL LEARN .
if one IS HIS they will have the DESIRE , the LOVE OF TRUTH and desire to know TRUTH .
AND GOD WILL TEACH THEM , FOR IT IS GOD WHO EVEN PUT THE DESIRE and LOVE FOR THE TRUTH upon their hearts .
SO that is how simple it is . To all who have ears to hear and eyes to see the message i give is GET IN THE BIBLE
and learn for yourselves . GOD who inspired the TRUTH IN THE BIBLE , WILL INTEPRET the correct understanding
OF what HE INSPIRED unto all who are HIS . The message remains , let us get in and stay well planted in
the BIBLE for our learning . And always be encouraged in the LORD and always have All hope in HIM .
HE IS WITH US and shall be with us and shall guide us and lead us into all truth .
Its really that simple . And before folks say , but hey the kjv or etc is too hard to read
By grace i did it . And look at how often folks tell me ol amigo cannot even write in proper english .
OH IT CAN BE DONE . IN TIME IT WILL COME TOGETHER . FOR GOD is with us and shall guide us . and always
must every man or any who speaks BE TESTED . the more we are in that bible , the more true lambs are in that bible
THE SOONER they would have grown , the sooner they would have been built up and not be as many
who are so often led astray by the so called brilliance of intellecutal mens wisdom and men who do teach by it and yet twist things .

Amen, we need the Holy Spirit, but in spite of having the Spirit, I don't think I've come across anyone yet who is without error, brother, in spite of all our best efforts, or who doesn't need to learn more. It is a journey of learning and growing and being changed. We don't just read the bible and suddenly understand all truth, as I'm sure you'll agree. It's all things working together and over time.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

there are so many different points of view in existence from reading the same book

Yes.

All from heretics.

Heretics cannot submit to every word of God.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen, we need the Holy Spirit, but in spite of having the Spirit, I don't think I've come across anyone yet who is without error, brother, in spite of all our best efforts, or who doesn't need to learn more.

You mean you haven't found anyone that agrees with you on all points...you being the paragon of orthodoxy.

How would you know the truth is you encountered it? You have neither humility nor the fear of the Lord. As such, you will never understand anything deeper than your own mind.

It is a journey of learning and growing and being changed.

Always learning but NEVER coming to the knowledge of the truth.

We don't just read the bible and suddenly understand all truth, as I'm sure you'll agree. It's all things working together and over time.

False. The Spirit guides the disciple into ALL truth....which is an experience of Christ WHERE He is..and how He is.

There is the truth at depth...in an instant. And then there is the truth in judgment over many experiences for the facets concerning different situations. But the important thing is to know the Lord as He should known.

 

[Lizbeth]

You mean you haven't found anyone that agrees with you on all points...you being the paragon of orthodoxy.

How would you know the truth is you encountered it? You have neither humility nor the fear of the Lord. As such, you will never understand anything deeper than your own mind.


Always learning but NEVER coming to the knowledge of the truth.

False. The Spirit guides the disciple into ALL truth....which is an experience of Christ WHERE He is..and how He is.

There is the truth at depth...in an instant. And then there is the truth in judgment over many experiences for the facets concerning different situations. But the important thing is to know the Lord as He should known.

Epi, you do not know all truth.

 

[Episkopos]

Epi, you do not know all truth.

This is where your unbelief comes into play. I have known all truth...in the Person of Christ....walking In Him...walking as He did. Your position is that of an unbeliever....biblically speaking...in truth.

"Howbeit when the Spirit of truth, is come, it will guide you into all truth: for it shall not speak of itself; but whatsoever it shall hear, that shall it speak: and will shew you things to come. It shall glorify me: for it shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16

Your "progressive holiness" ideas are warned about in the bible. Always learning but NEVER coming to the knowledge of the truth...ALL truth...not partial truths. All righteousness. Saved from ALL sin.

Also you deny the power of God. And you twist the words of the bible to make it of none effect..reducing it to something you already know.

A real abider in Christ is filled with the FULNESS of God. That is so far beyond your own understanding. You have simply adopted the traditions and futility of men.

"And to know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God." Eph. 3:19

The fulness of God IS All truth. Found in Christ.

 

[Lizbeth]

This is where your unbelief comes into play. I have known all truth...in the Person of Christ....walking In Him...walking as He did. Your position is that of an unbeliever....biblically speaking...in truth.

"Howbeit when the Spirit of truth, is come, it will guide you into all truth: for it shall not speak of itself; but whatsoever it shall hear, that shall it speak: and will shew you things to come. It shall glorify me: for it shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16

Your "progressive holiness" ideas are warned about in the bible. Always learning but NEVER coming to the knowledge of the truth...ALL truth...not partial truths. All righteousness. Saved from ALL sin.

Also you deny the power of God. And you twist the words of the bible to make it of none effect..reducing it to something you already know.

A real abider in Christ is filled with the FULNESS of God. That is so far beyond your own understanding. You have simply adopted the traditions and futility of men.

"And to know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God." Eph. 3:19

The fulness of God IS All truth. Found in Christ.

The point is that people coming to Christ do not suddenly know all truth. If we can grow into that, then great. But I think it must be rare for someone to bypass the way of the cross and suddenly be in a place of perfection/maturity.

God told the Israelites He would drive out their enemies little by little. That was His wisdom.....that the "beasts" in the land not proliferate. AKA that it not spoil us and we become proud etc. The battle is necessary for us, much like the butterfly in a cocoon needs the struggle to squeeze out of the cocoon, otherwise it wouldn't be able to fly. God is so wise and knows us so well.

 

[amigo de christo]

Epi, you do not know all truth.

He dont know the true gospel sister . so even if he knew some truths , what would it matter .
The social inclusive gospel is a false hope gospel and it will save NONE .
But more and more are running right to it . That is very scary sister . for them .

 

[Episkopos]

The point is that people coming to Christ do not suddenly know all truth.

In your religious opinion. Of course the modern understanding of being born again means a simple mind decision...nothing there.

If we can grow into that, then great. But I think it must be rare for someone to bypass the way of the cross and suddenly be in a place of perfection/maturity.

The opposite is true. It is by way of the cross that the inner man is lifted into the kingdom realm.

God told the Israelites He would drive out their enemies little by little. That was His wisdom.....that the "beasts" in the land not proliferate. AKA that it not spoil us and we become proud etc. The battle is necessary for us, much like the butterfly in a cocoon needs the struggle to squeeze out of the cocoon, otherwise it wouldn't be able to fly. God is so wise and knows us so well.

Wisdom comes little by little. Understanding comes in an instant. Knowledge knows the difference.

 

[Lizbeth]

In your religious opinion. Of course the modern understanding of being born again means a simple mind decision...nothing there.

I suppose it is just a nominal belief to some, a mental assent to a religion, that is true..........but being born again means we have a genuine encounter with the Lord who reveals Himself to us and He gives us His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. Does it mean something different to you? I see indications in scripture that there may be another depth, so to speak of being born of the Spirit. Israelites being circumcised a "second time"......the natural birth process in creation itself seems to testify as well since there are two narrow passages for the baby to get through.

IF this is true, you don't seem to have any room in your theology for the first phase at all. To you, it's either all or nothing.....God has no children except the perfectly grown up ones. It's either be perfectly and fully grown up or else you are just nominal. Despise everyone who are not "perfected". Which is not how the Lord sees those who are faithful in what they have been given.

 

[Lizbeth]

The opposite is true. It is by way of the cross that the inner man is lifted into the kingdom realm.

Jesus was born and then there were 33 years to go before He was on the cross. Here again you are despising or not acknowledging what leads up to the cross. The Way....is what leads up to it. I suppose we could say it both leads up to it as well as that the Way is the cross. The cornerstone is also the capstone. You keep wanting to throw out and deny that there is a foundation. Baby, bathwater.

Wisdom comes little by little. Understanding comes in an instant. Knowledge knows the difference.

Glad at least you are acknowledging that some things we need and are worth having do come little by little.

 

[Ritajanice]

Another thought about discipleship....we are to be led by the “ Living “ Holy Spirit , only he can lead us into God’s truth , by his written word....

Our will also needs to be in harmony with the Spirit...that again needs to be learnt and understood as a disciple of Jesus....it ain’t no easy road.....but, it’s the only road that leads to life, imo/ belief.

 

[Ritajanice]

I don’t understand how God “ gives” us his Spirit....scripture says, the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, that was my encounter, Spirit gives birth to spirit....we receive the Spirit into our hearts , who has taken up permanent residence, as we have been Born Of The Spirit....which one knows 100% at regeneration..which means the same thing as Born Again...

It’s the Spiritual rebirth where God via his Spirit brings our spirit Alive...pretty “ mind blowing “...my thoughts and belief.

 

[Behold]

I don’t understand how God “ gives” us his Spirit....scripture says, the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, that was my encounter, Spirit gives birth to spirit....we receive the Spirit into our hearts , who has taken up permanent residence, as we have been Born Of The Spirit....which one knows 100% at regeneration..which means the same thing as Born Again...

It’s the Spiritual rebirth where God via his Spirit brings our spirit Alive...pretty “ mind blowing “...my thoughts and belief.

Jesus in a body is "seated in heavenly places", right now..... Just like all the born again, who are seated there "in Christ".... right now.

Isn't that a WONDER?

Jesus is in His resurrected Body, and He's also, = "Christ in you, the hope of Heaven".. if you are born again.

In John 20:22, and this is before Pentecost... .

John 20:22​

​

22 And when Jesus had said this, He BREATHED on them, ( Apostles) and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit">.​

And they DID receive it.

Jesus the "Virgin born human" now Resurrected...... just GAVE THEM THE HOLY SPIRIT..

And when He told Peter, .. ."go to Jerusalem, as the comforter will come".. . = Jesus sent it.


And in Genesis 2:7... God did the very same thing to ADAM.

This is why Jesus said.. "I and my Father are One"...
This is why Jesus said..."If you've seen me, you've SEEN The FATHER"..

This is why John 1:10 says that Jesus "made the World".

Reader, if you are born again, then that one, that Holy One, that Risen one, IS IN YOU..

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus in a body is "seated in heavenly places", right now..... Just like all the born again, who are seated there "in Christ".... right now.

Isn't that a WONDER?

Jesus is in His resurrected Body, and He's also, = "Christ in you, the hope of Heaven".. if you are born again.

In John 20:22, and this is before Pentecost... .

John 20:22​

​

22 And when Jesus had said this, He BREATHED on them, ( Apostles) and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit">.​

And they DID receive it.

Jesus the "Virgin born human" now Resurrected...... just GAVE THEM THE HOLY SPIRIT..

And when He told Peter, .. ."go to Jerusalem, as the comforter will come".. . = Jesus sent it.


And in Genesis 2:7... God did the very same thing to ADAM.

This is why Jesus said.. "I and my Father are One"...
This is why Jesus said..."If you've seen me, you've SEEN The FATHER"..

This is why John 1:10 says that Jesus "made the World".

Reader, if you are born again, then that one, that Holy One, that Risen one, IS IN YOU..

Everyone experiences the rebirth very differently Brother ,it’s not imo something we can read..it’s only by the power of the Spirit that we become Born Again and remember I was Born Again having never read a Bible.

The rebirth is a “ Living “ rebirth..and it’s done by the power of the Spirit...we play no part in the actual rebirth, where Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Believing and Faith imo comes from God...we initially believe in Jesus...then we must be Born Again by God, who gifts us the faith to believe in Jesus.

No one imo.can believe or have faith in Jesus without the Spirit...his word even says, without his Spirit we are none of His.

It’s the witness to our spirit by the Holy Spirit , he is the only one who can testify of Gods truth to our heart/ spirit, which is then relayed to our mind.

Those who believe are Born Again...how else can we believe without the Spirit of God? ..that’s why he say we must be Born Of The Spirit/ Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Then we have the Spirit of God witnessing to our spirit all day every day that we are his children.

 

[Behold]

Everyone experiences the rebirth very differently Brother

I didn't state that its all the same experience for everyone.

Some Cry, some fall down, some dont even really feel anything.

But, the ACT of the regeneration of the Spirit, = is alway the same Holy Spirit of God, causing it.

We are all born again the same way.........by the Spirit of God, and not by water as the "cult of Mary" falsely teaches.

We are all born again "by my Spirit, sayeth the Lord".

,it’s not imo something we can read..

I didnt say you could read it.

Ive no idea what you are talking about.

We BELIEVE in Jesus...., and our "faith is counted (by God) as (Christ's) Righteousness.

Preachers like me.... preach the Gospel so that people can hear it, and believe it.

If God didnt want people to hear and believe then there would be no preachers, no apostles, noone preaching this last 2000 yrs since Jesus Died and rose again.
IN Mark 16, Jesus tells us to go into the world and tell them., so that they can hear it., and believe it.

Real Preachers preach "Paul's Gospel" that is "The Gospel of the Grace of God".

A.) "Faith comes by hearing".. and that can be many ways you hear it.

For example, ive a friend who was born again, when watching "Jesus of Nazareth" the movie.

She came to the knowledge that Jesus is the Savior, and she needed Him.....while watching the movie.

= BELIEVED..

So, that is not the same as me preaching to a group, that "Jesus is virgin born, and died for your sins, and all that call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"..

So, that is the """Preaching of the Cross"",...... but my friend didnt hear it......They Watched the Jesus of Nazareth Movie and that was over 40 yrs ago.

They are still "happy in Jesus".

Now my Brother, (eldest), was a devout sinner., until he was about 40. . He was into the world... deeply lost.
And his life just sort of "bottomed out"..
He was suicidal..
He was riding around in his car one Saturday morning, about 6am, and pulled into the parking lot of a small church and the Pastor was there...
My Brother told Him .all about his "Life" situation... and the Pastor listened and finally told Him...
"""You've run out."""
"""You're ended....its at the end.. ."""
And the Pastor invited my brother to get on his knees in the office for Prayer and He did.
They both kneeled.
The Pastor led Him to Jesus Messiah .

My Brother later became a Pastor.

My Younger Brother, is a Missionary to the Ukraine., He and His wife., for over 25 yrs.
He was about 7 yrs old, when He ""received Jesus into His heart"""..... So, with a child'd mind, He did this...
I dont think he had any "theology" in there yet....
No need., as Salvation is not about Theology, its about Jesus, as Jesus Is Salvation.

Right now, he's still a missionary, and so is His wife whom he met on the Mission Field, and so were their 3 Daughters, until They were sent into the States , to go to College. in the last 4 yrs.

it’s only by the power of the Spirit that we become Born Again and remember I was Born Again having never read a Bible.

Being born again can eventually occur by reading a Jack CHICK Tract.

That is how i first learned about Jesus, when i was about 5 yrs old.

I found this Tract laying on the ground, in front of a Post Office.

I read this CHICK Tract, and it never left my heart, and when i was older, that seed planted by that STORY in that TRACT, .. entitled....
= "This was Your Life".

God watered that seed.. and i was eventually born again.. years later.

I'll post a pick of the Tract, at the bottom of this Post.

The rebirth is a “ Living “ rebirth..and it’s done by the power of the Spirit...we play no part in the actual rebirth, where Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Yes i know.

Only the Holy Spirit can "regenerate"...... yet Catholics teach you are "Born again BY Water".. which is a lie that billions of them believe.
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