The Kingdoms of the Beast

[Jay Ross]

Well, when the Scriptures say one thing, and you say a different thing (regarding seventy "sevens") by asserting a FALSE 490 year "fulfillment", then who is not reading the Posted information?!?

The TEXT does NOT allow a 490 year "fulfillment". So please start there.


Bobby Jo

You are stating your opinion about verse 24 not having a 490 years fulfilment. Under the statutes applicable during the fourth age, the nation of Israel were allowed to offer up a sin sacrifice once a year to have all of their sins in that year forgiven. That is God had allowed Israel 490 times to ask for forgiveness for their many sins of idolatrous worship once a year.

The length of a year for Israel varied from 360 to 390 years when a thirteenth month was added to make an allowance for the seasons. As such the 490 years were for 490 adjusted solar years.

If you had read my post you would have seen that the five prophecies contained in verses 24-27 are independent of each other timewise with no inter topology dependency. The road maps for all five prophecies are very different.

Shalom

 

[Bobby Jo]

You are stating your opinion about verse 24 not having a 490 years ...

My OPINION? Really? Did I state my expertise? NO, -- I merely cited Scholars: Young, Keil, & Kliefoth; as cited by Walvoord.

I had a co-worker who had dyslexia and often confused what he thought was written versus what was actually written. So let's take a second attempt at what you confused per my Post #9, with the cited sources in slightly larger text for your easier understanding:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]
_______________________________________________________________________________________
[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] IBID, p. 218​

... for further amplification please allow me to cite their conclusion in similarly larger text:

" ... an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”​

Per the above if you're not dyslexic, and it actually maybe it due to poor eyesight, then maybe the larger and bolded text might equally help!


I'm praying for you buddy,
Bobby Jo

PS Did you find the "going forth of the word" in Scripture as I suggested?

.

 

[Jay Ross]

@Bobby Jo I am just an old fart who is Frequently Arguing Religious Tripe. My experience with what John Wolvoord pens is that his views do not hold any water from which to drink.

Now could you please expand on conclusion that you said that they reached which you quoted: -

" ... an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

what the other grounds are that determine the period in question.

Shalom

 

[Bobby Jo]

what the other grounds are that determine the period in question.

Shalom

I already gave you the ~answer~ in Post #20:

“[Per Young] This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”[1]
[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224
​

So I encourage you to find IN SCRIPTURE where GOD specifically calls his chosen, and sets forth the rebuilding of the ANCIENT Door and Gates. If you find it, then you might want to "start-the-clock" on the seventy durations of time. -- And let me ask, are you familiar with the book by J.R. Church, "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"?​

It should be a simple thing to find the START of the seventy "sevens", and arrive to the "durations". Did you want me to do all the work, or did you want to do some yourself?!?


Bobby Jo

 

[Jay Ross]

Secondly, the "going forth of the word" is not as the commentators portend:

“[Per Young] This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”[1]
[1] John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224​

So I encourage you to find IN SCRIPTURE where GOD specifically calls his chosen, and sets forth the rebuilding of the ANCIENT Door and Gates. If you find it, then you might want to "start-the-clock" on the seventy durations of time. -- And let me ask, are you familiar with the book by J.R. Church, "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"?


Thanks,
Bobby Jo

I have given up reading the vast number of books out there on End Time Prophecy. I find it discouraging that so many experts have it wrong.

As regards J R Church, I have not, from recollection, read any of his books.

 

[Jay Ross]

It should be a simple thing to find the START of the seventy "sevens", and arrive to the "durations". Did you want me to do all the work, or did you want to do some yourself?!?

I really do not have the interest to chase a rabbit down its rabbit hole. I also believe that many who come to this forum would prefer posters to put forth their views so that they can reflect on the posters words.

It also seems to me that you like to put yourself up their on your pedestal of renown and look down at other people.

It would be best for you to present the facts as you understand them and allow the readers to evaluate your words as to whether or not they deserve to be filed in the WEB’S WPB.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I have given up reading the vast number of books out there on End Time Prophecy. I find it discouraging that so many experts have it wrong.

As regards J R Church, I have not, from recollection, read any of his books.

J.R. Church used to host the TV program "Prophecy In The News", with Gary Stearman. He had a research assistant, a Patricia Berry, who fielded a bunch of letters to the program, observing the "coincidental" nature of the 19th Book of the Bible (Psalms) with events of the 1900's, Chapter for year, for the Jews. For example, Book 19 Chapter 44 = 1944 Holocaust; Book 19 Chapter 48 = 1948 International Recognition of the State of Israel; Book 19 Chapter 91 = Desert Storm; etc. And the more you know about modern Jewish history, the more the Chapters appear to align with the events of the years.

So the question is, (given the Angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9): Where in the Book of Psalms do you find the MODERN call from GOD for the "going forth of the word to establish and rebuild Jerusalem"???

If we could find that Chapter with those passages, we could possibly start the seventy "sevens" which Young, Keil, & Kliefoth could anticipate but not locate.


Or so it would seem ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

I really do not have the interest ...

We all choose:

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. -- Or better rendered: The kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit, and the pursuers take it by ardent action.​

I guess this mean we won't be communing with GOD while reclining on the sofa, eating a bag of potato chips and drinking a Pepsi, while watching Oprah. -- It might take MORE.


Bobby Jo

 

[Jay Ross]

We all choose:

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. -- Or better rendered: The kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit, and the pursuers take it by ardent action.​

I guess this mean we won't be communing with GOD while reclining on the sofa, eating a bag of potato chips and drinking a Pepsi, while watching Oprah. -- It might take MORE.


Bobby Jo

I thought America's spiritual church was WWE were Evil was pitted against the not so evil and everyone was happy with the outcome when the favoured combatant finally was able to rise up against the odds and win.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I thought America's spiritual church was WWE were Evil was pitted against the not so evil and everyone was happy with the outcome when the favoured combatant finally was able to rise up against the odds and win.

Perhaps "Oprah" reruns are broadcast in Australia?!?


Bobby Jo

 

[Jay Ross]

Perhaps "Oprah" reruns are broadcast in Australia?!?


Bobby Jo

Do you think I am that depraved that I have to watch reruns of Oprah? It sounds like you do for some reason.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I really do not have the interest ...

Do you think I am that depraved that I have to watch reruns of Oprah? It sounds like you do for some reason.

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. -- Or better rendered: The kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit, and the pursuers take it by ardent action.​

I guess this mean we won't be communing with GOD while reclining on the sofa, eating a bag of potato chips and drinking a Pepsi, while watching Oprah. -- It might take MORE.
​

"I really do not have the interest ...", -- they're your words not mine! Please enjoy your "off time".


Bobby Jo

 

[Jay Ross]

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. -- Or better rendered: The kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit, and the pursuers take it by ardent action.​

I guess this mean we won't be communing with GOD while reclining on the sofa, eating a bag of potato chips and drinking a Pepsi, while watching Oprah. -- It might take MORE.
​

"I really don not have the interest ...", -- they're your words not mine! Please enjoy your "off time".


Bobby Jo

How high do I have to jump to be acceptable in your eyes?