THE LAST SUPPER

[marksman]

Yes, I know. You don't have to tell me. I am being provocative but I have to have fun now and then.

Just to put you in the picture I have made a very extensive study of this topic and have read many, many books and articles dealing with it. Soooooo, I am not just shooting from the mouth just to annoy you.

Now, to the Last Supper or the Lord's Supper or communion or mass or whatever you want to call it.

Talking from an evangelical perspective, the communion as we usually know it or perform it is NOT in scripture.

The last supper of Jesus has no bearing on what we claim it does.

Frank Viola in one of his books "Pagan Christianity" gives a potted history of communion which I agree he got right.

Prior to the Reformation, the last/Lord's supper was a Roman Catholic invention that they called mass. The idea of the reformation was to break away from the RC church which some considered apostic, and to form a new expression of Christianity, which they did...almost.

The reformation kept the RC mass and called it the Lord's Table and they kept the local priest and called him the pastor.

Read scripture with an open mind and you will get a different story. I will not go into a detailed thesis on the subject but raise a couple of points.

Jesus last supper was a once a year event, held to commemorate the Jews deliverance from Egypt and to focus on the hope of the coming Messiah. Nothing more and nothing less.

They did not meet weekly, monthly or any other time. When Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me" he said, "Do this in remembrance of me." He did not say, "Do this in remembrance of me every week with a bit of bread and a sip of wine."

The Passover meal was a meal and to serve up a bit of bread and a sip of wine would have been an insult.

So if you are going to use the last supper as authority for your communion, then you do so once a year and it is a full meal. If you don't forget it.

Point two is we have turned it into some mystical supernatural event that is supposed to confer some magical quality to it.

The fact is the last supper was a meal where all the family from grandfather down to grandchildren gathered together in the home to eat a symbolic MEAL and the senior member of the family (grandfather) recited the history of the Jews to ensure that everyone down to the grandchildren never forgot who they were and where they came from.

This was done every year without fail so it is no wonder that Jews are steeped in Jewish history. When the grandfather died, his eldest son would take over the recital and having heard the story year after year after year, he was already trained in the history so he could recite it without hesitation.

Over to you.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I am too tired and bored by now with such a cauldron of confusion.

 

[Tzephanyahu]

Shalom marksman,

I have been thinking about this as well, with the arrive of the 13th Nisan.

I wonder if we should celebrate the night before the Passover as the Lord's Last Supper. I will be doing this for the first time this week. Usually I acknowledged it on the Passover. But the last supper was indeed the night before.

Love & Shalom

 

[Butterfly]

I don't know what debate has brought this thread about, but mark , I agree with you. I started to question many things quite a few years ago, and the communion was one of them.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts xx
Rita

 

[marksman]

?

I am too tired and bored by now with such a cauldron of confusion.

??????????????????????????????????????

 

[marksman]

Shalom marksman,

I have been thinking about this as well, with the arrive of the 13th Nisan.

I wonder if we should celebrate the night before the Passover as the Lord's Last Supper. I will be doing this for the first time this week. Usually I acknowledged it on the Passover. But the last supper was indeed the night before.

Love & Shalom

Good, keep thinking as that is what I want you to do.

 

[Deborah_]

We know, however, that even at the end of the first century AD the early church was having communion weekly. But as you say, not just a bite and a sip - it was part of a real, substantial meal.

Jesus said, "Whenever..." He didn't specify how often, so there's a lot of scope for different practices.

Passover isn't the only OT prototype of Communion. There's also the Bread of the Presence in the Tabernacle, which the priests ate at the end of every week - precedent for weekly "feeding on Christ", I would think.

 

[Taken]

The Last Supper <---- OP

A Supper Gathering of Family and Friends ~
....First began (in what is now the US) with Pilgrims being THANKFUL for a Harvest of Food to last through the Winter.
(IF that was also Practiced in their homeland, or to WHOM they were Thankful, is unclear.)

Such a Yearly Supper Gathering for being Thankful for their Fall Harvest was routine on and off since the Late 1700's.

In the 1860's Then President, Abraham Lincoln made a Proclaimation on Behalf of the Citizens of the United States, by Declaring a Yearly DAY, FOR Thankfulness and Praise;
and Specifically TO WHOM, the Thankfulness and Praise, IS Directed.

" I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens."
Abraham Lincoln

So in that respect a particular Day of a Yearly Gathering of Family and Friends to Feast and Be Thankful unto our Heavenly Father IS Nationally and Individually Recognized and Practiced By Citizens of the US.

Agree, it has nothing to do with a made made Church, Catholic Mass, etc.

However i do acknowledge A Common yearly day set aside for A feast gathering of family, a Remembrance and Thankfulness to our Lord God. ( Not for release from Bondage, but rather FOR His Provisions ).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Butterfly]

So that must be the same as our harvest festival perhaps , but even that has just become a practice without any real depth x

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, only on what was said,

I am being provocative but I have to have fun now and then.

this is the Mark of a good growing christian, which is a good thing. if you cain't have fun in learning the things of our Father will/business, it make life boring.

learning our Father will is "FUN", keep up the good work.

PICJAG.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I have been thinking about this as well, with the arrive of the 13th Nisan.

I wonder if we should celebrate the night before the Passover as the Lord's Last Supper. I will be doing this for the first time this week. Usually I acknowledged it on the Passover. But the last supper was indeed the night before.

It is good to read this. Because you have discovered a definitive truth about Jesus' Last Suffering of the Passover of Yahweh.

Don't think however it means <we should celebrate the night before the Passover as the Lord's Last Supper ... with the arriv(al) of the 13th Nisan.>

The Last Supper was indeed the night before. And Jews do have their 'Bedikat Chamets' on it. But for us to acknowledge the fact does not mean we as Christians are supposed to keep the night of or the day of Abib 13 a holy day or something.

True, Christians believe and 'have Communion', i.e., 'keep The Lord's Supper'. But the correlation with the date of the month of the year no longer exists since Christ do not suffer the Passover of Yahweh another time in history, but since is CELEBRATED because "CHRIST IN IT --his Passover-of-Yahweh-Suffering--, HAD TRIUMPHED once for all TO RISE FROM THE DEAD "CHRIST AND LORD", "ON THE LORD'S DAY" of Lordly "TRIUMPH", "the Seventh Day SABBATH REST-DAY-OF THE-LORD-GOD".

Therefore as the Lord of the Victor-Lord's Victory-Supper declared, "As often as you eat", undoubtedly and indisputably "your eating and drinking" "as often", shall be "of Sabbaths' Feast of Christ The Substance and Nourishment ministered" -- ministered "on The Lord's Day" of his Lordly Victory over death and sin through RESURRECTION from the dead, and hence forever, "on the SABBATH .. the Seventh Day the LORD rested reviving and reviving rested". Exodus 31:17.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Passover isn't the only OT prototype of Communion. There's also the Bread of the Presence in the Tabernacle, which the priests ate at the end of every week - precedent for weekly "feeding on Christ", I would think.

Perfectly right on! Colossians 2:12-19.

 

[Taken]

THE LAST SUPPER ~

A gathering ~
In attendance ~
...12 men called to Follow Jesus, were also called to gather with Jesus.

Bread ~

Luke 22
[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

{take bread, give thanks, break bread...}
This DO in Remembrance of Jesus.

Matt 20
[22] But Jesus ...said ...

Are ye able to drink of "the cup"

that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
They say unto him, We are able.

Willing to drink of "THE CUP"
AND
Willing to be Baptized with Jesus' Baptism.

What CUP ?

Luke 22
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

After SUPPER ~

"THE CUP" is the New Testament, Jesus' Shed Blood, for the Willing TO Willingly DO WHAT?

Take and Receive; Jesus' Offering, Of His Blood SHED for men, Of His Offering of a Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Of His Offering to Be Hated of men, maybe KILLED by men:
For Accepting Jesus' Offering.

LAST SUPPER ~
Was NOT FOR the SAVED and QUICKENED...
It was a gathering of Brethren (Jewish men) and (Jewish men gathered as Brothers Following Jesus)....

It was A revealing of an Offering, and What would Follow for those who Accepted His Offering. (Accepting Jesus' CUP and Accept the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.)

The CUP ~ The Drinking, as Often as you drink, do so in remembrance of Jesus.

1 Cor 11:
[25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Jesus (OUR Example) further revealed...
Accepting His CUP would not always be easy.
Even Jesus ASKED; (Much like earthly men do, when their time of Death IS Known).

Mark 14
[36] And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me:

Further...

[14] nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Accepting the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, requires one to Accept Drinking of the Same CUP of willingness to Give their (Physically Bodily "Blood Life" unto Death, For thee Lord God, on the day He chooses.

It a Remembrance of Jesus and Jesus' Offering.

(Nothing implies the Remembrance of Jesus and His Offering is on particular days, or times, or in particular buildings.)

God Bless,
Taken

 

[farouk]

THE LAST SUPPER ~

A gathering ~
In attendance ~
...12 men called to Follow Jesus, were also called to gather with Jesus.

Bread ~

Luke 22
[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

{take bread, give thanks, break bread...}
This DO in Remembrance of Jesus.

Matt 20
[22] But Jesus ...said ... that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
They say unto him, We are able.

Willing to drink of "THE CUP"
AND
Willing to be Baptized with Jesus' Baptism.

What CUP ?

Luke 22
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

After SUPPER ~

"THE CUP" is the New Testament, Jesus' Shed Blood, for the Willing TO Willingly DO WHAT?

Take and Receive; Jesus' Offering, Of His Blood SHED for men, Of His Offering of a Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Of His Offering to Be Hated of men, maybe KILLED by men:
For Accepting Jesus' Offering.

LAST SUPPER ~
Was NOT FOR the SAVED and QUICKENED...
It was a gathering of Brethren (Jewish men) and (Jewish men gathered as Brothers Following Jesus)....

It was A revealing of an Offering, and What would Follow for those who Accepted His Offering. (Accepting Jesus' CUP and Accept the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.)

The CUP ~ The Drinking, as Often as you drink, do so in remembrance of Jesus.

1 Cor 11:
[25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Jesus (OUR Example) further revealed...
Accepting His CUP would not always be easy.
Even Jesus ASKED; (Much like earthly men do, when their time of Death IS Known).

Mark 14
[36] And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me:

Further...

[14] nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Accepting the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, requires one to Accept Drinking of the Same CUP of willingness to Give their (Physically Bodily "Blood Life" unto Death, For thee Lord God, on the day He chooses.

It a Remembrance of Jesus and Jesus' Offering.

(Nothing implies the Remembrance of Jesus and His Offering is on particular days, or times, or in particular buildings.)

God Bless,
Taken

From Matthew 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, Acts 2.42 and 1 Corinthians 11.26 I do think that the Lord's Supper is indeed a remembrance of the Lord Jesus for His followers.

 

[farouk]

So that must be the same as our harvest festival perhaps , but even that has just become a practice without any real depth x

There's plenty of Scripture for the Lord's Supper, but not for the harvest festival as far as the New Testament church is concerned.

 

[Taken]

So that must be the same as our harvest festival perhaps , but even that has just become a practice without any real depth x

We have all kinds of FESTIVALS, that are about a particular thing....From Apples, Alligators, Baloons, Cheese, Music, Pirates, the Dead, to Sweet Tea and just about anything you can think of.

They have nothing to do with the Lord God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[marksman]

Addressing the OP, only on what was said,

this is the Mark of a good growing christian, which is a good thing. if you cain't have fun in learning the things of our Father will/business, it make life boring.

learning our Father will is "FUN", keep up the good work.

PICJAG.

Thankyou

 

[marksman]

We know, however, that even at the end of the first century AD the early church was having communion weekly. But as you say, not just a bite and a sip - it was part of a real, substantial meal.

Jesus said, "Whenever..." He didn't specify how often, so there's a lot of scope for different practices.

Passover isn't the only OT prototype of Communion. There's also the Bread of the Presence in the Tabernacle, which the priests ate at the end of every week - precedent for weekly "feeding on Christ", I would think.

When dealing with a subject I have a habit of starting at the beginning. For me, that is Acts 2:46 which said they met DAILY. It says they did four things.

One. Apostles teaching. In this case, it was verbal mixed with what the Old Testament said about the coming Messiah bearing in mind that the original NT church were all Jews and how they understood the verbal teaching of Jesus over the last three years.

Two. Fellowship, which would have been "Hello Peter, how was the fishing last night?"

Three. Breaking of bread. I found out whilst making a study of Middle Eastern culture that if a was walking down the street and met up with someone I know, we would stop and greet each other and before separating I might say "Would you like to come round and break bread with us?" In other words, come and have a meal with us. it was always a meal, NEVER a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Having said that, if I dropped in on anyone, I would not be asked if I would like a drink. The wife of the host would AUTOMATICALLY prepare refreshments for the visit.

Four. Prayer but there was no indication of how that happened, whether it was personal or general. In fact, much of the New Testament does not say how they prayed.

Note that there was no mention of singing.

 

[Butterfly]

We have all kinds of FESTIVALS, that are about a particular thing....From Apples, Alligators, Baloons, Cheese, Music, Pirates, the Dead, to Sweet Tea and just about anything you can think of.

They have nothing to do with the Lord God.

God Bless,
Taken

Not sure, years ago I believe the farmers were actually grateful for the harvest, and did thank God. They appreciated what they had and knew a bad harvest would impact. Now we have so much that I am not sure we truly ' thank God ' in quite the same way- we often presume that the food will be there all year round.

 

[farouk]

Not sure, years ago I believe the farmers were actually grateful for the harvest, and did thank God. They appreciated what they had and knew a bad harvest would impact. Now we have so much that I am not sure we truly ' thank God ' in quite the same way- we often presume that the food will be there all year round.

Times of plenty can lead to unthankfulness, indeed.