The Lesson of Esau

[MatthewG]

Many pictures and types to learn from in the Old Testament - can make a person wise in leaning on the way God would have things done than ones own self. Which is now fulfilled in Christ Jesus - but one must learn about problems to understand how to handle it which comes through life experience of making wrong and right choices.

 

[marks]

Many pictures and types to learn from in the Old Testament - can make a person wise in leaning on the way God would have things done than ones own self. Which is now fulfilled in Christ Jesus - but one must learn about problems to understand how to handle it which comes through life experience of making wrong and right choices.

Your post reminds me of,

Jeremiah 6:16a KJV
Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

You remind me of this @marks,

The Parable of the Net

47Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was cast into the sea and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the men pulled it ashore. Then they sat down and sorted the good fish into containers, but threw the bad away.

49So will it be at the end of the age: The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous, 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

51Have you understood all these things?”

“Yes,” they answered.

52Then He told them, “For this reason, every scribe who has been discipled in the kingdom of heaven is like a homeowner who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.”

Take a look at what Jesus says again in that last verse 52.

 

[amadeus]

There's no disagreement here! Put off the old man, and put on the new. Put on the Lord Jesus Christ, adding to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge, I'm preaching to the choir!

Much love!!

How does a person know when the old man is completely gone and the new man alone remains? Perhaps the old man is the one subject to the appeal of the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life [see I John 2:15-17]. When a man is no longer tempted to go his own way instead of God's then... is the old man gone? Is he then the overcomer as per...

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Who is now partaking of that tree? Did Esau have his own appetites at the forefront while Jacob the supplanter was at least striving to move in the other direction toward God but too often and too much on his own? How close was Jacob to really being Israel at the end of his course? Was he always moving forward? Are we?

 

[MatthewG]

How does a person know when the old man is completely gone and the new man alone remains? Perhaps the old man is the one subject to the appeal of the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life [see I John 2:15-17]. When a man is no longer tempted to go his own way instead of God's then... is the old man gone? Is he then the overcomer as per...

Sometimes (from my experience)I think we let ourselves fail because of our flesh (there are something’s that are also really hard to let go of sometimes in one’s life).

The old man I knew was a lot more hateful than he use to be. That old man still thinks destructively and is only overcome by the spirit… prayer is such a good habit to have asking God to help you by the spirit and to be lead by the spirit and not the flesh.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Who is now partaking of that tree? Did Esau have his own appetites at the forefront while Jacob the supplanter was at least striving to move in the other direction toward God but too often and too much on his own? How close was Jacob to really being Israel at the end of his course? Was he always moving forward? Are we?

These are good questions.

 

[amadeus]

@MatthewG

And if we are on the road but not yet to the end of the road and face to face with God, could this be why still fail at times and are tempted at times and even succumb to temptations at times?

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man" James 1:13

"And us... are we as yet so much like God that we are no longer tempted" James 1:13

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" I John 3:2 ... the face to face vision?

 

[Robert Gwin]

We need to go by what the Bible says about Esau, and it clearly says that he was NOT a good person in God's estimation: Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. (Hebrews 12:16,17)

The Bible calls Esau " a profane person" (KJB). The Greek word βέβηλος means "ungodly" or "unhallowed". Then we have to look at the history of Israel (from Jacob) and Edom (from Esau). The Edomites were bitter enemies of the Israelites. God put a curse on Edom.

Hi Enoch, I very much appreciate your bringing this to my attention sir. I have often stated what I teach may or may not be correct, and I am afraid I have made a distinct error here by speaking without full knowledge. I believe you are absolutely correct Enoch. I was basing my opinion on the great reception with Jacob, and mistakenly understood the words exchanged there. I also believe I was confusing him with Abraham's son Ishmael. It was extremely nice you bringing that error to my attention Enoch, I cannot thank you enough as I strive for accuracy sir. I am a moron most of the time.

 

[marks]

How does a person know when the old man is completely gone and the new man alone remains?

I don't think we do know, I think this is what Paul was expressing in,

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

That Jesus is The One Who is qualified to say this.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Methinks that you still missed the point. Consider here the words of John the Baptist:

"He must increase, but I must decrease" [John 3:30] and ask God to help you apply them to yourself.

Consider what Jesus did:

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

Who can do that alone? Jesus told us to ask for help, did he not? When should we stop asking?

I think it's in the different ways we see our salvation, that you are increasing into salvation, and I am increasing in salvation, that is, may it be so in us!

Much love!

 

[marks]

well, it appears that he felt he needed some red stew, or he would die
ha, even the marrying outside the fam…anyway, i would want to know whether or not you are waiting for Jesus to do anything etcetc the q above, to reply to this

Did my answer satisfy you?

what is red stew in that analogy, marks
or, why did Adam hide
or, why did Jonah sit under the bush whatever,
all the same

I've been thinking about this . . . each was a retreat into self. But then so much is. That can be said for many people at many times, I think!

But that's what Esau did, he concluded what was going to happen, he concluded what must happen to prevent that outcome, and demanded it be the way he said no matter the cost.

God desires obedience and not sacrifice, yet in the case of disobedience, sacrifice was what He commanded. And He sent Jesus to offer His Own body for us. He sacrificed Himself to give us a way out of our death in sin into life in Him. To give us a "survivable death". That's how I see it. The Bible speaks of His offering His body.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I think it's in the different ways we see our salvation, that you are increasing into salvation, and I am increasing in salvation, that is, may it be so in us!

Much love!

Perhaps the word, itself, salvation, and what it is, as opposed to what people believe it to be, is part of the problem.

What are the first things? What should they be? Is salvation according to any man's definition a part of them? Should it be?

"Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you" Matt 6:33


If salvation is merely one of those things to be added, a person who fails to seek the correct things first could be disappointed. Who are we living for...? For ourselves or for God?

 

[marks]

Perhaps the word, itself, salvation, and what it is, as opposed to what people believe it to be, is part of the problem.

Yes, I think this is our difference in understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong, you're view is that we are growing more and more into Christ (if we are) in hope that by the end we will be sufficiently like His so as to be accepted by God. He who overcomes all his temptation and sin through receiving Christ's strength by faith. Is that right?

My view, meanwhile, is that we are accepted by God because of Jesus alone, that we don't do anything to be acceptible to Him, there is nothing we could do. Having been received by Him He gives us new life, and we are growing in the living of that new life. Are we saved to live with Him? Yes. Will all have the same reward, the same outcome? I don't think so.

I think we will be equal in the way of new life, and that rewards and honor and glory will show our diligence to heed His Word in this world. Our commitment to loving others.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Yes, I think this is our difference in understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong, you're view is that we are growing more and more into Christ (if we are) in hope that by the end we will be sufficiently like His so as to be accepted by God. He who overcomes all his temptation and sin through receiving Christ's strength by faith. Is that right?

Not so simple nor so complex!

Life is in the growth toward without regard to the length of our sojourn here in this place of death. The Way to move in that direction is to surrender trusting [having faith in] Him. God will help us surrender if we ask Him and we strive. If we are unwilling to give it all that we have, we are in trouble. Without the Holy Spirit there is no Life.

My view, meanwhile, is that we are accepted by God because of Jesus alone, that we don't do anything to be acceptible to Him, there is nothing we could do. Having been received by Him He gives us new life, and we are growing in the living of that new life. Are we saved to live with Him? Yes. Will all have the same reward, the same outcome? I don't think so.

The new Life given is the opportunity to do right what our first natural parents failed to do. Like them, we also may fail. That is not on God, but on us.

I think we will be equal in the way of new life, and that rewards and honor and glory will show our diligence to heed His Word in this world. Our commitment to loving others.
Much love!