The lies about gen 6

[Moriah's Song]

You have ignored the verses or misrepresented them.

And you are referring to what verses I ignored or misrepresented please?

 

[Moriah's Song]

there is no such thing as an imaginary and fantastical "line of Seth"

The line of Seth to Jesus

 

[Randy Kluth]

And I showed you that no where else in the OT do we see bene elohim , or children of God used at all!. In the NT believers are called children of god for NT believers are adopted.

We've already discussed this, and you've not shown yourself to be sufficiently knowledgeable of Greek to be able to pin down this point. For all I know, the term has a twist that uniquely fits in Gen 6 without contradicting the idea that it is humans being talked about--not angels.

The use of the same form in another location which in context applies to angels does *not* prove it has the same definition and the same application to angels in Gen 6. That is totality transfer of a word meaning from one context to another.

And this is a misnomer and does not prove your case. This is based on an interpretive fallacy, as I've showed you.

And good scholars argue from both sides. So unless you have more to add on this, quit using the argument. It is weak and now is getting repetitive.

Yes God is god in both testaments, but how He deals with His people in differing times has varied greatly. Israel was under a theocracy, the church is not, to name just one of many differences.

Christian States were theocracies in a similar way to the way Israel applied them. They followed God's Law as supreme over all other religions. A Christian State treats Christian truth in much the same way. The pagan world and liberals treat this as "intolerance." But God sees it as the "narrow way." To impose religion on a society that rejects that religion is not a theocracy--it is rather very ripe for revolution. A true theocracy has the support of the vast majority of the population to accept a particular religion.

Yes it would! but as you have failed to provide any empirical biblical evidence to say your assumption they are men, under than unsupported hypotheses, I will let the fact that the phrase "bene-elohim" means angels as it does the other 3 times it is used in the OT.

And as I'm saying, that argument doesn't hold water, any more than DC Talk has to refer to political conversation in Washington DC. Even if DC Talk *always* refers only to political conversation in Washington DC, the moment the same term is used in a different context indicates there is no static definition of the term. Words are flexible creatures, and they must be interpreted by how the user is using the term *in context!* I will not relent on this point. You absolutely have not made your case.

You OTOH require multiple suppositions in yo0ur hypotheses to support that bene elohim is some righteous line of Seth (like there were no unrigfhteous in Seth).

Not at all. The evidence that Seth maintains a line of those who call on the name of the Lord is here:

Gen 4.26 Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh. At that time people began to call on the name of the Lord.

And can you show that worship is corrupted by marrying pretty women? Can you also shjow that marrying pretty women is a sin? Can you show that not onew of these women were daughters of Seth?

It's all about context. And I think the idea is pretty clear. These are people who had called upon the name of the Lord, now giving up their standards for physical beauty and physical attractiveness. It is a theme Moses carries out throughout the Pentateuch. You can see this in the story of Phinehas in Numbers 25.

 

[Moriah's Song]

*הַנְּפִלִ֞ים (han-nə-p̄i-lîm) = the Nephilim. Gesenius acknowledges that some interpret these as the offspring of "fallen angels".

That is not the entirity of what the Lexicon says. However, it does say that it means "giants" though because the verse only says that "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, AND ALSO AFTERWARDS, when the Sons of God came into the daughters of men, and they bore children to them." It does not say that the "Sons of God" came into "the daughters of giants or angels." If the text demanded the word "angels" there exited a Hebrew(?) word for that.

 

[Taken]

And the scriptural proof of your "opinions" are what?....

In reference to "theefaith's" question: Can angels be married and have sex?

Your reply to that was....
Again neither one of you have provided verses to back up your statements. [/QUOTE].

Yes, in an earlier post.

Job 38: ——> holy angels
[7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

1 John 3:——-> Converted men
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Opinions are like "reeds blowing in the wind" meaning they are always unstable, most of the time untruthful and ususally unreliable. Only God's word in context is stable, truthful and reliable.

Read, study, learn.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Job 38: ——> holy angels
[7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Didn't find the words "holy angels" anywhere in Job 38 nor does anything in verses 6,7 & 8 have anything to do with Gen. 6:4. As I said "opinions (not based on scripture) are like "reeds blowing in the wind."
6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof,
7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or [who] shut up the sea with doors,

 

[Moriah's Song]

1 John 3:——-> Converted men
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Again this verse has NO relation to Gen.6:4. These are verses in the NT that should shed some light on whether or not angels marry or not...

Luk 20:34-36..."And Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."

 

[Taken]

Didn't find the words "holy angels" anywhere in Job 38 nor does anything in verses 6,7 & 8 have anything to do with Gen. 6:4. As I said "opinions (not based on scripture) are like "reeds blowing in the wind."
6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof,
7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or [who] shut up the sea with doors,

Read, learn, study.
Job 38:
[7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Do you not know who the morning stars are, that were singing?
Do you not know who all the sons of God shouting were?
Do you not know why they were singing and shouting for joy?
Do you not know mankind had NOT been created yet?

The Words are in Scripture....Scriptural words.
Your words do not matter. Your lack of knowledge and understanding does not matter.

 

[Taken]

Again this verse has NO relation to Gen.6:4. These are verses in the NT that should shed some light on whether or not angels marry or not...

Luk 20:34-36..."And Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."

Oh good grief. Heavenly, holy angels DO NOT MARRY.
Holy Angels could and can move about from Heaven to Earth.
Holy Angels that FALL FROM BEING Holy, are no longer holy, they can not go back up to Heaven. They have lost their status of “holy”. They have lost their “estate” Heaven. They will also lose their current estate “on earth”....and be confined to “hell’”.

Men in their flesh body’s, on earth marry.
Departed Souls of men, spirits of men DO NOT MARRY.
Saved departed souls of men, spirits of men Rise up to Heaven (and wait until their body is risen up in glory).

 

[Timtofly]

And as I'm saying, that argument doesn't hold water, any more than DC Talk has to refer to political conversation in Washington DC. Even if DC Talk *always* refers only to political conversation in Washington DC, the moment the same term is used in a different context indicates there is no static definition of the term. Words are flexible creatures, and they must be interpreted by how the user is using the term *in context!* I will not relent on this point. You absolutely have not made your case.

Did you know that DC Talk was also a Christian rock group?

 

[Timtofly]

Read, learn, study.
Job 38:
[7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Do you not know who the morning stars are, that were singing?
Do you not know who all the sons of God shouting were?
Do you not know why they were singing and shouting for joy?
Do you not know mankind had NOT been created yet?

The Words are in Scripture....Scriptural words.
Your words do not matter. Your lack of knowledge and understanding does not matter.

The stars are the angels created on day 4.

The sons of God are humans created on day 6.

One sang and the other shouted back. That was reality for 1000 years. Then Satan was allowed to rebel with a third of the angels. Those angels stopped singing, and have been chained in darkness for 6000 years.

Adam was placed in the Garden and was given a simple task. Don't let sin into the world. It is plausible that 30 years later, Adam disobeyed God. Jesus was claimed to be about 30 years of age when He was baptized in obedience to God, that led to the Atonement on the Cross 3.5 years later. God did not let Moses record the exact details of all the time that expired after the 6th Day. I am pretty sure that humans claiming that angels procreate with humans goes directly against the words of Jesus the Word of God. Also Job 38:7 are the exact words of God in the Word of God. God declared He created angels and humans at the same creation week, and there literally was no former creation prior to Genesis 1:1. So God created the stars/angels on the 4th day. God created the sons of God/humans on the 6th day. God told us in Job using symbolism a fact that tells us from Genesis 1 the exact day of their creation. We also know that the sons of God were created as many, not just a single soul called Adam. All Genesis 2 does is add a little more detail to what was done on the 6th day. It was not to limit the day 6's creation to just Adam, but add more detail.

 

[Moriah's Song]

When the morning stars sang together

The PULPIT COMMENTARY has this....

Verse 7. - When the morning stars sang together. The stars generally, or the actual stars visible on the morn of creation, are probably meant. They, as it were, sang a song of loud acclaim on witnessing the new marvel. Their priority to the earth is implied, since they witness its birth. Their song is, of course, that silent song of sympathy, whereof Shakespeare speaks when he says, "Each in its motion like an angel sings" ('Merchant of Venice,' act 5. sc. 1). And all the sons of God shouted for joy. "The sons of God" here must necessarily be the angels (see Job 1:6; Job 2:1), since there were no men as yet in existence. They too joined in the chorus of sympathy and admiration, perhaps lifting up their voices (Revelation 5:11, 12), perhaps their hearts only, praising the Creator, who had done such marvellous things. Job 38:7​

God is challenging Job concerning the plan of the creation of the earth on which the human race would dwell. Genesis 6:4 is long after the creation of Adam and his descendants and just before the flood.

Bottom line still is the humans do not have sex with angels if that is what your position is.

 

[Taken]

The stars are the angels created on day 4.
The sons of God are humans created on day 6.

It is reasonable to presume, Holy Angels were created “out” of their Estate.
It is revealed Mankind, was created “out” of their Estate.

Mankind WAS not, IS not, called a “son of God” on the day it WAS or IS created.

*Disagree with your interpretation.
*God IS Light, without beginning. Light existed Before Gods Creation.
- Two estates are created in the beginning of Gods Creation;
...1) the Heavens
...2) the Earth

*Follow the ORDER;
AS the Earth is Being Created...
...1) Two in their Estate, are singing, called morning stars
...2) Many are shouting for joy, referenced as holy angels, heavenly stars, sons of God.

*Follow the ORDER;
Before Man is Created out of his Estate, Earth. Before man is called “A” son of God.
...1) One morning star, called; (a devouring Lion) called “son of the morning” is cast out of his ESTATE, Heaven; down to his new ESTATE, Earth. (Isa 14:12)
...2) One morning star, called; (a saving Judah Lion) Later, a Star is revealed out of Jacob (ie ISRAEL), ON Earth, called “the bright morning Star”, “THE” Son of God. (Num 24:17 ~ Rev 22:16)

*Follow the ORDER;
~ “sons of God”......are holy creations of God....”holy angels”
*All with FREEWILL...to remain “holy”; to KEEP their heavenly Estate; or Freely choose to FALL from “holiness”.

*Follow the ORDER;
* Fallen angels “sons of God”; Fall “DOWN” from their Estate, Heaven; Fall “DOWN” from their status of “holy”, lose their title, “son of God”.
* Mankind (was NOT created and made..holy)...Mankind WAS created and made “VERY GOOD”.
* Mankind fell from his status, of “very good”, and became subject to experiencing BODILY Death, on his Estate, Earth.
* Mankind WAS offered a WAY, to become transformed INTO a “holy” being.
* Mankind which rejects the Offering, SHALL lose his ESTATE, and Fall DOWN, to his new Estate; Hell.
* Mankind which accepts the Offering, SHALL be “MADE” holy, by the Power of God, SHALL Keep His ESTATE (Earth), AND have access to the Heavens, and SHALL assume the “the Title”, of “son of God.”

~ “sons of God”....are mankind which are ‘MADE’ holy. by, through, of the Power of God, to transform, mankind, HAVING FALLEN FROM, “VERY GOOD”, TO BEING OFFERED A WAY, TO: become “made” holy; and have the title: “son of God”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The PULPIT COMMENTARY has this....

Verse 7. - When the morning stars sang together. The stars generally, or the actual stars visible on the morn of creation, are probably meant. They, as it were, sang a song of loud acclaim on witnessing the new marvel. Their priority to the earth is implied, since they witness its birth. Their song is, of course, that silent song of sympathy, whereof Shakespeare speaks when he says, "Each in its motion like an angel sings" ('Merchant of Venice,' act 5. sc. 1). And all the sons of God shouted for joy. "The sons of God" here must necessarily be the angels (see Job 1:6; Job 2:1), since there were no men as yet in existence. They too joined in the chorus of sympathy and admiration, perhaps lifting up their voices (Revelation 5:11, 12), perhaps their hearts only, praising the Creator, who had done such marvellous things. Job 38:7​

God is challenging Job concerning the plan of the creation of the earth on which the human race would dwell. Genesis 6:4 is long after the creation of Adam and his descendants and just before the flood.

Bottom line still is the humans do not have sex with angels if that is what your position is.

Bottom line, you show yourself to be without Spiritual understanding.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Bottom line, you show yourself to be without Spiritual understanding.

Andyou are out of line. You can be reported for that degrading comment. Simply because you disagree with my saying "Bottom line still is the humans do not have sex with angels if that is what your position is." that does not give you the authority to determine that "I am without Spiritual understanding." It is clear that throughout the Bible that at various times and in various ways, God sends angels to mankind for a specific purpose....but in no instance in scripture does it ever say that mankind marries or has sex with angels.

 

[Ziggy]

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Jde 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jde 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Wash, rinse, repeat...

History repeats itself...
At the end of this age, those who have overcome are rewarded and get to return again as Kings and Priests to rule over the earth.
The new earth. And some will fall... again...

Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Jhn 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

all the end(s) ....
and beginning(s)

Eze 36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

It's all about the in's and out's.
They went out from us.... what is out? liars, thieves.. daughters of men.

You might look at it as those in the church fornicating with those outside the church...
being unequally yoked..

They left their first estate.. their height, their stature. And joined with those on the "outside" .
Liars, theives, murderers, idolaters...
They abode not in the truth..

Adam and Eve (Sons of God) ... don't get hung up on gender..
Cain went somewhere and found himself a wife... she was "outside" , daughter of men.
Sons of God went unto the daughters of men..
they left their first estate...

And here we are the offspring of those who came after the fall.
And after this "end" it will "begin" again.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth... In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth...
world without end.

History repeats itself.. the future is now.. tomorrow is yesterday..
Exo 15:18 The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.

Exo 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

For ever is a long long long long time...

1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Psa 148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
Psa 148:2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
Psa 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Psa 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Psa 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
Psa 148:6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.

There is no new thing under the sun.

I believe some are punished and sent here to this place we call earth.
I believe some come here willingly to lead those who have gone astray back home.
Some of us get caught up with the world along the way, and other's stay the course.

The parable of the sower.

Who are the giants?
The evil ones running the world today.
They have no mercy, no compassion, no empathy, no truth.
They control everything, except for those who choose Truth.
And it's making them very angry...

So angry they will try and destroy the world.
But God will make a new one and we will begin again.

We are the sons of God.. and we will sing when the new heaven and the new earth is re-created... again.
For ever and ever..
Amen

Hugs

 

[Moriah's Song]

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

1- Giants are not angels.
2- Sons of God are not angels.
3- Daughters of men are not angels.

You seem to skip over...."AND ALSO AFTER THAT....

 

[Ziggy]

1- Giants are not angels.
2- Sons of God are not angels.
3- Daughters of men are not angels.

You seem to skip over...."AND ALSO AFTER THAT....

Angels are messengers.
period
Hugs

 

[Taken]

Andyou are out of line. You can be reported for that degrading comment. Simply because you disagree with my saying "Bottom line still is the humans do not have sex with angels if that is what your position is." that does not give you the authority to determine that "I am without Spiritual understanding." It is clear that throughout the Bible that at various times and in various ways, God sends angels to mankind for a specific purpose....but in no instance in scripture does it ever say that mankind marries or has sex with angels.

You are not hesitant in stating your opinion to me of reeds blowing in the wind....Do not provoke then complain with a threat.

Human females DID have sexual intercourse with Angels.
Angels that fell from holiness, taking human female wives, God Himself contended with, and nothing reveals that act of fallen Angels continues.

 

[Ziggy]

Giants are Tyrants, Bullies.

nᵉphîyl, nef-eel'; or נְפִל nᵉphil; from H5307; properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:—giant.