The Lord and forgiveness

[Karl Peters]

I like to point people to the Lord and His voice. I believe that He needs to personally teach people. It is written that they will all be taught of God - which to me means actually listening to the small voice of His and what He has to say. He is also Lord, and so He give instructions. He was asking me to go over some of the things He has taught me about forgiveness. While 'Forgiveness' is a very important topic often brought up in church, I still find that the importance and many aspects usually get missed. I was talking to Him about that and He asked me to bring it up here.

Forgiveness is a judgement!!!!!

I remember when the Lord gave me a big teaching about how 'Forgiveness is a judgement'. It was just a day of so before someone leading a Bible study I was attending was trying to talk about forgiveness. I tried to add that information to the study but the leader of the study just couldn't accept that statement. That is sad because understanding that "Forgiveness is a judgement" is crucial to understanding the importance of forgiveness!

It is written that how you judge so shall you be judged. And it is pointed out how precise this statement it.

Mat 7:2 “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

So what if you just take the approach in life that instead of looking to see if they have done something wrong you instead take the approach the if anyone has done something wrong to you they are forgiven?

If God is fair in His judgement what approach must He have concerning you? God would have to judge you to be forgiven in order to measure out to you like you measured out to others!

Instant Forgiveness!

The Lord has brought up to me the value of "Instant Forgiveness"! I have things I have to do, and they involve trying to get things better. Getting things better also involves hearing the Lord, and it turns out that He is a forgiving person because He too is trying to make things better. Therefore, taking my time to concern myself with judging people guilty and hold grudges and judgements against them is just counter productive. It does not help me hear from the Lord who is a forgiving person, nor does it keep me on the things I need to do. So I might as well just instantly forgive them and get onto what needs to be done!! And the Lord is always more than willing to advise me as to what needs to be done.

Now it might be that someone doing something wrong needs correction. The Lord can tell me if correction or a teaching needs to be passed on. It's like this thread. He advised me to pass on this teaching on forgiveness which should help bring correction to His body, but know that He has already forgiven us. So this is not a judgment but a teaching meant to make things better.

Healing and Forgiveness!

The Lord had me help in a Christian healing ministry for five years. Anyone who has worked in a Christian healing ministry must have found out about the importance of forgiveness in healing. You find out that often we don't see healing because of lack of forgiveness.

Mat 6:15 “But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

The above verse is absolutely critical to know and understand if you are in a Christian healing ministry!!!

Now to be sure, the most important thing when working in a Christian healing ministry is to listen to the Lord and follow His instructions!! However, doing that soooo often winds up hearing Him tell you to lead people through forgiveness. In fact it happens so often that I have found that many people working in that Christian healing ministry just started by trying to lead people through forgiveness even before they sought the Lord. You don't want to do that, but I understand why they started doing that. Forgiveness, and the lack there of is probably the main reason we see hurting and sick people in the church.

If you are judging other people other than being forgiving, then the judgement of the Father is going to be that your transgressions are not going to be forgiven either. So are you hurting or needing healing in your life. Start by seeking the King of kings and Lord of lord and continue by forgiving others!

Pray the Lord's prayer, and listen!

Jesus told us how to pray during that special time we put aside for God. It has the correct order and the correct things to ask for. It has in it a request for forgiveness.

Mat 18:22,23 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. “For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.

I mentioned that I am looking to make things better, which is also what the Lord is looking to do. You ask, like in the Lord prayer and remember to also forgive others like brought up earlier, then He is going to forgive you, because He is trying to settle accounts in order to make things better. He wants to get you working on the right track. The Lord's prayer will get you on the right track, so I pray it every morning then listen to the Lord.

Testimonies: - continued

 

[Karl Peters]

In the Bible we find testimonies about how sometime Jesus just forgave a person and they were healed.

Luke 5:24 “But, so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,”—He said to the paralytic—“I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home.” Immediately he got up before them, and picked up what he had been lying on, and went home glorifying God.

When working in the healing ministry I found that this sometime happened. The forgiveness would just heal the person. Ok, normally we would lead a person through forgiveness, the pray for healing, and then see the person get healed - but things don't always work the same. It's not an exact science, it is a relationship we have with our Lord Jesus Christ. So it is listen and obey, because there is no other way, but in that listen and obey we often worked with forgiveness and people got healed.

Sometimes just the forgiveness got them healed. More often we saw healing after going through forgiveness then praying for them. Sometime He wanted us to pray for them to me healed and we saw it. Sometimes He asked us to pray for them, then had us lead them through forgiveness and we saw the healing. Sometimes we did as He asked and we didn't see the healing or often we saw them get some healing but not all. And there were times He I just hear Him ask me to just declare them forgiven!

Jn 20:23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

Jesus said He did what He saw the Father do. The Father gave Him authority, and even authority to forgive sins. So it should not be surprising that He also gave us authority to forgive sins!! Jesus on the cross forgave us our sins. Now the Father also gave Jesus the authority to retains the sins of any, but that we don't see Him doing that much. Still, He also gives you the authority to retains sins also. It is called 'a curse'. The problem with a curse, nor forgiving others but retaining their sins, is that as you judge so shall you be judged. The fairness of God would dictate that if you don't forgive others and retain their sins then the ultimate Judge (God - and Jesus Christ is God) will have to retain your sins because He is also a fair and just God!

If you do indeed listen to our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, as the Word of God He will personally teach you this information, like He taught me. So if you believe in Him you will forgive other because He taught you to!! You won't be making curses by holding onto other's sins! You will be into instant forgiveness, because that makes things better. So believing in Him and forgiveness go hand and hand. But I have meet many many "Christians" saying that they are unwilling to forgive others. That tells me right away that they are not listening to the Lord!!

 

[Pearl]

@Karl Peters - Do you mean like when we come to Jesus and seek God's forgiveness we are then already judged?

 

[Karl Peters]

@Karl Peters - Do you mean like when we come to Jesus and seek God's forgiveness we are then already judged?

You might have already passed through Judgement!!

However, that being said people should know that Jesus is already King and takes action accordingly. Yes - there is a day for many in which a judgement is made as to eternity, but don't let that lead you into thinking that the Word of God (Jesus Christ) is not alive, active, and making judgements that concern you now!! Have we not read where the Lord says, "Vengeance is Mine." He does that, and it mean a judgment was made by Him. There is also something written about Him punishing some now so they don't have to be punished in the next life.

There is an issue with many Christians which Paul brings up in Romans 10 - and it has to do with saying in your heart that the Christ is either dead or far off in heaven to return someday. That is not the Word of God we are preaching though. He is the Word of God and He is Lord now!! As Lord He makes judgements. Of course He does actually make them Himself, but He explained that as He hears He judges!! How did we miss that? Is it because we are not listening to Him now???

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Note in the above verse it reads "I Judge" - so He did not say "I will judge" but rather "I judge" - it is a present tense not a future tense.

The person that doesn't understand that is thinking that Jesus Christ is not on the throne and taking action now!! That can only happen if they are not listening to Him on days called "Today". They don't really know Him as their Lord, because anyone knowing the Lord knows He makes judgements "Today". Ok - not that final Judgement! That judgement day is really going to be a bad day for those who don't know Him, where as on that day those who already know Him as their Lord don't come into that judgement! That is why Jesus explain about already passing out of judgement.

And look closer at this verse:

Jn 8:11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”

Jesus makes a judgment right in that verse; it is a judgment not to "condemn" that lady. And why did He make that judgement?????
Because the others didn't judge her!!! We need to very careful what we judge, because it effects others and it also effects ourselves. In that regard we need to seek the voice of the Lord and listen to God!! Note: In the above story Jesus said let the one with out sin throw the first stone!! The Law was placed on stone!!! And only Jesus Christ is without sin, so before you going throwing the law at people you need to seek the voice of the Lord least your judgement, instead of His, come back on you. Fortunate for that lady, that they took her captive to Jesus Christ and actually wound up listening to Him. Is that the way we do it?? We have judges in this world and if any of them were really wise they would be taking all judgements to Jesus Christ and they would be listening to Him. And what about if you are called to jury duty? Are you not going to seek the voice of the Lord there so you don't have something come back on you? I recommend that you don't judge but as you hear you judge.

 

[Karl Peters]

This thread is about forgiveness, but I assure you that forgiveness is a judgement!!

Now we are all given things to judge!! Yet even on those it is best to take all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ!

When He came into my life I was a retail manager. Specifically I was the front end manager in a big box store. So I had been given authority to make judgements about that part of the store, and sometimes even more. After closing time there was usually only one manager, and the store had to be clean and straightened for the next day. If I was closing I had to make sure that is was cleaned and straighten up to the standards we wanted. I had a judgement to make as to whether it was good enough or not. We didn't leave until I said so. One day I went to tell some of the sales floor people how to do it. They were not happy with me telling them how, and it turned out that the Lord wasn't either. He gave me a little 'how to do it' right then. He gave me a teaching about judgement and authority, via that small voice of His. He explained that while I had been given the authority to judge the condition of the sales floor, I had not been given the authority to teach them how to do it! The sales floor employees were upset about me exceeding my authority, He explain. I had to apologize to them. He explained that it was ok that I requested it be done better and even point out things I felt were not good enough, because I had been given that authority, but I need to stay in the bounds of my authority.

It was a very interesting teaching. So it is that I turn people to Him to learn!! At the beginning of this thread I explained that is what I like to do, turn people to Him so that they listen and learn from Him!! But I also explained that He asked me to go over this forgiveness issue. Forgiveness is a judgement, and basically it is a judgment that something was not right but that it is ok. We are working on getting things right to make them better and not about condemning others. The Lord forgives you, but that just means He is about pointing out how we don't get things right and teaching us to do them better and not into condemning us!

Maybe we need to clean up the house of God a little better before we go home! That is what the forgiveness of God is about. It is about getting us home, not that He does not make judgements about what we need to do better!

 

[Pearl]

I have believed for a long time that after we seek God's forgiveness when we come to Christ and are born again we have then been judged, forgiven and made righteous.

 

[Karl Peters]

I have believed for a long time that after we seek God's forgiveness when we come to Christ and are born again we have then been judged, forgiven and made righteous.

Jn 3:7,8 “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

That is to say you start hearing from the Holy Spirit who does not speak on His own initiative, but as He hears from the Lord Jesus Christ (The Word of God) He speaks to our spirit.

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

And so it is that we hear from Jesus Christ, vis His Holy Spirit, and thus find Him and His words in our heart and sometime in our mouth. How well do we pay attention? If we do pay attention He reproves us, corrects us, teachings us, instructions us, encourages us, gives us wisdom, knowledge, and understanding. Because we get all that we find out that we are not the righteous One - He is!! So He doesn't make us "righteous" but rather He reckons "righteousness" to us. I mean - a student rarely gets everything right or why are they being taught? Yet learning is the right thing to do, so our unrighteousness is not counted against us - thus we are forgiven our "unrighteousness"!!!!

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Thus, the person thinking that He made them righteous is just deceiving themselves and they are not learning from the Truth!! Indeed, if a person thinks they are now made righteous, they certainly think they don't need to ask the Lord for forgiveness - so they wouldn't pray the Lord's prayer which has the request to for us out transgressions!

1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. The cleansing come from His forgiveness, not our now doing everything right!! Indeed, the more you actually talk to Him and get His teachings, the more you come to understand how far off you are from being right!!

Saul - that religious pharisee thought he was right in what he did, even though he was on his way to Damascus to put Christian's in jail. Saul did not have forgiveness nor understanding in his heart. He did not listen to the Lord. So when the Lord suddenly broke through to Him saying " “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” - Saul would up asking, "“Who are You, Lord?”

Yet Paul, that Christian man who Saul became and who wrote from understanding, put down:

Rom 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

That is the man with some understanding, knowing that he needs to pray for forgiveness regularly!!

Certainly, the writer of many Scriptures, called Paul, was much more aware than the pharisee often called Saul - yet Paul was much more aware of what he was doing wrong and the effect of sin on him, thus his need for forgiveness from the Lord Jesus Christ So the real Christian is more aware of his short comings, due to the relationship they develop with a perfect God.

We need to stop deceiving ourselves and start actually seeking our Lord for what He has to say to us. If we do actually seek Him and His voice we find out that He reproves those He loves - us!! Did we not read that?

Rev 3:19,20 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Look - If anyone truly starts spending time listening to the Lord they will know that He is going to teach you, reprove you, and show you how to do things better - because He wants to help us, and just declaring a person to be righteous does not make them better. Of course focusing on their unrighteousness is just going to discourage them, so He forgives us, but forgiveness means we did things wrong but it is not going to be counted against us!!! Forgiveness does not mean we did thing right, as in being righteous, but it means we did things wrong but it's ok - just try to do better the next time! That is what forgiveness is about!!!!!