The Lord's Side (Remaining neutral and non partisan)

[Renniks]

Politics is not of God...but of this world subject to the devil. Are you a cultural Christian? A sunday believer? Are you more worldly than spiritual? Do you even understand what I'm talking about?

Politics aren't inherently evil. If anyone sounds like a Sunday believer, it would be the one who is saying we should not engage in the culture.
If a person can do good in the political realm and that's his calling, he should.

 

[Timtofly]

It is not about politics, everything as we know it has come to an end. Not the end of existence. The end of the church age.

You all have to just get that song into your head, God gave to our children a few years ago, "LET IT GO".

It is time to repent, ask God to use you, then obey God. We can do all things, we just have to let all things go, so we are not holding things, but doing things. For all things done for Christ will last. If you all think it is too soon, and no one can know, then it can never be too soon.

 

[FHII]

Jesus was not of this worl

Because the momentum is shifting to black racism against whites. Everybody knows of the racist tendencies of white believers. The KKK claim to be Christians...but cultural Christians...like so many in the West.

I'm not satisfied with your answer. That makes it worse, not better.

 

[OzSpen]

A true Christian does not take sides with anything to do with this world or the flesh. We who walk with God and serve God are to remain non-partisan...neutral. We resist the baiting of the devil into a political camp. We love all people...not because of their race or skin colour. We love all men equally. So i can't take any side in this political demonstration of carnality. I must remain on the Lord's side. Carnal men want God for themselves. But He is the God of ALL flesh...yes, even the people you like to hate and blame. All men need to leave their sins behind and go over to the Lord's side. And this begins with they who say they follow Christ.,..but lie.

Does that mean you don't vote at any Canadian election?

You and I live in democracies where Christians have opportunities to be salt and light in political parties where this happens:

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor (Rom 13:1-7 NIV).​

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Politics is not of God...but of this world subject to the devil. Are you a cultural Christian? A sunday believer? Are you more worldly than spiritual? Do you even understand what I'm talking about?

Romans 13:1-7 disagrees with you.

 

[Timtofly]

Romans 13:1-7 disagrees with you.

None of that mentions politics?

"the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power."

Yes back then God did not let it get out of hand. Meaning, even wickedness would not prevent His Will. But Christians were never to aspire to, nor change any earthly government. Even God's chosen people could not even get having a kingdom right.

Now the NT does not have our type of Government mentioned any where. It would take over 1500 years for such an ideology to even start to form.

But the issue is that even the US government has reached, and past it's usefulness, and hardly exemplary. It would take a global revival for governments to be any where close to godly.

 

[Heart2Soul]

This is silly. Should a Christian not vote for people who will make abortion illegal and put abortion doctors in jail? Can a Christain not be a police officer and put criminals in jail? Are we just to stay home and never do anything to change our culture for the better?

You are not getting the message here......He means to say that we should always hate evil as God does...but we should never attack evil doers as if we are doing God a favor....no....look how Jesus approached Paul on the road to Damascus....always gentle and full of love and compassion.
Who is going to ever want what we have if we don't first demonstrate it as Jesus did?

 

[OzSpen]

None of that mentions politics?

"the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power."

Yes back then God did not let it get out of hand. Meaning, even wickedness would not prevent His Will. But Christians were never to aspire to, nor change any earthly government. Even God's chosen people could not even get having a kingdom right.

Now the NT does not have our type of Government mentioned any where. It would take over 1500 years for such an ideology to even start to form.

But the issue is that even the US government has reached, and past it's usefulness, and hardly exemplary. It would take a global revival for governments to be any where close to godly.

Tim,

Please convince me from the New Testament.

Politics is an area where we can be the salt of the earth and the light of the world (Matt 5:13-16 NIV).

In this area, we can 'speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute' (Prov 31:8) and it's a practical way to make a way for those who 'may have something to share with those in need
(Eph 4:28 NIV).

On average, Australians think we invest 16% of the Federal Budget on overseas aid, and believe that we should be spending something closer to 12%. In reality, Australia spends $4.044 billion dollars on overseas aid – that’s just 0.21% of our gross national income, or 21 cents in every $100.

In comparison, the United Kingdom has enshrined a commitment to spend 0.7% of GNI in aid every year into law. We are lagging behind other wealthy countries such as Sweden, who contribute 1.1 per cent of GNI, the Netherlands at 0.65 per cent, and Germany at 0.41 per cent (source).​

Peter wrote in the God-breathed Scripture:

Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor (1 Peter 2:13-17 NIV).​

In Rom 13:1-7 and 1 Pet 2:13-17 we see some of the functions of govt. Nowhere do I read that Christians should not be involved in politics or government. Our current Australian Prime Minister is a Pentecostal Christian. One of our Senators for my State of Queensland, Amanda Stoker, is an evangelical Christian.

Read one of our former deputy Prime Minister's, John Anderson's, tribute to Ravi Zacharias.

To keep John Anderson and Amanda Stoker out of public life would have been a travesty. They are a light in the darkness of politics.

Oz

 

[Enoch111]

A true Christian does not take sides with anything to do with this world or the flesh.

You are not advocating Bible Christianity but capitulation to the Devil.
Neither does a true Christian merely stand by while innocent people are attacked and destroyed by evildoers and cities are ravaged. The parable of the Good Samaritan is there to teach us that we must take positive action to assist those who have been devilishly attacked.

Christians must of necessity take a stand against everything devilish (Ephesians 6). Christians must speak out and be heard, and if possible enable those who would do right through the ballot box. And Christians must also be ready to defend their families and loved ones against evildoers.

If America was presently under the Law of Moses, every evildoer would be facing the death penalty. But even under the secular laws of America, the rioters should be facing fines and imprisonment. What we have at present in the USA is a conspiracy to overthrow the government, and pallet-loads of bricks are being placed strategically in all the cities (along with other weapons to be used against police and innocents). The assault on the White House (as well as other federal buildings) is proof.

18 U.S. Code § 2385.Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 2, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 87–486,June 19, 1962, 76 Stat. 103; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Jesus was not of this worl

I'm not satisfied with your answer. That makes it worse, not better.

It makes it worse that the momentum has shifted? I dont see it as worse, I see it as...the same. Racism is racism.

What I see is the media jerking people around and, currently, they want black people to think they are oppressed. I have a friend who has bought into that message. She says things all the time that I secretly set up little studies on. For instance, she said she holds doors open for white women and white women never hold doors open for her, because they feel privileged. So over the course of a few months, i paid attention everywhere I went. I found, at least in my town, that there were rude people of both races and polite people of both races. But that's kind of all beside the point to me because its curious to me that you would expect any woman to hold open a door for you, white OR black. People arent there to cater to you. They are there to purchase what they need and go home and their mind is on many things and you arent one of those things. But in her mind, if she isnt the center of their attention at the doorways to stores, it means white women feel they are priveleged and shouldn't hold doors for black women?? Who has time to even think long on such things? God gave you an arm, just open the door yourself. I dont get it. I really dont.

If I am approaching a door the same time as someone else and I get to it first, I always hold it open, whether it's a man or a woman or whether they are black, white or Hispanic. But do I expect anyone else should do it for me? No. I really dont.

 

[Renniks]

You are not getting the message here......He means to say that we should always hate evil as God does...but we should never attack evil doers as if we are doing God a favor....no....look how Jesus approached Paul on the road to Damascus....always gentle and full of love and compassion.
Who is going to ever want what we have if we don't first demonstrate it as Jesus did?

He said no such thing.

 

[theophilus]

Would you kill an abortion doctor? What will you do? Will you put people under the law while you claim to be under grace? Would you put people in jail who have abortions.

Instead stop thinking about attacking individual sins unless God puts you there. Instead take an axe to the whole tree.

If we live in a country where abortion is legal we have an obligation to try to change the law. That is not the final solution to the problem. We need to preach the gospel to change hearts but while we are doing this we should also try to save the lives of the unborn.

Politics is not of God...but of this world subject to the devil. Are you a cultural Christian? A sunday believer? Are you more worldly than spiritual? Do you even understand what I'm talking about?

Romans 13:1 says, "There is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." We are free to get involved in any institution that God has established.

A Christian can be a cop...but he will not be yoked with the police culture. He will have a very hard time because he will be honest. A soldier can be a Christian but the same thing there. And a soldier will not kill others...he will be a medic or a stretcher-bearer. He will seek to save lives not take them. That is...IF he is really a disciple of Christ. But then there are the cultural Christians. hey...the mafia are cultural Christians. And they kill without any remorse.

In the Old Testament God often commanded the Israelites to wage war against their enemies. Since our governments were established by God there can be nothing wrong with a Christian serving his country as a soldier or a law enforcement officer.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim,

Please convince me from the New Testament.

Politics is an area where we can be the salt of the earth and the light of the world (Matt 5:13-16 NIV).

In this area, we can 'speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute' (Prov 31:8) and it's a practical way to make a way for those who 'may have something to share with those in need
(Eph 4:28 NIV).

On average, Australians think we invest 16% of the Federal Budget on overseas aid, and believe that we should be spending something closer to 12%. In reality, Australia spends $4.044 billion dollars on overseas aid – that’s just 0.21% of our gross national income, or 21 cents in every $100.

In comparison, the United Kingdom has enshrined a commitment to spend 0.7% of GNI in aid every year into law. We are lagging behind other wealthy countries such as Sweden, who contribute 1.1 per cent of GNI, the Netherlands at 0.65 per cent, and Germany at 0.41 per cent (source).​

Peter wrote in the God-breathed Scripture:

Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor (1 Peter 2:13-17 NIV).​

In Rom 13:1-7 and 1 Pet 2:13-17 we see some of the functions of govt. Nowhere do I read that Christians should not be involved in politics or government. Our current Australian Prime Minister is a Pentecostal Christian. One of our Senators for my State of Queensland, Amanda Stoker, is an evangelical Christian.

Read one of our former deputy Prime Minister's, John Anderson's, tribute to Ravi Zacharias.

To keep John Anderson and Amanda Stoker out of public life would have been a travesty. They are a light in the darkness of politics.

Oz

Because the church age has less than a year, to win lost souls. Your choice, this world or change people's lives from death to life?

I cannot convince any one. Revelation 6 is happening now. Only the Holy Spirit can convince a person to do anything. Then that person has to convince themselves to obey God. If one has a false spirit telling them what to do, they have to repent first, or God will not be working at all in their lives.

 

[marks]

They are God’s servants,

This doesn't sound like something we should eschew.

 

[marks]

You are not getting the message here......He means to say that we should always hate evil as God does...but we should never attack evil doers as if we are doing God a favor....no....look how Jesus approached Paul on the road to Damascus....always gentle and full of love and compassion.
Who is going to ever want what we have if we don't first demonstrate it as Jesus did?

But isn't @Episkopos also saying we shouldn't have anything to do with politics?

I mean I know he was responding as if "taking a stand against abortion doctors" was the same as killing them. But we can be politically involved and actively against abortion, for instance, without, of course, killing abortion doctors!

I believe that we should be open to whatever role God may want us to play in the political world, whether it be voting, or a more direct participation.

What was that someone said . . . evil wins when good men do nothing?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Does that mean you don't vote at any Canadian election?

You and I live in democracies where Christians have opportunities to be salt and light in political parties where this happens:

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor (Rom 13:1-7 NIV).​

Oz

Is it respecting the authorities God has set in place to scream at them, throw water bottles and bricks at them and to shoot them? If God sets rulers in place and removes them from their place, why would a Christian be found doing Or condoning those things? Even IF they thought the leaders He had set in place were awful?

 

[marks]

It is time to repent, ask God to use you, then obey God.

It's always that time!

 

[marks]

Episkopos said: ↑

Politics is not of God...but of this world subject to the devil. Are you a cultural Christian? A sunday believer? Are you more worldly than spiritual? Do you even understand what I'm talking about?

Romans 13:1 says, "There is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." We are free to get involved in any institution that God has established.

The more I think about it . . . the more I realize this passage is telling us that government is from God, and "politics" just describes some of this motion of governance, so the above assertion that politics is not of God is false.

So it sounds to me this is yet another thread to take obedient and faithful Christians and make them look bad if they are politically involved in any way.

Calling them "sunday Christians" and stuff like that.

Not to take sides with anything in the culture or society? I don't think so.

Much love!

 

[APAK]

A true Christian does not take sides with anything to do with this world or the flesh. We who walk with God and serve God are to remain non-partisan...neutral. We resist the baiting of the devil into a political camp. We love all people...not because of their race or skin colour. We love all men equally. So i can't take any side in this political demonstration of carnality. I must remain on the Lord's side. Carnal men want God for themselves. But He is the God of ALL flesh...yes, even the people you like to hate and blame. All men need to leave their sins behind and go over to the Lord's side. And this begins with they who say they follow Christ.,..but lie.

Epi, it would have be very beneficial and less confusing, or even less misleading if you included in your OP that true believers definitely 'take a side' of/for the TRUTH. They, true believers, are NEVER really neutral whilst living in this world. It is IMPOSSIBLE. This is a critical point that I noticed you omitted.

Christ and his followers always pointed out and even acted on the TRUTH and injustices regardless of any prevalent world political or cultural persuasion. They were not members of any Galilean or Judean political party or movement; if they had such 'things' back then. They did however take a clear side with any political or cultural movement that spoke or adhered to the TRUTH, of the Father, whenever and wherever it occurred, as we should today. The Spirit does not change today. It never changes!

Many of the world people are calling today for world peace and security, and we are then to love everyone. This I believe is an evil trap for many believers to fall into. This is not what the Father and his Spirit says to his people. These words are of the world, of evil of spirits of this world. For a believer, we cannot compromise the gift of love to everyone when evil is present in some of them; this cannot be the TRUTH. We cannot compromise our love for God and other brethren over evil men and women that we discern to be, per the Spirit.

The truth spoken to me on this current 'rioting' event is that all life is precious, indeed. And for me to stay out of any riot, and to be vigilant and ready to to speak and spread the TRUTH and defend myself and family when/if the time comes. To be prepared and vigilant. This means to know the affairs of the world and which political and cultural camp houses the truth at times. And yes, you can be a member of a national political party whilst not being evil, hateful, or carnal as you seem to suggest or imply in your OP. We are to spread the TRUTH, and the one truth that is significant in these riots is to know who are behind this violence and what is their agendi. The Spirit speaks..

APAK

 

[FHII]

It makes it worse that the momentum has shifted? I dont see it as worse, I see it as...the same. Racism is racism.

What I see is the media jerking people around and, currently, they want black people to think they are oppressed. I have a friend who has bought into that message. She says things all the time that I secretly set up little studies on. For instance, she said she holds doors open for white women and white women never hold doors open for her, because they feel privileged. So over the course of a few months, i paid attention everywhere I went. I found, at least in my town, that there were rude people of both races and polite people of both races. But that's kind of all beside the point to me because its curious to me that you would expect any woman to hold open a door for you, white OR black. People arent there to cater to you. They are there to purchase what they need and go home and their mind is on many things and you arent one of those things. But in her mind, if she isnt the center of their attention at the doorways to stores, it means white women feel they are priveleged and shouldn't hold doors for black women?? Who has time to even think long on such things? God gave you an arm, just open the door yourself. I dont get it. I really dont.

If I am approaching a door the same time as someone else and I get to it first, I always hold it open, whether it's a man or a woman or whether they are black, white or Hispanic. But do I expect anyone else should do it for me? No. I really dont.

Great post, Stunned! I woke up at 5:30 and turned on the local news... Nothing but bad vibes. I decided it was enough! I am going to be a great human today! I am not going to let the climate dictate my behavior! And my wife heme to today is "kindness".