The Lord's Side (Remaining neutral and non partisan)

[farouk]

The OP suggests we are not to be political, not engage in the issues of this world, with this in mind, there are verses seemingly supporting this viewpoint, the first:
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

1 John 4:5, NIV: "They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them."

James 1:27 - religion our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: taking care of orphans and widows in distress to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

I don't really see where God has directed believers to jump into world politics and worldly issues and try to convince the entire world the errors of their ways (and yes, they are wrong! God's Truth is not in them), 1 John 4:5 again says, "They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them."
God will call, out of the world, those that are His.

As believers, God has given us direction - James 1:27 - taking care of widows and orphans, caring for the oppressed (those in jail), feeding the poor, He also said to do love, kindness, other attributes of the Fruit of the Spirit as there are no laws against these.

Idk, ramblings from a fellow journeyman.

@Agios Good post! you may still be in your teens, but you've by God's grace figured divine wisdom here that a lot of older Christians seem not to have. Keep looking above and up (Hebrews 12.2).

 

[Timtofly]

We may have been raised one way, but when God saves us, we are no longer "that way" we're a new creation.

Maybe, once upon a time in America, we did have a government that leaned more towards God's Ways, but not anymore. There is too much corruption in the world's governments.

Have you ever heard that the world's governments are the spirit of the anti-christ manifested? Satan is very orderly, organized and he is the prince of this world right now?

Jesus said this : John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me,

Ephesians 2:2 In which you once walked. You were following the ways of this world [influenced by this present age], in accordance with the prince of the power of the air (Satan), the spirit who is now at work in the disobedient [the unbelieving, who fight against the purposes of God].

1 John 4:3 and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

Yes, the short lived 300+ year story of the eagle is probably my favorite. Yes even saints here messed up a Lot. Compared to the Israelites coming out if Egypt, America still wins. They had Moses and God shown to them. We just had the faith of the Reformation Fathers, as messed up as they were.

Yes it is the end. It is now just repentance and the Gospel. Nothing else matters.

 

[marks]

I don't really see where God has directed believers to jump into world politics and worldly issues and try to convince the entire world the errors of their ways (and yes, they are wrong! God's Truth is not in them), 1 John 4:5 again says, "They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them."
God will call, out of the world, those that are His.

Agreed!

Trying to use political position as the a means for personal persuasion is disengenuous, in my opinion.

If you are getting into politics and governmental leadership, it should be, again, just my opinion, to provide diligent and godly leadership. And who better than the one filled with the Holy Spirit?

In the same way God's children can bring light and blessing into industry, and into scientific discovery, and into art, so we can also bring light and blessing into leadership.

As I think I mentioned before, the city I'm in has a Christian mayor, many of the police force are Christians, other council members, and the Christian influence shows. It makes a difference.

Much love!

 

[Agios]

Agreed!

Trying to use political position as the a means for personal persuasion is disengenuous, in my opinion.

If you are getting into politics and governmental leadership, it should be, again, just my opinion, to provide diligent and godly leadership. And who better than the one filled with the Holy Spirit?

In the same way God's children can bring light and blessing into industry, and into scientific discovery, and into art, so we can also bring light and blessing into leadership.

As I think I mentioned before, the city I'm in has a Christian mayor, many of the police force are Christians, other council members, and the Christian influence shows. It makes a difference.

Much love!

True. We're not able to put God in a box and say that every single believer has never, in the history of mankind, been called into a leadership position as a government agent, who are we to know where God has called another? He organizes situations and occurrences, and uses the willing to further His Kingdom, so many scenarios God could use to play it all out.

 

[Episkopos]

True. We're not able to put God in a box and say that every single believer has never, in the history of mankind, been called into a leadership position as a government agent, who are we to know where God has called another? He organizes situations and occurrences, and uses the willing to further His Kingdom, so many scenarios God could use to play it all out.

Agreed! We are to seek the Lord not worldly power. But every now and again God may choose to use of of His servants to bring balance and order to a society...in the way that the devil does...

 

[Agios]

Agreed! We are to seek the Lord not worldly power. But every now and again God may choose to use of of His servants to bring balance and order to a society...in the way that the devil does...

I don't know if it's every now and then or all the time, who knows but Him. Or the devil attempts to do what the Lord does.

This conversation reminds me of the vessels in 2 Timothy 2:20, some are made for special purposes, some for common use. Anyway, I think this might apply. Ha

 

[OzSpen]

Because the church age has less than a year, to win lost souls. Your choice, this world or change people's lives from death to life?

I cannot convince any one. Revelation 6 is happening now. Only the Holy Spirit can convince a person to do anything. Then that person has to convince themselves to obey God. If one has a false spirit telling them what to do, they have to repent first, or God will not be working at all in their lives.

On your calculations, is Jesus returning by 2021?

 

[OzSpen]

This doesn't sound like something we should eschew.

Agreed.

 

[marks]

...in the way that the devil does...

In that authority is established by God, I'd rather say that the devil is the imitator, not God. And that makes sense anyway I think.

 

[Timtofly]

On your calculations, is Jesus returning by 2021?

There is nothing to use to calculate. The last sign, the 4th seal says 25% of humanity is destroyed by war, by famine, by plagues and with the wild animals of the earth. How long that takes, who knows?

The Second Coming is scheduled for April of 2023. That is the end of the Trumpets and Thunderings. That is making the calculations based on the date in April of 30AD 2000 years maximum of this age. Subtract Daniel's 70th set of years, seven years. Then add what Satan may have 3.5 and that is 10.5 years. That 10 year period started in April. Matthew 24:22
"Indeed, if the length of this time had not been limited, no one would survive; but for the sake of those who have been chosen, its length will be limited."

The elect was the reason the last half of 3.5 years have been removed. Now there is a possibility that even the 3.5 years of Satan can be stolen from Satan, and removed as well. When those alive today get serious about God, humble themselves, pray, and seek God’s face. God claims He will hear, and will heal their land. That promise is for every nation and all humanity. There are those in Christ in every country of the world.

There are no longer any time periods, to be figured out. The time is now or never.

Satan may not be revealed, but all willing and seeking God will be healed and no longer bound by Satan's deception. It is not a false promise or experience. It is a humbling and a God presence promise. It is not earth shattering, it is earth healing.

 

[OzSpen]

There is nothing to use to calculate. The last sign, the 4th seal says 25% of humanity is destroyed by war, by famine, by plagues and with the wild animals of the earth. How long that takes, who knows?

The Second Coming is scheduled for April of 2023. That is the end of the Trumpets and Thunderings. That is making the calculations based on the date in April of 30AD 2000 years maximum of this age. Subtract Daniel's 70th set of years, seven years. Then add what Satan may have 3.5 and that is 10.5 years. That 10 year period started in April. Matthew 24:22
"Indeed, if the length of this time had not been limited, no one would survive; but for the sake of those who have been chosen, its length will be limited."

The elect was the reason the last half of 3.5 years have been removed. Now there is a possibility that even the 3.5 years of Satan can be stolen from Satan, and removed as well. When those alive today get serious about God, humble themselves, pray, and seek God’s face. God claims He will hear, and will heal their land. That promise is for every nation and all humanity. There are those in Christ in every country of the world.

There are no longer any time periods, to be figured out. The time is now or never.

Satan may not be revealed, but all willing and seeking God will be healed and no longer bound by Satan's deception. It is not a false promise or experience. It is a humbling and a God presence promise. It is not earth shattering, it is earth healing.

With your predictions, you have violated Matt 24:36-37 (ESV):

But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man​

 

[Stranger]

LOL Talk about deviant thinking. The world is not the kingdom of God and the kingdom is not the world. I'm not surprised that you can't see any difference between them. It follows your usual spiritual blindness.

No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 2 Tim.2

You're the one wanting to be 'neutral'. That involves the believer in the world. Are you saying God is deviant in His thinking?

Oh, you don't 'entangle' yourself with the affairs of this life. You don't pay taxes? You don't vote? You don't serve in the military? What are you doing on a forum?

Stranger

 

[Timtofly]

With your predictions, you have violated Matt 24:36-37 (ESV):

But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man​

It is not a prediction any more than landing on the moon is a prediction.

If it goes against a belief, that is inevitable. Some here do not even believe in a millennium. The point that is made in that verse is the rapture, which a lot do not believe either. That is why the Bible and Truth does not rely on private interpretation and about 99% of current belief systems.

No, it is not a private interpretation if one or more verses can be used. It is just awkward.

 

[Nancy]

We may have been raised one way, but when God saves us, we are no longer "that way" we're a new creation.

Maybe, once upon a time in America, we did have a government that leaned more towards God's Ways, but not anymore. There is too much corruption in the world's governments.

Have you ever heard that the world's governments are the spirit of the anti-christ manifested? Satan is very orderly, organized and he is the prince of this world right now?

Jesus said this : John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me,

Ephesians 2:2 In which you once walked. You were following the ways of this world [influenced by this present age], in accordance with the prince of the power of the air (Satan), the spirit who is now at work in the disobedient [the unbelieving, who fight against the purposes of God].

1 John 4:3 and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

Awesome scripture choices Agios. Governments are corrupt to the core now, and there is no looking back. Things are slowly seeping into a police state...we, here, have not been able to see one sunset on the lake since all of this happened. We will be arrested if we leave the house after 8PM.
I can understand it...to a point. We can not even sit on our porches during this time either. Things are moving fast and Christians (IMO) should be running away from the Government! We keep doing the same thing over and over again with the same results. Even when the Republicans back in Bush II Admin. had control over the house, senate, judicial and of course, the executive branch and what do we still have since the 1970's?? Yes, abortion practically on demand...and these will have to stand before God...it's a wedge issue to divide voters, and pretty much every Christian know votes for the one who says they will overturn Roe vs Wade...not going to happen because they will lose their pet issue for votes from Christians.
Good post.
(Sorry if off topic @Episkopos )

 

[OzSpen]

It is not a prediction any more than landing on the moon is a prediction.

If it goes against a belief, that is inevitable. Some here do not even believe in a millennium. The point that is made in that verse is the rapture, which a lot do not believe either. That is why the Bible and Truth does not rely on private interpretation and about 99% of current belief systems.

No, it is not a private interpretation if one or more verses can be used. It is just awkward.

Tim,

Instead of brushing aside those who 'do not even believe in a millennium' (your words) of the reign of Christ on the earth, why don't your start s new thread with a title something like: 'Who do some Christians support amillennialism?'

As for the rapture, here's your opportunity to start another thread: 'Do you believe in the rapture? If so, why?'

Oz

 

[John Caldwell]

This is one of the best videos I have seen addressing the topic. It is about 15 minutes.

 

[OzSpen]

There is nothing to use to calculate. The last sign, the 4th seal says 25% of humanity is destroyed by war, by famine, by plagues and with the wild animals of the earth. How long that takes, who knows?

The Second Coming is scheduled for April of 2023. That is the end of the Trumpets and Thunderings. That is making the calculations based on the date in April of 30AD 2000 years maximum of this age. Subtract Daniel's 70th set of years, seven years. Then add what Satan may have 3.5 and that is 10.5 years. That 10 year period started in April. Matthew 24:22

Do you know what the law of non-contradiction is? You have presented it here: 'There is nothing to use to calculate.... The Second Coming is scheduled for April of 2023'.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

@Agios Good post! you may still be in your teens, but you've by God's grace figured divine wisdom here that a lot of older Christians seem not to have. Keep looking above and up (Hebrews 12.2).

I didnt believe he could possibly be in his teens so I looked. He is 19...it doesnt seem possible after hearing his posts...!

 

[Episkopos]

You're the one wanting to be 'neutral'. That involves the believer in the world. Are you saying God is deviant in His thinking?

Oh, you don't 'entangle' yourself with the affairs of this life. You don't pay taxes? You don't vote? You don't serve in the military? What are you doing on a forum?

Stranger

To the carnal mind, spiritual things are foolishness. As in..to be born again do I have to enter back into my mother's womb? And for some good examples of this lack of understanding on your part...well anything you say, really.

Trying to answer your questions would be like explaining colours to a blind man who has never seen.

But for others...

Taxes? Give unto Caesar what is Caesars.
Voting? Kingdom only...no worldly division. No hatred.
Military? The army of God.
On the forum? Trying to find actual Christians.
Prejudices? Neutral. No prejudices or bents. Judge everything by the Spirit in the right time.

 

[Stranger]

To the carnal mind, spiritual things are foolishness. As in..to be born again do I have to enter back into my mother's womb? And for some good examples of this lack of understanding on your part...well anything you say, really.

Trying to answer your questions would be like explaining colours to a blind man who has never seen.

But for others...

Taxes? Give unto Caesar what is Caesars.
Voting? Kingdom only...no worldly division. No hatred.
Military? The army of God.
On the forum? Trying to find actual Christians.
Prejudices? Neutral. No prejudices or bents. Judge everything by the Spirit in the right time.

So, you do entangle yourself with the affairs of this life. You pay taxes. What a worldly thing to do. And how abut insurance? Savings account? Do you have any of that? I'm sure you don't as you are too spiritual to particiapate in such worldly affairs.

Voting? What is to vote on concerning the Kingdom? I asked do you vote in your city, state, and countries elections? Or are you one of those that just lets God decide?

So, you didn't or wouldn't serve in your countries military? I can believe that. Probably for the better.

Oh, I see. You are the one who decides who is Christian or not. Because, 'your on the Lord's side'. But then, you say you are neutral. Thus again, (Rev. 4:15-16).

Stranger