The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
999
795
113
60
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Mark 13 is simply Apostle Mark's version of Christ's Olivet discourse. It gives some specific info that Matthew 24 doesn't, but the majority of it is the SAME witness as Matthew 24. So your 'beef' is not justified.


The 'separation' of Christ's sheep from the goats at His coming happens on the 'day of His return', PRIOR to the "thousand years". It is NOT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT.

Just because that Matthew 25 separation of the sheep and goats does not specifically mention the "thousand years" of Rev.20 does not mean it is not there in Matthew 25! In that Matthew 25 Scripture, Lord Jesus simply did NOT give ALL THE DETAIL. It's as simple as that.

And BECAUSE... Jesus DID give more detail about that time in His Book of Revelation, in Revelation 20, that means what? It means that "thousand years" He revealed in Rev.20 MUST BE UNDERSTOOD WITH THAT MATTHEW 25 SCRIPTURE. Haven't you ever heard of an UPDATE? That is what Christ's Book of Revelation is, a REVEALING, which is what the title means.

Sorry I feel like I have to stress what I'm saying, simply because what you are proposing is such a whacked way to view God's Word.



Well, you have MISSED understanding what Lord Jesus said there in John 5 also. I have to assume your preacher you listen to is misleading you, or you are misleading yourself...

John 5:24-29
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


That above is about those who 'believe' on The Father and The Son Jesus Christ. Those who remain faithful in Christ Jesus will not be subject to condemnation. Simple.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Why did you MISS that "and now is" timing Jesus gave there? What's that about? Well, what happened when He gave up the ghost on His cross per Matthew 27:50-53? That is the time He was pointing to, NOT the future resurrection that will happen at His future return.

26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;
27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.


Below is pointing to a LATER TIMING...

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV


That above is where Jesus pointed to His future return on the "last day" of this world, when the future resurrection will happen. You do have a future resurrection event in your theology per God's Word, don't you?

At His future return, that is that hour that is coming when the dead are raised either to the "resurrection of life", or to the "resurrection of damnation". Those unto Life means those "asleep" saints Apostle Paul said Jesus will bring with Him when He returns, per 1 Thess.4. Surely you know about that.
I am not dealing with your misrepresentation and games anymore Davy.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,425
2,204
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1. Time no longer?

Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

The "time will stop existing" theory is based on misunderstanding some translations archaic wording. Here "time no longer" simply means there will no longer be a delay before certain events begin to occur not that time somehow actually stops.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Scripture never claims that time ends, in fact the eternity is never ending time with a new fruit on the tree of life every month (30 days of time).

The only way your argument survives is by avoiding the counter evidence that forbids your beliefs.

Revelation 10:5-7 says of the Second Advent and the concluding last trumpet, “And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

Whichever way you look at it, there is an unquestionable finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet. This corresponds with the conclusiveness associated with Second coming passages elsewhere in Scripture. Let us look at some of the all-consummating detail.

• “the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ.”
• “he shall reign for ever and ever” – not a thousand years or for a measurable time-span.
• The time of God’s “wrath is come.”
• We have a general judgment where Christ will “give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints” and judge the wicked at the same time. He will “destroy them which destroy the earth.”
• “the mystery of God” will be “finished.”
• “time” shall be “no longer.”

It is hard to see how the Holy Spirit could have made it more final. All the bases are covered. All the boxes are ticked. The finishing of “the mystery of God” at the “sound of the last trumpet (trumpet 7) ushers in the end of time (chronos) and the beginning of eternity.

Firstly, this is undoubtedly the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ – the end – it has absolutely nothing to do with delaying the days.

Secondly, the King James Version interprets the passage correctly and in context: chronos ouketi estai.

‘Time - no longer – there shall be’!!!

Thirdly, the above interpretation of the Greek in this passage is in perfect and harmonious agreement with their consistent usage everywhere else in Scripture. Those who interpret it otherwise probably do so in an attempt to justify the Pre-mil theory, and the myriads of goats that their paradigm produces during their millennium.

Also, the interpretation of these Greek words in this passage, in the AV, is in clear and absolute agreement with their consistent usage throughout the rest of Scripture. Those therefore who interpret it otherwise probably do so to explain away the undoubted finality of the second coming or to support the inconsistent Pre-mil theory. The word chronos in this reading, which is rendered “time” in the AV, carries the consistent meaning of “time” or “times” in Scripture. A thorough examination of the usage of the word finds that it is right here to interpret chronos as time. The King James Version translations are:

‘time/s’ 32 references,
‘season’ 4 references,
‘a while’ 4 references,
‘long as’ 4 references,
‘began’ 3 references,
‘space’ 2 references.
‘oftentimes’ 1 reference,
‘ago’ 1 reference,
‘old’ 1 reference,

Significantly, whichever one of these English words that one prefers, we assuredly know, it shall be “no more” at the one final future all-consummating Second Advent.

Chronos is found 52 times and never interpreted "delay." Some of the modernist translations have interpreted chronos as delay to support the error of Premillennialism. But the word does not have that connotation remotely. It is totally butchering the meaning of the Greek word.

‘delay’ 0 times.

The translating of chronos as ‘delay’ in this passage by some of the modern versions therefore is clearly unsustainable and is completely out of keeping with the context of the reading and the standard usage of the word in the rest of the New Testament. The King James Version interprets are therefore correct in interpreting the word as “time” in this reading.

Significantly, the remainder of the NASB translation of the passage (which interprets the word delay) also declares, “when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished.” Therefore, the whole import and wording of the remainder of the passage perfectly supports the King James Version rendering and confirms the all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, which says, “when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should beetelesthee (or) finished.” It should be noted that the word etelesthee is a very strong all-consummating word that is rightly translated “finished” in this reading and is consistently interpreted, and means, completed, concluded, expired and accomplished.

This is the time when “that which is in part shall be done away,” when “that which is perfect is [finally] come” the time when we shall “know even as also” we are “known” (1 Corinthians 13:9-12).

What is more, and notably, the NASB Translation interprets chronos as “time” 30 times, “times” 5 times, “long” 5 times, “long ages” 2 times, “exact time” 1 time, “while” 5 times “period” 2 times, “age”1 time, “all” 1 time, “long” 1 time, and “delay” only 1 time. This is a faulty interpretation designed by bias translators to justify the Premil doctrine.

Fourthly, the science or art of the accurate measurement of time is known as chronometry (or, less formally, timekeeping). This comes from the Greek word chronos.

Fifthly, the English word “chronology” is derived from the Latin word chronologia, which is taken from the ancient Greek word χρόνος, chrónos meaning “time.” This depicts the system of arranging events in their order of occurrence in time. They refer to a timeline or sequence of events.
 
Last edited:

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,425
2,204
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
4. The first resurrection? Christ's resurrection?

5. First resurrection, a resurrection without a death?

Some in Amillennialism alternatively claim those of the first resurrection never died in the first place despite it saying these were beheaded during the tribulation. Both claims regarding the first resurrection are false and each contradict the other.

The best way to shed light on any challenging or figurative passage is to bring other relevant passages unto the table and interpret Scripture with Scripture. This removes theological speculation and any need for private interpretation.

In understanding the much-debated and highly-symbolic Revelation 20, one should especially bring as much clear and related Scripture into one’s analyze. That is because there is such a stark divergence in how we should interpret the passage. It is so serious that Premils have felt the need to invent another age in-between this age and the age to come. So, we should bring all the evidence we can to help us dissect this obscure passage.

Please follow the color coding:

Revelation 1:5-6: “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”

Revelation 20:6 mirrors this. It describes the same first resurrection (that of Christ) and it shows the same result (God’s people ruling and reigning as priest kings in and through Christ).

Revelation 20:6: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Premillennialists may be confused by who or what the first resurrection was and is, but that was not the case with the first century Church. They knew without any doubt that the resurrection of Christ was the first in time, order and importance. It was the central victorious element of the Christian faith. Without it the cross would have meant nothing.

Our spiritual position “in Christ” since Calvary and since the resurrection qualifies the believer to partake in the fruit of His victory over every single enemy.

Acts 26:23 declares, Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles (ethnos)."

The first resurrection opened up the Gospel to the nations!

We should note in this passage, the enlightening of the Gentiles (or) ethnos is carefully connected to the first resurrection of Christ. It is only through this powerful event that the deception that smothered the Gentiles was lifted. Moreover, the binding of Satan is expressly connected to the enlightenment of the Gentiles (or) ethnos.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Scripture often makes broad general sweeping statements. When Scripture tells us that the Gentiles would no longer be deceived it does not mean every single one of them, or even most of them, would be saved, just that the ignorance would be finally lifted from the darkened Gentiles.

Just like blindness and darkness are attributed to the Gentiles (without qualification) prior to the cross, it didn’t mean that every single Gentile was blind and in darkness. Scripture often described the Gentiles as a collective whole. That did not mean the Gentiles were all the same. Scripture, like us, makes generalities. Prior to Christ’s earthly ministry the heathen nations were viewed as being in wholesale ignorant and therefore outside of God’s plan of salvation. Could I suggest this was simply a general observation about the overall condition of the Gentiles as a broad mass, not an attempt to represent every single Gentile?
 
Last edited:

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,425
2,204
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2. Apollyon is released out of the pit?

Some Amillennialist's claim that Apollyon, who is "the angel of the pit", was in the pit with the locusts and was also released with them though the scripture does not state this happened. It is assumed because Amillennialism believes this was the same event in Revelation 20 when satan is released from the pit though there are no similarities in the details or timeframes. In the 5th trump the beast and false prophet haven't even risen yet after Satan is released in Revelation 20 the beast and false prophet have already been defeated and cast into the lake of fire.

Again, when you refuse to address the rebuttals that forbid your theories it exposes the impotence of your argument.

Satan is described as “the prince (or ruler) of the devils” in Matthew 9:34, 12:24 and Mark 3:22. Matthew 9:34 extends the name to “Beelzebub the prince of the devils.” In Revelation 9:10-11 the scorpion-like demonic host (that is shown to be currently incarcerated within the abyss) are said to have “a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.” This can be no other that Satan. Strong's says: “Apolluon means a destroyer (i.e. Satan).” Before we go any further, it is worth noting, Jesus likened demons to scorpions in Luke 10:19.

Revelation 9:11 tells us that the imprisoned demons in the abyss: “had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit [Gr. abussos or abyss], whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

In piecing the apocalyptic jigsaw together, we find that this dark spiritual dungeon currently has a king over it. This gives us insight into the fact that the abyss must be speaking of a kingdom. Moreover, that kingdom is imprisoned in its own darkness. The fact that there is a king currently ruling tells us that the abyss must contain a kingdom. The word kingdom means 'king with a domain'. Its meaning includes the territory and the people over whom the King rules and exercises sovereign authority. The term also includes the legislation and laws that administrate that kingdom. The word employed in the New Testament for 'kingdom' is the Greek word basileia denoting 'sovereignty, royal power, kingship and dominion'. A kingdom must therefore have (1) a king - a head, (2) a domain to rule over - subjects and territory, (3) a structure of administration - ethics, rules and laws which govern it.

We all know, there are only two spiritual realms in conflict on this earth - the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. Whilst these two kingdoms manifest through physical individuals they are invisible empires. The kingdom being described which "the destroyer" rules over is assuredly not the kingdom of God. The elect angels are never located in the abyss but rather in heavenly splendor. Therefore, we must be speaking of the dark restrained invisible spiritual realm of the devil's kingdom.

Who is this king (or destroyer) that currently reigns over "the bottomless pit" or abyss? We know from the description given of this king that we are looking at an angel. In fact, the king is called: "the angel of the abyss." There is no doubt that Abaddon / Apollyon are referring to someone within the demonic realm. This begs an instant question, who is the king that rules over that dark realm?

Strong's Concordance gives us help, describing Apollyon (623) as "a destroyer (i.e. Satan)." Moreover, when we examine the root Greek word apollumi (Strong's 622) we find it means "to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively." The word is variously translated destroy, die, lose, mar, perish in the King James Version. There seems little doubt that Apollyon is referring to the devil. Time after time in Scripture we see Satan being described in such a destructive way. The name and characteristics of this being seem to identify him with that great enemy of the Church - the devil.

Revelation 9:1-3 shows the abyss occupied now by Satan's minions prior to the last trumpet. It also shows Satan (Abaddon/Apollyon) there as well. Remember Abaddon/Apollyon is a king. This king is obviously head over a kingdom (that is what king's rule over) so what kingdom or domain and subjects and territory does he rule over? This is no natural king but a spiritual king. If it is a spiritual king it must either be Christ or Satan - the only two rulers over the two conflicting spiritual kingdoms. We know that Christ is not on earth since His ascent and definitely not in the abyss. There can surely be no doubt that this is Satan.

The New Testament employs the Greek root word for Apollyon to describe the works of Satan the destroyer. 1Corinthians 10:9-10 says, “Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed (or apollumi) of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed (or apollumi) of the destroyer.”

The same word is also used in John 10:10, in the familiar passage where Christ exposes the nature and aims of devil, saying, “The thief (Satan) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy (or apollumi).” Anywhere we see Satan mentioned or find him described, his nature is always to destroy. That is why his name is the same in every language (Greek and Hebrew included).

1 Peter 5:8 says that he is “your adversary” and that he appears “as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” Jesus said in John 8:44 that “He was a murderer from the beginning.” Ezekiel 28:14-19 declares of him that merchandise has “filled the midst of thee with violence” and that he is “a terror” to all peoples.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,425
2,204
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
3. What does "loosed" mean?

Contradicting the above claim in number 2, some in Amillennialism believe there is no such "releasing" of satan from the pit because at times the Greek word translated as "loosed" can imply "destruction". Amillennialism then sometimes believes satan is not "released" but destroyed which contradicts the idea that satan is Apollyon and that he is literally "released" from imprisonment in Revelation 9.

Nonsense. Satan gets a little season to wreak havoc on the Church. When Satan is released for a little season then so is the beast, and Satan's minions. We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season.

The end of the millennium and Satan's "little season" corresponds with the end time persecution spoke elsewhere in Revelation and in other Scripture orchestrated by antichrist/the beast (described as lasting 3 1/2 years). The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.
 

No Pre-TB

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2022
868
350
63
48
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts 26:23 declares, Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles
What version is this from?
It’s not:
NIV, NLT, ESV, BSV, BLB, KJV, NKJV, NASB, NASB 1985…Plenty more. I don’t see that version listed anywhere. It’s possible I missed it, but I’m curious now.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,425
2,204
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What version is this from?
It’s not:
NIV, NLT, ESV, BSV, BLB, KJV, NKJV, NASB, NASB 1985…Plenty more. I don’t see that version listed anywhere. It’s possible I missed it, but I’m curious now.

I am taking it from the Greek: prōtos ek anastasis
 

No Pre-TB

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2022
868
350
63
48
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am taking it from the Greek: prōtos ek anastasis
Why not take it from the modern, classical or literal translations? Those translations, many which have stood the test of time, do not word it that way. It appears you specifically chose it as an attempt to validate your own claim. It is my opinion the context of said scripture is a gruesomely distorted construct how you present it. I realize you’ll oppose my opinion, as you must in order to proceed with your intent. Regardless, it had to be said.

The Greek doesn’t read,
Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead (As you put it)

It reads,
Christ as first, through resurrection, from the dead

Inserting “the first resurrection”, you mean to show a parallel to Rev 20, which parallel doesn’t exist and is a tactic to deceive. Christ was the first of those who died physically and received physical life from death. But he is not part of the first resurrection of dead saints. As the KJV states,

Those that did not worship the beast or it’s image “and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This isthe first resurrection.”

The martyrs live with Christ and they reign with Christ 1k years, This is the 1st resurrection. What martyrs have changed from life to physical death and back to physical life to receive celestial bodies that they may reign with Christ since he died on the cross? Don’t answer that, it’s rhetorical and I wouldn’t be satisfied with any response as it has never happened.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,425
2,204
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why not take it from the modern, classical or literal translations? Those translations, many which have stood the test of time, do not word it that way. It appears you specifically chose it as an attempt to validate your own claim. It is my opinion the context of said scripture is a gruesomely distorted construct how you present it. I realize you’ll oppose my opinion, as you must in order to proceed with your intent. Regardless, it had to be said.

The Greek doesn’t read,
Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead (As you put it)

It reads,
Christ as first, through resurrection, from the dead

Inserting “the first resurrection”, you mean to show a parallel to Rev 20, which parallel doesn’t exist and is a tactic to deceive. Christ was the first of those who died physically and received physical life from death. But he is not part of the first resurrection of dead saints. As the KJV states,

Those that did not worship the beast or it’s image “and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This isthe first resurrection.”

The martyrs live with Christ and they reign with Christ 1k years, This is the 1st resurrection. What martyrs have changed from life to physical death and back to physical life to receive celestial bodies that they may reign with Christ since he died on the cross? Don’t answer that, it’s rhetorical and I wouldn’t be satisfied with any response as it has never happened.

It is saying the same thing. Hello! Your position denies that Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.
 

No Pre-TB

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2022
868
350
63
48
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.
The 1st resurrection of Jesus? Will there be a 2nd of Jesus?

My position? You have no idea what it is. We haven’t spoken enough.

Scripture only validates Christ was the first of those that sleep. He is not the 1st resurrection itself, but he’s called the resurrection. Rev 20 specifies a resurrection that the 2nd death would not touch; the 1st resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,

Have you resurrected from death, that the 2nd death cannot harm you? Obviously not.

As scripture says, when the 1k years are expired..”This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Therefore, there is a separation of 1k years between those who the 2nd death cannot hurt and those it can destroy.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,425
2,204
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The 1st resurrection of Jesus? Will there be a 2nd of Jesus?

My position? You have no idea what it is. We haven’t spoken enough.

Scripture only validates Christ was the first of those that sleep. He is not the 1st resurrection itself, but he’s called the resurrection. Rev 20 specifies a resurrection that the 2nd death would not touch; the 1st resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,

Have you resurrected from death, that the 2nd death cannot harm you? Obviously not.

As scripture says, when the 1k years are expired..”This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Therefore, there is a separation of 1k years between those who the 2nd death cannot hurt and those it can destroy"

Jesus is indeed the "first resurrection." Hello! Why would there be a second resurrection of Jesus?
 
Last edited:

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
999
795
113
60
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Scripture only validates Christ was the first of those that sleep. He is not the 1st resurrection itself, but he’s called the resurrection. Rev 20 specifies a resurrection that the 2nd death would not touch; the 1st resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,

Have you resurrected from death, that the 2nd death cannot harm you? Obviously not.
You say He is the resurrection, but he is not the first. :rolleyes:

Sorry he has to be the first as he is the only one who can deal with the resurrection on our behalf.


Have you not read John 5

We have already (NOW IS) passed from death to life and will not be touch by the judgment. (Second death)

Jn 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life

25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.


John THE REVELATOR is just being consistent in Rev 20
 
  • Love
Reactions: WPM

No Pre-TB

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2022
868
350
63
48
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your fight is with the Scriptures I presented. You have no response to the inspired text apart from "I reject it."
You didn’t present anything useful to be swayed, learned from or even to cause my ears to tingle. I don’t reject you WPM, even if we see things differently. Certainly, I don’t reject God’s word. As much as you claim to study, Im sure you’re aware this subject has seen various viewpoints for centuries.
 

WPM

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2022
5,425
2,204
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You didn’t present anything useful to be swayed, learned from or even to cause my ears to tingle. I don’t reject you WPM, even if we see things differently. Certainly, I don’t reject God’s word. As much as you claim to study, Im sure you’re aware this subject has seen various viewpoints for centuries.

I agree. But you are rejecting a fundamental truth in Christendom: that Jesus is "the first resurrection," "the firstborn from the dead," "the firstfruits of them that slept" and "first begotten of the dead".
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
5,984
1,227
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We have already (NOW IS) passed from death to life and will not be touch by the judgment. (Second death)

Jn 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life

25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.


And an hour is coming as well. You are not in an immortal body, and have not taken part of the first resurrection of the dead in Christ yet. Amill always affirms how it does not understand Rev 20 correctly.
 

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
999
795
113
60
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
And an hour is coming as well. You are not in an immortal body, and have not taken part of the first resurrection of the dead in Christ yet. Amill always affirms how it does not understand Rev 20 correctly.
I am affirming Jn 5, and John's revelation of Rev 20 has to be consistent with it. If you do not you have Jesus teaching 2 different things.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
5,984
1,227
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am affirming Jn 5, and John's revelation of Rev 20 has to be consistent with it. If you do not you have Jesus teaching 2 different things.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ has not yet happened, is not happening and did not happen in the past. It is a future event at the second coming.

Teaching otherwise violates this scripture:

2Ti_2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.