The mark of the beast:

[bbyrd009]

when Elijah called fire down.

^

 

[bbyrd009]

I hear ya, but, to me, I take it as literal in those verses I quoted, not just a "state of being". If you're not looking at those verses literally, I can see your point.

So then the differentiation we have is, actually, are those verses literal.



lol, that's a larger argument right there, that we could go round and round on. I think there's even a hint of it in that "Calvanism" thread that's recent.

the ref to plucking out the right eye or cutting off the right hand are likely centered around the aspect of "right" fwiw, and if you read the Bible "literally" you are liable to start declaring yourself wise too, before you know it! I know we are indoctrinated to read that way, and also encouraged to declare ourselves wise basically at our ritual baptisms, right before the Luby's celebration and all, we all get a big ego-boost for having "made the right choice" yeh, but fwiw you had enough sense to not cut off your right hand, right? Let those on milk read literally imo

Geez, my "dad" only criticizes what I do, so every day...lol

that is too bad, mine did too, and it is a shame what...Roman, legalist, believer dads do to their sons--even remarked upon in Scripture btw, has to be bc they are under the law, see, declaring themselves "saved" and whatnot in direct defiance/ignorance of Scripture, etc--but anyway, that is a diff concept anyway, and hopefully you might overcome the tendency to criticize, and instead show by example. But its tough imo, lemme tell ya, even after you realize

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah, unfortunately lol...ugh, I gotta live like this for eternity - meaning my bad memories of things that happened to me in this life. lol, yeah, that's not a good thought I live with.

oh, if you have confessed those things, you should forget them. And if you have not confessed them to anyone, imo do so, even a stranger or a priest, who will understand, believe me. We all do stuff when we're young, and trust me, your past sins are not unique, ok. Also unfortunately carrying the guilt around is also not unique, and imo that is a bad idea. You are surely a much better person than i was at your age, i tell ya what. I could fry your brain with a couple confessions i bet lol, i was in bad shape. You are forgiven, ok. To carry guilt for past sins is detrimental to you. Your dad means well, i'm sure?

 

[4Jesus]

the ref to plucking out the right eye or cutting off the right hand are likely centered around the aspect of "right" fwiw, and if you read the Bible "literally" you are liable to start declaring yourself wise too, before you know it! I know we are indoctrinated to read that way, and also encouraged to declare ourselves wise basically at our ritual baptisms, right before the Luby's celebration and all, we all get a big ego-boost for having "made the right choice" yeh, but fwiw you had enough sense to not cut off your right hand, right? Let those on milk read literally imo

Or not enough sense to cut off the hand, lol

that is too bad, mine did too, and it is a shame what...Roman, legalist, believer dads do to their sons--even remarked upon in Scripture btw, has to be bc they are under the law, see, declaring themselves "saved" and whatnot in direct defiance/ignorance of Scripture, etc--but anyway, that is a diff concept anyway, and hopefully you might overcome the tendency to criticize, and instead show by example. But its tough imo, lemme tell ya, even after you realize

Sorry to hear that about you too.

hehe, yeah, I can't do anything right. I was even scolded for putting someone else's interests ahead of my own - not sure what to make of that still...I thought I was living as Jesus taught...

Oof, I don't want to show by example, that means I have too many people in my life lol. And I hate being the center of attention, on top of that - don't like the "birthday song" being sung to me by only a few people, let alone a big group of people. lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

From Heaven, lol

I pass on life, personally. But that conflicts with the "eternal life" message, so I just short-out and think "ah, nothing"...

Jonah is a good read for this i guess. It isnt something unique to you ok. the kingdom of heaven is within you, and eternities end, fwiw; don't be buying the Believer bs on "eternal" imo, eternal comes from aeon, "a space of time."

Or not enough sense to cut off the hand, lol

Jesus surely did not mean for anyone to be literally plucking out their eyes, nor cutting off their right hands, ok. These are spiritual concepts that one needs to accomplish imo. Ps, dont be trying to literally handle any poisonous snakes either right, many have died that way, thinking they were following Scripture. Leave that to the Enochs among us imo. When someone tells you that you should read the Bible literally, challenge them to a little trip to the reptile store lol. Believers are mostly full of crap, particularly literalists i think

 

[4Jesus]

oh, if you have confessed those things, you should forget them. And if you have not confessed them to anyone, imo do so, even a stranger or a priest, who will understand, believe me. We all do stuff when we're young, and trust me, your past sins are not unique, ok. Also unfortunately carrying the guilt around is also not unique, and imo that is a bad idea. You are surely a much better person than i was at your age, i tell ya what. I could fry your brain with a couple confessions i bet lol, i was in bad shape. You are forgiven, ok. To carry guilt for past sins is detrimental to you. Your dad means well, i'm sure?

It's not so much things I've done, moreso, things that were done to me which aren't comparable to what I've done (probably because I learned on what not to do, and how it feels when it's done to you). Bascially the multiple times in childhood where I was molested. Not just once or twice, or even within a few months, but separate times throughout childhood. Then raped as an adult. These are the memories that I can't live with, and don't want to live with, and the sheer thought of having to live eternally with them, that makes me shudder - I can't even live with them still, here and now, what am I gonna do for freaking eternity???

I don't know about my dad - crossed a few lines to me that were easy not to cross. Like scolding me for putting another's interests ahead of my own, then he goes to church on Sunday - like does that even conflict to him or does he just not know what's he doing? And if he doesn't know what he's doing, why should I listen to him, or anyone like that for that matter.

He tells me how to wear my hair, what clothes to wear - and I'm in my 40s. Talk about control freak...geez. Sometimes, I just want to respond with "just do it yourself and leave me out of it". lol

 

[bbyrd009]

It's not so much things I've done, moreso, things that were done to me which aren't comparable to what I've done (probably because I learned on what not to do, and how it feels when it's done to you). Bascially the multiple times in childhood where I was molested. Not just once or twice, or even within a few months, but separate times throughout childhood. Then raped as an adult. These are the memories that I can't live with, and don't want to live with, and the sheer thought of having to live eternally with them, that makes me shudder - I can't even live with them still, here and now, what am I gonna do for freaking eternity???

I don't know about my dad - crossed a few lines to me that were easy not to cross. Like scolding me for putting another's interests ahead of my own, then he goes to church on Sunday - like does that even conflict to him or does he just not know what's he doing? And if he doesn't know what he's doing, why should I listen to him, or anyone like that for that matter.

He tells me how to wear my hair, what clothes to wear - and I'm in my 40s. Talk about control freak...geez. Sometimes, I just want to respond with "just do it yourself and leave me out of it".

exactly

as for the sexual abuse, that is beyond my experience, but as hard as this sounds to accomplish i would def be getting around the abusers support group--fam, friends, etc, on FB maybe even--and declaring the truth loud and clear, and repeatedly! Really i would just forgive them if you can, but in any case i would not try to live with the unresolved angst, for sure. But you might also consider those that they will undoubtedly rape tomorrow, imo

 

[4Jesus]

Jonah is a good read for this i guess. It isnt something unique to you ok. the kingdom of heaven is within you, and eternities end, fwiw; don't be buying the Believer bs on "eternal" imo, eternal comes from aeon, "a space of time."

Jesus did not mean for anyone to be literally plucking out their eyes, nor cutting off their right hands, ok. These ate spiritual concepts that one needs to accomplish. Ps, dont be trying to literally handle any poisonous snakes either ok, many have died that way, thinking they were following Scripture. Leave that to the Enochs among you imo. When someone twlls you that you should read the Bible literally, challenge them to a little trip to the reptile store ok. Believers are mostly full of crap, particularly literalists

lol, I already did with the poisonous stuff though. Not snakes, but bleach. Drank that like it was water. Like I said, darned angel of Death was lazy that day, or off drinking somewhere so can't blame him if that was the case lol

I like the crazier side sometimes, could be fun. Shark cage diving was fun, albeit too safe - felt fun to be prey even while protected lol. Got into a cage with a tiger in Aruba, but it was sedated - started growling though, nice deep rumble in the chest on that one lol.

 

[4Jesus]

exactly

as for the sexual abuse, that is beyond my experience, but as hard as this sounds to accomplish i would def be getting around the abusers support group--fam, friends, etc, on FB maybe even--and declaring the truth loud and clear, and repeatedly! Really i would just forgive them if you can, but in any case i would not try to live with the unresolved angst, for sure. But you might also consider those that they will undoubtedly rape tomorrow, imo

Thanks, I appreciate the words and thoughts. I do forgive them, but it doesn't take away the memories, the feelings. Probably never will. Wish I could forget/block them, but ironically, it made me remember those memories better I think. I tried numbing it with drugs and alcohol, and it does numb it up good, but temporarily, but I need a long term solution to numb it - that's why I can't really say I want to live for eternity - I'm stuck like this, for good. And apparently people are conscious in Hell, so that's no solution either; like I said, "nothing" sounds just right, for me.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is a literal mark or identification of people who have submitted to his rule,

Romans 16:17-20 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. [18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. [19] For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. [20] And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not snakes, but bleach. Drank that like it was water.

ha well i shot some up, myself!

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks, I appreciate the words and thoughts. I do forgive them, but it doesn't take away the memories, the feelings. Probably never will. Wish I could forget/block them, but ironically, it made me remember those memories better I think. I tried numbing it with drugs and alcohol, and it does numb it up good, but temporarily, but I need a long term solution to numb it - that's why I can't really say I want to live for eternity - I'm stuck like this, for good. And apparently people are conscious in Hell, so that's no solution either; like I said, "nothing" sounds just right, for me.

hell is the invention of angle/norse scribes, who had no better analogy, as you will find when you ask google that. Gehenna is on earth, and tartarus is a spiritual place anyway. We are all taught Christiamity, Incorporated by Paul's wolves, well-meaning ppl who have signed Contracts for Jesus and have financial areangements with the government, yeh?

And when you read the Bible for yourself, this all becomes clear imo. As Samuel Clemens said "the best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible." Virtually every single thing taught us by a pastor is dead wrong, ok.

you might find where Samuel is brought up by the Witch of Endor for Saul, and says to Saul "you and your sons will be here with me." But this is verified many other places, Isaiah, Job, NT "no one has ever gone up to heaven, but he who came down from it; the son of man," etc. "There is only One Immortal." on and on.

"he who seeks to save his life will lose it"
"your bargain with the grave will not stand"

 

[bbyrd009]

That could be one of two to four meanings. I've read it could mean:
-denier of Christ
-opposer of Christ
-like a Christ
-in place of Christ

1 Johm 4:3 "3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"

1 John 2:18 "18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

None of those uses are capitalized "Antichrist". Also, 1 John 2:18 shows that there are many antichrists, but there is also a singular form of antichrist. Both of these could be the "denier of Christ" at least. It could also mean "opposer of Christ", "like a Christ", or "in place of Christ", but we don't really know which of the these three also apply definitively.

To me, all religions (and the followers of) not OT Judaism and Christianity are antichrist. Any institution that results from satan's kingdom (such as governments and businesses) are antichrist.

imo dont set that last bit in stone just yet, ok; our pastors sign 501 (6) c3 (6) s with the government, and claim the benefits via a form 1023 (6) they are a business, in league with the government, only we are raised with it from birth so it seems normal to us.

and the Qur'an states, many times, that one must follow Christ or be doomed.

 

[Enoch111]

Romans 16:17-20 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

You have a habit of taking Scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT, so kindly learn what it means to keep things in context.

You started a thread on the Mark of Beast, and now you are quoting instructions to Christians who have nothing to do with that future mark.

Do you have any idea about the reign of the Antichrist and how God will give him 42 months (3 1/2 years) to control the unbelieving and ungodly on earth? Do you know anything about the Abomination of Desolation and how it will be related to this Mark of the Beast?

 

[Enoch111]

I can go with the "identification of people who have submitted to his rule", but what is the "literal mark?".

If we accept the fact that in the future the technology which exists today will be manipulated by the Antichrist for his own nefarious purposes, it should be clear that the Mark of the Beast will probably be an electronic implant on the right hand or the forehead of every person on earth. Undoubtedly 666 will be a part of the unique ID code for every person. So it may appear as 470235891-666 within the chip.

This kind of identification is already in use. But then any kind of financial transaction will require an individual to identify himself/herself first. Today debit cards are commonplace instead of cash. At a future date every person will be *scanned* when he/she goes to buy or sell something. But now we have some trying to spiritualize this away rather than accept it for what it says.

 

[Enoch111]

Everything is clear to you, isn't it?

It should be clear to you and everyone else also. The Bible has been given to us so that we may know and understand what is coming in the future.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You have a habit of taking Scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT, so kindly learn what it means to keep things in context.

You started a thread on the Mark of Beast, and now you are quoting instructions to Christians who have nothing to do with that future mark.

Do you have any idea about the reign of the Antichrist and how God will give him 42 months (3 1/2 years) to control the unbelieving and ungodly on earth? Do you know anything about the Abomination of Desolation and how it will be related to this Mark of the Beast?

It has to be a literal mark for you to fit it in with a literal end and an heaven made up of literal gold and all manner of precious (literal)stones.

 

[Enoch111]

It has to be a literal mark for you to fit it in with a literal end and an heaven made up of literal gold and all manner of precious stones.

If none of this is literal, then we all might as well believe that Alice in Wonderland is real. Or the Adventures of Peter Pan.

 

[101G]

If we accept the fact that in the future the technology which exists today will be manipulated by the Antichrist for his own nefarious purposes, it should be clear that the Mark of the Beast will probably be an electronic implant on the right hand or the forehead of every person on earth. Undoubtedly 666 will be a part of the unique ID code for every person. So it may appear as 470235891-666 within the chip.

This kind of identification is already in use. But then any kind of financial transaction will require an individual to identify himself/herself first. Today debit cards are commonplace instead of cash. At a future date every person will be *scanned* when he/she goes to buy or sell something. But now we have some trying to spiritualize this away rather than accept it for what it says.

I can't buy the chip thing, but computers do control most of our lives, that I can go with. but an actual literal mark? don't know, so I cannot say you're wrong either. even right now as we speak, many transaction is done now by "Fingerprint" or Biometric authentication. there is a company right now advertising this such thing in what we do in our daily lives. I have a windows tablet that can be acess by "Fingerprint" or Biometric authentication. and we been chiping animals since the 60's and the 70's. also Facial and Iris Recognition have been around for a while also. and today, just about every transation is made by Computers. I can remember when computer first gain entry in the front line of the public, I was a a grocery store, and the clerk said bare with them for a minuite because the computers was down. hence we could neither buy or sell witout the computer. so I'll stick with for now the letter of C O M P U T E R which add up to 666. but as said, not saying that you're wrong, but who knows what the future holds, but God. so lets watch together and see God work, for what God has ordain, it will come pass.
PICJAG.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If none of this is literal, then we all might as well believe that Alice in Wonderland is real. Or the Adventures of Peter Pan.

“you must eat My flesh and drink My blood” is that foolish to you? John 6:51-56 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. [52] The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

Is it Spiritual or literal ...debates going on right now over which it is. What say you?