The mark of the beast:

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amadeus

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My take on the first beast being wounded, fatally, is to provide a proof that this beast is supernatural, and not just a human, who is to be followed, and furthermore, directed worship to. He's the coming "son" of satan, who they worship and follow.
Or... the beast is human... able like no other creature to maliciously disobey God. God is merciful and forgiving, but there is an unforgivable sin to deal justly with the worst of reprobate men. We can lay it on devils or evil angels, but if those are not men, they are certainly no worse than the men who would choose to follow them.

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18
 

amadeus

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Capital letters pose a problem for translators since the original Greek didn't have them.
Yet in Luther's Bible translation antichrist is always capitalized simply because it a noun. All nouns are capitalized in German without regard to them being Proper nouns or not, without regard to them being the first word in a sentence or not. We always need to be led by God to come to His conclusion in a matter. There are many stumbling blocks in written scripture and the usage or the lack thereof capital letters is just one of them. The Holy Spirit or the Spirit of Truth is what is needed... if anything.
 

amadeus

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ah well, Brittanica sayslots were "used for divination" but that is not correct imo, although that doesnt mean that priests didnt do that, either. Lots had a correct use, amd an incorrect one i guess. Anyway, i dont know either, so i would just goto Lex and start digging...
Exodus 28:6 Lexicon: "They shall also make the ephod of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen, the work of the skillful workman.
Strong's Hebrew: 646. אֵפוֹד (ephod) -- an ephod
"robe of approach to God," but i'm noting how Samuel's was "white stuff" and ephods got really showy after that?
זחח | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (Old Testament Hebrew)
"blue" (of course) cord
ספף | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (Old Testament Hebrew)
which is substantiating another ref on ephod i just read vis "beth," weird, anyway
from a quick scan "ephod" seems to be a divider of a sort--maybe between the holy amd the mundane--a house (beth) of a sort, along with the more literal understanding we have? I could dig deeper but i'm on a train, real slow internet

now, sell your robe comes to mind for some reason
Look at I Sam 23:9ff
 
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bbyrd009

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If none of this is literal, then we all might as well believe that Alice in Wonderland is real. Or the Adventures of Peter Pan.
fwiw those are both excellent contemporary mythologies that speak volumes of truth to those who can hear them. Unfortunately i am not one of them, and need an interpreter for those, but nonetheless. Google can interpret i guess.

Imo you should be made to handle a poisonous snake before you could post anymore :D
 
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aspen

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Roman slaves were branded in this manner. This is the only meaning necessary to understand the Mark. We spend so much time on this topic

The mark of man - 666; tattooed on the head and right hand = slavery and allegiance to Man
 
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amadeus

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ya,

almost posted that one too, but the ref required more digging. Struck me as a "casting lots" scenario?
ff?
If we can see it, it is not a thing of chance, simply a matter of luck, but rather when God is in it and we are paying attention He has exactly [not sometimes and not nearly and approximately] the answer that we need. One that used to bother me was the test used for the wife when it was her husband that was jealous without any real evidence. Would she live if she were innocent and died if she were guilty of adultery? If God is in it, the result will be according to His Truth. Everyone's heart is being checked.
 

4Jesus

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Or... the beast is human... able like no other creature to maliciously disobey God. God is merciful and forgiving, but there is an unforgivable sin to deal justly with the worst of reprobate men. We can lay it on devils or evil angels, but if those are not men, they are certainly no worse than the men who would choose to follow them.

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18

I think the beast could be a human. I stated it in post #4 "That's a good point. The issue I have in understanding this aspect of Revelation, is the beast a human, and will be indwelt by satan, or just a demon in human form with satan directing him."

The reason I think he not just an ordinary human, is Revelation 13:13 "13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,"

This, in at least one interpretation, means he has supernatural powers. I guess like the believers of Jesus, that could drive demons out of people?

The reason I think satan will indwell a human, for this grand finale, is worship. It's satan's last chance to receive worship, now out in the open and united, before going into the abyss for 1000 years. Why would he want to miss his last chance to receive worship by all of the earth dwellers, and let someone else receive that worship, when it's been satan's work this whole time that gets them there?
 

4Jesus

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hell is the invention of angle/norse scribes, who had no better analogy, as you will find when you ask google that. Gehenna is on earth, and tartarus is a spiritual place anyway. We are all taught Christiamity, Incorporated by Paul's wolves, well-meaning ppl who have signed Contracts for Jesus and have financial areangements with the government, yeh?

And when you read the Bible for yourself, this all becomes clear imo. As Samuel Clemens said "the best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible." Virtually every single thing taught us by a pastor is dead wrong, ok.

you might find where Samuel is brought up by the Witch of Endor for Saul, and says to Saul "you and your sons will be here with me." But this is verified many other places, Isaiah, Job, NT "no one has ever gone up to heaven, but he who came down from it; the son of man," etc. "There is only One Immortal." on and on.

"he who seeks to save his life will lose it"
"your bargain with the grave will not stand"

We also have "Abraham's bosom" though, and that being divided - one of torment, the other in peace.

And the lake of fire, where beings are tormented, in Revelation.

When I write "hell", I usually mean these two things, plus Gehanna, but that could be "Abraham's bosom" on the torment side.

As for the "he who seeks to save his life will lose it", heh, I'm the other way around, apparently: "he who seeks to lose his life will save it" hahaha
 
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4Jesus

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imo dont set that last bit in stone just yet, ok; our pastors sign 501 (6) c3 (6) s with the government, and claim the benefits via a form 1023 (6) they are a business, in league with the government, only we are raised with it from birth so it seems normal to us.

and the Qur'an states, many times, that one must follow Christ or be doomed.

But they don't result from satan's kingdom, even if they're tax-free government orgs. I pay taxes too, and don't consider myself apart of satan's kingdom, even though I'm living and working in it.
 
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amadeus

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I think the beast could be a human. I stated it in post #4 "That's a good point. The issue I have in understanding this aspect of Revelation, is the beast a human, and will be indwelt by satan, or just a demon in human form with satan directing him."

The reason I think he not just an ordinary human, is Revelation 13:13 "13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,"

This, in at least one interpretation, means he has supernatural powers. I guess like the believers of Jesus, that could drive demons out of people?

The reason I think satan will indwell a human, for this grand finale, is worship. It's satan's last chance to receive worship, now out in the open and united, before going into the abyss for 1000 years. Why would he want to miss his last chance to receive worship by all of the earth dwellers, and let someone else receive that worship, when it's been satan's work this whole time that gets them there?
I really don't think too much about all of the conclusions or lack thereof involved unless God gets on my case. [He has done that more than a time or two]. When I don't have a precise answer on this or on anything in the scriptures I go back to this one:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Keep our priorities always straight. Searching the scriptures is a good thing to do, but if the focus of our search interferes with the leading of the Holy Spirit in us, we should along with the prophet ... consider our ways.

"Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways." Haggai 1:15
 
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4Jesus

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I really don't think too much about all of the conclusions or lack thereof involved unless God gets on my case. [He has done that more than a time or two]. When I don't have a precise answer on this or on anything in the scriptures I go back to this one:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Keep our priorities always straight. Searching the scriptures is a good thing to do, but if the focus of our search interferes with the leading of the Holy Spirit in us, we should along with the prophet ... consider our ways.

"Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways." Haggai 1:15

hehe, He might be on mine as we speak :D

Thanks for the scripture references; good thoughts all around.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Roman slaves were branded in this manner. This is the only meaning necessary to understand the Mark. We spend so much time on this topic

The mark of man - 666; tattooed on the head and right hand = slavery and allegiance to Man

Understand it is a tiresome topic. Plenty of speculation given for what a literal mark could be. But it is not as often discussed what Spiritually it could mean...that kind of gets overshadowed. Does a “mark” have to be a literal mark to be visible? (imo) no...but could be just as visible in John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Not sure a computer chip or all the rest warrants Revelation 16:1-2
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. [2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Pretty significant mark of this anti (pseudo)christ. Maybe you are right “slavery” in whom does one serve.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Imo you should be made to handle a poisonous snake before you could post anymore :D

Deuteronomy 32:33-35 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. [34] Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures? [35] To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Peculiar. “laid up in store ...Sealed up among my treasures”


handling literal snakes is craziness.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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One that used to bother me was the test used for the wife when it was her husband that was jealous without any real evidence. Would she live if she were innocent and died if she were guilty of adultery?

If the woman is...Ephesians 5:28-30
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. [29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

...there is no chance to it Numbers 5:28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

Exodus 15:23-25 And when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they were bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah. [24] And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink? [25] And he cried unto the Lord ; and the Lord shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,
 
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