The media is lying to you RE the candidates

[forrestcupp]

I just think it's ridiculous to claim that anyone not voting for Cruz isn't a real Christian. Of course I hate abortion in any form. But you're not always going to get a candidate that meets all of your requirements. And if you look at it realistically, Cruz isn't going to take over the White House and change all the laws. We have a 3 branch government.

 

[ScaliaFan]

I just think it's ridiculous to claim that anyone not voting for Cruz isn't a real Christian. Of course I hate abortion in any form. But you're not always going to get a candidate that meets all of your requirements.

What??

we have gotten everything we could want in Cruz

he is the only true conservative running.

I "judge" people by how they treat Cruz. If they reject him, vilify him, etc.. I know something aboiut that person, namely that person is dishonest. Sorry if that sounds judgmental, but that is the way I think and I feel that since I love Jesus and adhere to His laws, my judgments are.. well, fill in the blanks

no one running is more Christian than Ted Cruz. He is the ONLY one who is pro life

 

[ScaliaFan]

I guess we can all tell who you're voting for. You know the old saying about how you can fool some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time. I'm pretty sure not one of the candidates that's running for president is a Christian. Jmo

yeh, actually I think there is only one Christian left in the world

I am sure you would agree that that person is you

(can you say Sarcasm?)

 

[forrestcupp]

What??

we have gotten everything we could want in Cruz

he is the only true conservative running.

I "judge" people by how they treat Cruz. If they reject him, vilify him, etc.. I know something aboiut that person, namely that person is dishonest. Sorry if that sounds judgmental, but that is the way I think and I feel that since I love Jesus and adhere to His laws, my judgments are.. well, fill in the blanks

no one running is more Christian than Ted Cruz. He is the ONLY one who is pro life

Of course Pro Life is very important. But my point is that whoever becomes president isn't going to have the power to magically make our country pro life, and there are a lot of people who are personally facing other issues in their lives, too. If pro life were the only issue that mattered to any of us, then our choices would be very simple. But what about a friend of mine who loves Jesus with his whole heart, he goes to church every week, and does all he can to provide for his family and raise them to know the Lord, but he also happens to be a Mexican who is working his backside off to try to gain his legal status, but the hurdles are just too high? Can you see my point? While pro choice is a very important issue, some people have other very important issues that are more in their face, and more immediate needs to them. With all of the issues to deal with in our lives, it's not just a simple cut and dry "we're all together and perfectly unified" thing.

 

[StanJ]

yeh, actually I think there is only one Christian left in the world
I am sure you would agree that that person is you
(can you say Sarcasm?)

You've already demonstrated that your thought processes are pretty singularly focused. The problem is they aren't actually accompanied by any rationale.

 

[ScaliaFan]

I look at Trump and I see an adulterer, fornicator, and a person who is probably the US's most-known lover of money. Then I wonder how in the world Christians can support and vote for such a person.

answer: they can't.

they are not Christians. Unfortunately, i have learned that too many, maybe even MOST who call themselves by that name are far from it

You will know them by their fruits

I smell some ROTTEN fruit... arg

 

[ScaliaFan]

I just think it's ridiculous to claim that anyone not voting for Cruz isn't a real Christian. Of course I hate abortion in any form. But you're not always going to get a candidate that meets all of your requirements. And if you look at it realistically, Cruz isn't going to take over the White House and change all the laws. We have a 3 branch government.

how UTTERLY ironic! IT is Cruz and Cruz alone among the candidates who RESPECTS our laws. And he respects the laws of God as well... does not put the laws of MAN (Roe v Wade) over the laws of GOD ("Thou shalt not kill")

none of the other candidates can say that. None of the others, not Kasich or anyone else is a TRUE Christian. True Christian can be defined as putting Jesus first, even when it is not politically expedient to do so... Cruz knows there are plenty of pro-death people out there but he does not change his principles to please them/appease them...

Again, if someone doesn't vote for him, they are NOT a true Christian, they have disobeyed Christ.. crucified Him all over again.. and those words are NOT at all an exaggeration...

 

[ScaliaFan]

Of course Pro Life is very important. But my point is that whoever becomes president isn't going to have the power to magically make our country pro life, and there are a lot of people who are personally facing other issues in their lives, too. If pro life were the only issue that mattered to any of us, then our choices would be very simple. But what about a friend of mine who loves Jesus with his whole heart, he goes to church every week, and does all he can to provide for his family and raise them to know the Lord, but he also happens to be a Mexican who is working his backside off to try to gain his legal status, but the hurdles are just too high? Can you see my point? While pro choice is a very important issue, some people have other very important issues that are more in their face, and more immediate needs to them. With all of the issues to deal with in our lives, it's not just a simple cut and dry "we're all together and perfectly unified" thing.

I never said that is the only issue. And if that person, Mexican, is illegal, he has NO right whatsoever to be here. He has broken the law and therefore, i have NO sympathy for him at all, save that i would not mistreat me in order to deport him, as the law requires. If you don't like the deportation laws, then work to change them. But until that happens, laws need 2b obeyed.. they are worthless if they are not enforced. There is no need for written down laws at all if no one is made to obey them. That is called anarchy.

That is called chaos. It is (understatement) NOT a hallmark of a civilized society.

I'm sure you would prefer that your neighbor adhere to the laws rather than not, eh? You don't want him dumping garbage on your lawn b/c he has no respect for the law. Would you, after seeing him do that, have "pity" on him b/c the poor thing needed a place to dump garbage and chose your yard for whatever reason?

 

[forrestcupp]

I never said that is the only issue. And if that person, Mexican, is illegal, he has NO right whatsoever to be here. He has broken the law and therefore, i have NO sympathy for him at all, save that i would not mistreat me in order to deport him, as the law requires. If you don't like the deportation laws, then work to change them. But until that happens, laws need 2b obeyed.. they are worthless if they are not enforced. There is no need for written down laws at all if no one is made to obey them. That is called anarchy.

That is called chaos. It is (understatement) NOT a hallmark of a civilized society.

I'm sure you would prefer that your neighbor adhere to the laws rather than not, eh? You don't want him dumping garbage on your lawn b/c he has no respect for the law. Would you, after seeing him do that, have "pity" on him b/c the poor thing needed a place to dump garbage and chose your yard for whatever reason?

My intent isn't to debate immigration laws, but just to point out that there are a lot of issues that mean a lot to different people, other than just the abortion issue. What if Cruz doesn't give a rip about the issue that is really affecting my life, but one of the other candidates does care? My whole point is that it's not as simple as "Ted Cruz is against abortion, so he's the only choice." I hate to break it to you, but Ted Cruz has been involved in some dishonest things to make people look bad to promote himself. None of these candidates are perfect.

I'll be honest with you, I don't have anything against Ted Cruz, and I would be happy if he somehow ended up being the next president. But it really ticks me off big time when someone tells me I have to vote for a certain candidate, or I'm not a Christian. You have no idea what is going on in my life, and you have no idea which candidate cares the most about what my personal needs are.

Speaking of immigration, I used to be pretty stubborn and heartless about it, like you, until I became friends with someone in that position who really loves Jesus. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get your green card to gain legal status? He has already hired a lawyer and paid thousands of dollars in fees to get it done, but there is still no hope in sight because of almost impossible hoops that need jumped through to get there. He has a loving American wife, one son, and another one on the way, and he's trying his hardest to do the right thing, but he can't catch a break. It's just too tough for people like him who want to do the right thing to gain legal status. It's a lot more complicated of an issue than "just deport them all and get rid of the vermin." Most issues are a lot more complicated than what they seem on the surface.

 

[ScaliaFan]

My intent isn't to debate immigration laws, but just to point out that there are a lot of issues that mean a lot to different people, other than just the abortion issue. What if Cruz doesn't give a rip about the issue that is really affecting my life, but one of the other candidates does care? My whole point is that it's not as simple as "Ted Cruz is against abortion, so he's the only choice." I hate to break it to you, but Ted Cruz has been involved in some dishonest things to make people look bad to promote himself. None of these candidates are perfect.

I'll be honest with you, I don't have anything against Ted Cruz, and I would be happy if he somehow ended up being the next president. But it really ticks me off big time when someone tells me I have to vote for a certain candidate, or I'm not a Christian. You have no idea what is going on in my life, and you have no idea which candidate cares the most about what my personal needs are.

Speaking of immigration, I used to be pretty stubborn and heartless about it, like you, until I became friends with someone in that position who really loves Jesus. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get your green card to gain legal status? He has already hired a lawyer and paid thousands of dollars in fees to get it done, but there is still no hope in sight because of almost impossible hoops that need jumped through to get there. He has a loving American wife, one son, and another one on the way, and he's trying his hardest to do the right thing, but he can't catch a break. It's just too tough for people like him who want to do the right thing to gain legal status. It's a lot more complicated of an issue than "just deport them all and get rid of the vermin." Most issues are a lot more complicated than what they seem on the surface.

I appreciate your apparent candor here.. better than some posters who just ramble on and barely say anything

in any case, i stand by what i said and stand by my stand on illegals. Why? Because i am a law and order person.. wasn't always, but once i studied Christian truth... began following Jesus... well... long s tory.. but in any case, the law is the law. Again, if someone doesn't like the law on illegals or anything else, work to change the laws... don't tell others to just violate the law. if these illegals were on the up and up, why don't they, once they crash the border, turn themselves in and tell their stories? maybe someone would investigate their situation and try to help. I don't know.. don't know how that works. But the bottom line is: you don't break the law unless the law is egregiously wrong in the eyes of GOD himself.. i think of the very best example: Roe v Wade.. We cannot accept the murder of children just b/c this stupid law says it is OK.. But i can't think of many laws/rulings that fit that category (like R v W does).

etc....

 

[forrestcupp]

I appreciate your apparent candor here.. better than some posters who just ramble on and barely say anything

in any case, i stand by what i said and stand by my stand on illegals. Why? Because i am a law and order person.. wasn't always, but once i studied Christian truth... began following Jesus... well... long s tory.. but in any case, the law is the law. Again, if someone doesn't like the law on illegals or anything else, work to change the laws... don't tell others to just violate the law. if these illegals were on the up and up, why don't they, once they crash the border, turn themselves in and tell their stories? maybe someone would investigate their situation and try to help. I don't know.. don't know how that works. But the bottom line is: you don't break the law unless the law is egregiously wrong in the eyes of GOD himself.. i think of the very best example: Roe v Wade.. We cannot accept the murder of children just b/c this stupid law says it is OK.. But i can't think of many laws/rulings that fit that category (like R v W does).

etc....

I agree, but it's still not as simple as that. Did you ever sin before you were saved? Yeah, this guy did wrong by coming illegally. But after he was already here, he gave his heart back to the Lord and received forgiveness. I'm well aware that doesn't relieve him from the consequences of the earthly law. But things got a lot more complicated when he married a loving American woman, and now they're about to have two kids. He's not a strain on society. He works his backside off at a good full time job, pays all the bills, and donates to his church. Not only that, but he has done everything within his power to gain legal status, even to the point of paying thousands of dollars in the necessary fees. But the problem is that you have to find a financially stable person to be a sponsor and guarantee that the immigrant will continue to not be a strain on society. It's pretty darned hard to find someone who is capable and willing to take the risk. So he has done everything possible within his power, and he is just looking for a sponsor. So how do you handle people in his situation. Do you mercilessly say, "You broke the law. Your wife and kids can't see you anymore"? Or do you start shipping American citizens out, too, and separate them from their families?

You said the answer is to work toward changing the law, and that was my whole point all along. We live in a democratic republic. The only way we can change the laws is by voting for our representatives. So to change this law, the only way to do that is to vote for a representative that supports that need. So you're starting to see my whole point, which was that it's not as simple as just voting for Cruz because he's against abortion. Some people have needs that are more immediate to them.

And I'm not even meaning to be a champion for immigration here. The only reason I brought that up was for one example of the fact that there are a lot more issues that are important to people than only abortion, which is also important.

 

[ScaliaFan]

I agree, but it's still not as simple as that. Did you ever sin before you were saved? Yeah, this guy did wrong by coming illegally. But after he was already here, he gave his heart back to the Lord and received forgiveness. I'm well aware that doesn't relieve him from the consequences of the earthly law. But things got a lot more complicated when he married a loving American woman, and now they're about to have two kids. He's not a strain on society. He works his backside off at a good full time job, pays all the bills, and donates to his church. Not only that, but he has done everything within his power to gain legal status, even to the point of paying thousands of dollars in the necessary fees. But the problem is that you have to find a financially stable person to be a sponsor and guarantee that the immigrant will continue to not be a strain on society. It's pretty darned hard to find someone who is capable and willing to take the risk. So he has done everything possible within his power, and he is just looking for a sponsor. So how do you handle people in his situation. Do you mercilessly say, "You broke the law. Your wife and kids can't see you anymore"? Or do you start shipping American citizens out, too, and separate them from their families?

You said the answer is to work toward changing the law, and that was my whole point all along. We live in a democratic republic. The only way we can change the laws is by voting for our representatives. So to change this law, the only way to do that is to vote for a representative that supports that need. So you're starting to see my whole point, which was that it's not as simple as just voting for Cruz because he's against abortion. Some people have needs that are more immediate to them.

And I'm not even meaning to be a champion for immigration here. The only reason I brought that up was for one example of the fact that there are a lot more issues that are important to people than only abortion, which is also important.

will you stop already with that accusation that all i care about is abortion???

life and death are the most important issues (esp to the victims of murder but they can't speak for themselves, so i speak for them), but I am not voting for Cruz just b/c he is pro life. I considered all the other 16 and i saw t hat Cruz, unlik the others, never said anything i disagreed with.

The others are pro-abortion. It's a no-brainer for a Christian

but if you don't mind betraying Christ... go ahead and vote for whomever... that iis your choice, can't stop you. But you will be held accountable i nthe End. In the Word it says clearly that we are judged by our deeds... says it over and over again, says nowhere that u can do whatever u want and violate God's laws to yor heart's content and get into Heaven. That is absolutely ridiculous and unbiblical, illogical (blashphemous)



-_-

 

[forrestcupp]

will you stop already with that accusation that all i care about is abortion???

life and death are the most important issues (esp to the victims of murder but they can't speak for themselves, so i speak for them), but I am not voting for Cruz just b/c he is pro life. I considered all the other 16 and i saw t hat Cruz, unlik the others, never said anything i disagreed with.

The others are pro-abortion. It's a no-brainer for a Christian

but if you don't mind betraying Christ... go ahead and vote for whomever... that iis your choice, can't stop you. But you will be held accountable i nthe End. In the Word it says clearly that we are judged by our deeds... says it over and over again, says nowhere that u can do whatever u want and violate God's laws to yor heart's content and get into Heaven. That is absolutely ridiculous and unbiblical, illogical (blashphemous)



-_-

So you don't want me to accuse you of only making it about abortion, but then your only argument against the others is that they are pro-abortion?

My only point is that different people have different immediate needs, and different politicians are better qualified to meet those different immediate needs. So I just don't see how you can tell someone that if they vote for a different guy than the one you agree with because he stands for the issues they face in their day to day lives, that they're not a Christian, and God is going to judge them. The last I knew, Christianity was about a relationship with God, and having Jesus as the Lord of your life, and not about worldly politics. We're not going to have a Theocracy until the next age.

But this debate is becoming circular and fruitless, so I'm out.

 

[ScaliaFan]

forrestcupp, on 26 Apr 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

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My only point is that different people have different immediate needs, and different politicians are better qualified to meet those different immediate needs. ​

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this is relativism, the notion that right and wrong are subjective, subject to the whims of whomever it is you are talking about. In other words, everyone makes his own morality. Murder isnt always wrong??? ​

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This is NOT Christian and this is the kind of evil ideas that are tearing this country and the world apart. Cruz is a Christian OBJECTIVELY speaking. Kasich is NOT because he says it is OK to kill the innocent.. ​

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He may call himself a christian, but objectively speaking, he is NOT​

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"Thou shalt not kill" says the Lord​

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and in a way it IS all about abortion b/c any person who would murder a child is NOT fit to be our president​

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but then again, maybe this country generally speaking DESERVES a murderer for president​

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what is ir, 60 million (? ...close enough...) dead since Roe v Wad??​

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disgusting​

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how someone eats is not disgusting. How someone lives (without God) definitely is​

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:blink: ​

 

[ScaliaFan]

liars promote liars

bullies promote bullies

Fox is a bully

 

[forrestcupp]

You just don't get it, man. I'm not talking about morality. I'm not talking about what is Christian and not Christian. I'm talking about living in this temporal world, and the reality of that is that everyone is struggling in their own way to make it through this life. Let me be hypothetical for a minute to try to explain what I'm getting at.

Let's say there is a guy named Ronald who is a Christian. Let's say Ronald also has ALS and his health is beginning to really debilitate. Now let's say there are 3 candidates running for president: Clarence, Vinny, and Thomas. Clarence is a Christian with a pretty clean past, and he is completely pro-life. Vinny never claimed to be a Christian, and he is completely pro-choice. Thomas has a rough history, he claims to be a Christian now, and he's pro-life, except for in a few drastic situations. So Ronald automatically rules out Vinny because Ronald is a Christian, and he cares about pro-life causes.

But now let's say one of Thomas' big campaign causes is trying to get the government to fund intense research for treatments and cures for ALS because his wife suffered from ALS. So are you going to judge Ronald and say he's not a Christian because he chooses to vote for the guy who wants to help him with his personal and immediate need?

 

[ScaliaFan]

they lie when they focus exclusively on ONE candidate, and NEVER tell you about his corruption and lies... everything BUT that

they use their power against us

bullies

but as to power.. What do you have that you have not been given (I ask the media)?

to whom more is given (whether power or whatever) more is required

 

[ScaliaFan]

they essentially lie when they do not give equal time to the candidates (perpetrating the lie that THEY know best who we should vote for.. Right.. we know how the last 2 electios have gone..??)

. Maybe there should be a new law (since people never want to do the rght thing unless its a law, if then)

if the media show 15 minutes of one candidate, they have to show 15 minutes of another

the presidency is too important not to give ALL candidates time... give America time... to decide who is really best


disgusting how abysmally unfair the media is... to Christian candidates... which as we know are SOOO incredibly RARE

 

[forrestcupp]

they essentially lie when they do not give equal time to the candidates (perpetrating the lie that THEY know best who we should vote for.. Right.. we know how the last 2 electios have gone..??)

. Maybe there should be a new law (since people never want to do the rght thing unless its a law, if then)

if the media show 15 minutes of one candidate, they have to show 15 minutes of another

the presidency is too important not to give ALL candidates time... give America time... to decide who is really best


disgusting how abysmally unfair the media is... to Christian candidates... which as we know are SOOO incredibly RARE

I know someone right now who is whining about the same thing for Bernie Sanders.

 

[ScaliaFan]

I know someone right now who is whining about the same thing for Bernie Sanders.

so. At least Bernie is more/less honest

too bad he is a baby killer.. (accomplice to it).. will never get my vote