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The Metaphoric Explanation of the Holy Bible – Discovering True Christianity

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Shanmugam, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Even if they did have a copy, how would they know how to interpret it? For example, what does not eating milk and meat together mean? At the same meal? Could you take away a meat meal and then immediately have another meal with milk? How long was there to be between the two? Or walls on a roof? How high should they be?

    Many laws also got reinterpreted when culture changed. Thus it was completely allowable when the Sanhedrin agreed not to execute anyone when they wanted to make peace with the Romans. They could set aside the death penalty if they wanted; and they did because it saved countless lives.

    I would wager few Christians would know the correct way to interpret "an eye for an eye." The average Jew in Jesus' day apparently did not; and most Christians today don't.
     
  2. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    WADR, if it came down to believing Paul or you, I would go with what Paul said.

    The New Testament talks about these three realities for believers:

    1. We have been saved from the penalty of sin. We have been crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20); we have put off the old self and put on the new self (Col 3:10). We are new creations in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17).
    2. We are being saved from the power of sin. We must put to death what belongs to the worldly nature (Col 3:5).
    3. We will be saved from the presence of sin. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed (1 Cor 15:52).​

    I also found this online.

    He HAS saved us (regeneration) – Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

    He IS saving us (sanctification) – 2 Cor. 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

    He WILL save us (glorification) – 1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.



     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  3. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    So which is it?
     
  4. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Are you trying to wear me out, lol?

    It’s all three...simultaneously.
     
  5. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't make sense. If someone is already saved, it doesn't make sense to say he will be saved in the future.

    Paul wears me out. Here's one example.

    Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    But Paul says no to that.

    Romans 9:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

    You want more times when he contradicts Jesus?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  6. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t make sense, but it does. o_O
     
  7. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    What about Paul's speech in Acts where he contradicts Jesus?

    Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

    Matthew 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
     
  8. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Off the top of my head, when Jesus made this statement, God dwelled in the building called the Temple. When Paul made that statement, believers had become the temple of the Holy Spirit. So, both of those statements were true even though they SEEM to contradict each other.
     
  9. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I see no reason to think God left the Temple in Jerusalem at that point in time. Didn't James keep visiting it?

    Jesus said some people were righteous under the law. Paul denied that.

    Mt 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

    Mt 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

    Mt 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.


    Luke called people righteous.

    Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

    I believe there are probably other passages too in the Gospels about this; Genesis also called Noah righteous, but Paul said no.

    Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
    12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


    Paul is citing Scripture but out of context.

    Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
    2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
    3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
    4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.
    5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.


    David was writing about fools, but Paul seems to think it means everyone when in fact verse 5 speaks about the righteous.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  10. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't that what the mission of Jesus? To open access to God (who had been dwelling in the Holy of Holies) to all people by his blood? When Jesus died, the veil of the Temple was torn in two, signifying this. You're a student of the Bible. Study the book of Hebrews if you don't understand this.

    I have not studied these other seeming contradictions that you quote, so I can't explain them. I have no doubt that there are Bible scholars who can. I'm sure that if you used your brain to find valid answers, you could, instead of casting doubt on God's Word.

    What do you hope to accomplish by doing such a thing? Do you hope to turn people away from the Bible as God Holy Word?
     
  11. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    This is your problem! YOU see no reason....

    Read my post above. I'm done for the day.
     
  12. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    You seem to think that was the earthly veil? It was not. That did not happen in earthly terms. Don't you think the Jews would have noticed if it had been the earthly veil? Josephus loved to report miraculous events; and he's silent on that. That described the heavenly veil.

    Josephus relates how the massive gate to the Temple opened by itself. That was in AD 66; and that gate was so big, it took more than one man to open and close. The Pharisees had been expecting another exile; and when that happened, it was seen by many as God opening the gate and His Glory departing.

    I do not consider what Paul wrote "God's Word." Don't point the finger at blame at me since if you weren't so in favor of Paul, I wouldn't be discussing these things. You wearied me with so much Pauline philosophy, I thought it about time to start wearying you.

    There are other contradictions I find even more shocking.
     
  13. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    You believe Josephus over the Gospel accounts in God's Holy Bible?

    Contradictions YOU find shocking? Have you given Bible scholars a chance to explain? I know that I've quoted some commentaries for you on seeming contradictions, but you don't seem to want to listen. You have your own ideas.

    You don't consider Paul's epistles to be God's Word? "Pauline philosophy?" And yet, don't you use Paul's words to prove a point sometimes?

    I'm the one who is shocked by what you are saying. You are willing to cast doubt in people's minds about God's Holy Bible because you think there are contradictions.
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  14. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    The plain English words of Bible Scripture, that have been quoted to you, are above every commentary.
     
  15. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    The Bible does not say specifically it was the veil in the earthly Temple. That's a mere assumption on your part. Have you not read:

    Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
    24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


    So why assume it was the earthly veil? Surely the patterns in Heaven are more meaningful.
    Find things that aren't so feeble.

    I like some things Paul says; but other times, he appears confused. If people's faith in God depends on their faith in Paul, shame on them! When I have time, perhaps I will post some things I find even more shocking from Paul's writings. Indeed there are times when I wonder if he in fact wrote everything attributed to him. I mean, what would you think when he makes a mistake that only someone reading the Greek version of the Old Testament would make? If he studied with Gamaliel, surely he would have known what it said in Hebrew.

    Moses and the prophets spoke the Word. Jesus spoke the Word -- his very words were spirit -- and when Paul contradicts Jesus himself, what am I to think?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  16. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a point?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  17. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    What you're saying here reminded of something in Acts.

    Act 19:11-16--And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

    Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

    Who are you???
     
  18. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Trying to show you have contempt for me personally? Why not stay on topic, or are you unable to say anything sensible on what we're discussing and think you can divert attention from that by impugning me?
     
  19. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Have you torn out and discarded over half your New Testament????

    Since that is what Paul wrote. And Bible-believing Christians accept the whole New Testament as the Word of God.
    There are absolutely no contradictions in the Word of God. If there were any, it would no longer be Scripture.
     
  20. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    He not only tore out Paul's epistles, he also believes what Josephus wrote over the Gospel accounts, so why not tear them out too? He just pretty much eliminated what I live by. Let's see. What's left in the NT? Acts, a few other short epistles and Revelation. :(
     
    Enoch111 likes this.
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