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The Metaphoric Explanation of the Holy Bible – Discovering True Christianity

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Shanmugam, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    That is an outright lie about taking Josephus' word over Matthew. I said no such thing.

    I would also recommend taking what Jesus had to say more seriously and live by his sayings instead of placing so much faith in Paul.

    Now for another contradiction, let's look at this. It looks as if Paul would have also have criticized Jesus.

    1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

    Mark 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
    16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
    17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
     
  2. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Try answering some of the questions in this thread then instead of making a blanket statement.
     
  3. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    So, you continue to disparage God’s Word based on your lack of understanding. Do you think you will not be held accountable on Judgment Day?
     
  4. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Are personal attacks all you have left?
     
  5. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    The above is what you said. You said that if the veil had literally been torn in two, Josephus would have reported it, but he didn't, so it did not happen.... And yet, the Gospel of Matthew is perfectly clear about this. The veil was torn from top to bottom.

    Matthew 27:50-51a
    Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
    .
     
  6. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    It appears that your focus is riveted to only to what mere men interpret, and not what the Holy Spirit discerns for meaning of God's word.
    Isaiah 5:8-9; John 16:13
     
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  7. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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  8. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    There were several of the other examples you have that I could have answered, but four the time being I will offer this...
    Notice what Paul said...if any man that is called a brother...in other words, anyone who claims the name of Christ as savior, but lives the life of the hypocrite, have nothing too do with him.
    Christ on the other hand did indeed spend time with sinners...The lost and the weary...The spiritually poor who recognised their poverty...The sorrowful over their own spiritual wretchedness...The meek who were devoid of pride...The hungry and thirsty for righteousness...those willing to forgive others...those pure in heart...The peacemakers...And those hated by the religious establishment...
    Those are the ones Jesus associated with and blessed. They all are the opposite to hypocrites...there is no contradiction.
     
  9. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    As for the Jews being at an advantage because they were given the oracles of God...yes, the oracles in their original form were oral, but they were also written down, as per God's specific instructions...
    KJV Exodus 17
    14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
    KJV Exodus 34
    27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
    KJV Deuteronomy 17
    18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
    19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
    20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

    The oracles of God...The sayings of God...The word of God was written and recorded, yet never ceased to be His word...His sayings...His oracles.
     
  10. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    The practice, and the natural inclination of man, is to avenge and take more than what was taken. Jesus was revealing the innate inability of man to accurately ascertain the true value of suffering and thus to leave vengeance in God's hands who knew true justice.

    Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, were dead. Jesus rose and at the resurrection will some time in the future be the God of those who are now dead, and those then living.
    Note...dwells not in temples made with hands any longer...but in a temple made by God. In the literal heavenly temple which the earthly temple was a copy...And the church made by the work of the spirit of God in which God dwells by His spirit.
     
  11. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    You're on the right track, but there's more to it.
    Hardly. You amend the words of Jesus to derive what you want to believe. God is not the God of the dead but of the living -- a direct statement that doesn't need adjustments. I can not change my mind on this point since I've seen and talked with Abraham and Sarah who are very much alive.

    If you want to find the dead, go looking in the carnal world. "Let the dead bury the dead."
    Again you amend the Scripture to get what you want out of it by adding "any longer." Perhaps God does no longer dwell in earthly temples built by hands; but that does not mean the Glory of God had already left the Temple when Paul was writing. Why did the Apostles still go the Temple? Why did even Paul go to it?

    Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
    47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

    Acts 24:18 Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  12. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I think you still missed it. The Jews in a later era also thought they had the "Law of the LORD" but did not.

    Jeremiah 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

    Without the correct understanding, you might as well not have the written words which form the "letter" of the Law while neglecting the Spirit. Notice that Moses did more than write down things in a book -- he spoke to Joshua. The "real truth" is transmitted orally -- faith comes by hearing, not by reading.

    The problem for the Jews was to struggle with the written laws, after they had rejected the Living Word, the Voice of God, at Sinai. They could not understand those written laws for themselves, for the most part, and they knew it. That's why the Sanhedrin was established to help them know how to understand it and how to obey it. The goal, from the establishing of the written law, was to have Israel find the defects on their hearts so they could hear the Voice of God and write the laws on their circumcised hearts.

    Jesus ran into the same problem Jeremiah had. People thought they understand the Law of Moses when in fact they didn't. They had the letter but not the Spirit. It was a recurrent problem; and since they had rejected God and were trying to find Him again, the Spirit could not dwell in most of them. Thus the Spirit could not correct things like uncleanness that resulted from sin. Even if they repented of the sin, they were left with that uncleanness, so the animal sacrifices were instituted. . . and abused until God had enough of them. If they had wanted to hear the Voice of God, none of the animal sacrifices would have been needed. Obedience is better than sacrifice; and the contrite heart is the correct sacrifice.

    Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

    David has the same problem, comparing the situation in his day to that of Moses.

    Psalm 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker.
    7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
    8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
    9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
    10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
     
  13. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Who is Paul to judge so since he says elsewhere that all things are lawful?

    I also intend to discuss the eating of food offered to idols later. I wonder how Paul would have felt if the other Apostles had rejected him for eating food offered to idols after they all agreed Christians shouldn't.
     
  14. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Does God reveal things to come to you?
     
  15. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Personal attacks are not all that I have offered, but you aren't listening. You have your own ideas--like Israel who repeatedly did what was right in their own eyes. We see how that turned out! Not too well for Israel.

    In the process of trying to prove that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, you could be hurting others with your heretical talk. I've been clear that I'm not up to debating every little problem you have the Bible. No doubt there are plenty of Christians who are up to it and could explain everything you want to know. But you seem to be intent on staying on the wrong track, so I doubt that you would listen to anyone.
     
  16. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Through Bible scripture, and by His Holy Spirit, Yes God does reveal to me His truth about His own words.
     
  17. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but is it physical or spiritual? People today not knowing history misinterpret him think the Gospels are discussing earthy events while people alive then would haven known better. As for "literal" -- that can apply to either spiritual or earthly. I said it didn't happen in an "earthly" fashion. You are either confused or wish to defame me and said I said it didn't happen "literally." I guess however if you cannot see how the veil in Heaven that was an obstacle before was no longer necessary, you can't see it -- and a "new veil" was put in place.

    Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
    20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
    21 And having an high priest over the house of God;


    Nor was the Star of Bethlehem an earthly star. If it had been, Herod could have seen it for himself and followed it. It was "literally" a star, to be sure, but it was a "spiritual star." It was the Star prophesied to arise out of Jacob.
     
  18. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    The question was if the Holy Spirit revealed "things that are to come" to you. You cited the Scripture. I'm asking you about it.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, [these] shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
     
  19. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    It's dangerous to assume that something was merely spiritual unless the Bible makes this clear. Of course, the literal veil being torn in two also had huge spiritual implications. So, it's both/and, not either/or in this case.

    Again, you make dangerous assumptions here. The Magi studied the physical stars. That's what they SAW and followed.

    With your line of reasoning, any truth in the Bible could be reasoned away. It's man's faulty reasoning, not God's.
    .
     
  20. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    You continue with the insults just as were insulting before. You say I"m wrong but incapable of showing it. Does that make sense?
    I also remind you that I seem to take the Bible more seriously than many including you who alter it according to your set of beliefs or tradition. I site "faith come by hearing" and you add "and by reading" to it. I am not disparaging "God's Word." I say with Moses and Jesus that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Jesus' life is an example of doing just that.
     
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