The moral argument of God's existence - a modern approach

[eugenelester]

From all arguments that prove the existence of God, the moral argument is the easiest, the strongest, the most direct and the most incontestable one.
But its presentation and usage — or, it's better to say, how believers do not use it — makes me despondent. The most up-to-date and perhaps the most successful presentation of the moral argument we meet in the book of the famous apologet of modern Сhristianity Clive Staples Lewis “Mere Christianity”. That is where I firstly learned and understood it. After that I began to use it in the discussions with atheists. The experience of these discussions, challenges of modern science and society make me to create new, clear for understanding and readable formula of this argument with having a single meaning and direct indication to the fact of God’s existence.
That’s why I introduce the new variant of formulating the moral argument.
More by link: The moral argument - a modern approach | Apologet

 

[DPMartin]

well continue to be despondent


morals are not the reason their is a God, period.
morals are merely what is agreed between two or more. and humans can come into agreements with or without God in mind. two can agree to do wickedness and one can deceive the other by agreeing and then do otherwise, as in betrayal, which is immoral by any standard. for example marriage is an agreement between two, or borders between nation are agreed on. so on and so forth.


people that think morals are proof of God don't understand that it is God who makes agreements with men, called covenants, the ten commandments are a covenant hence a agreement between the Lord God of Israel and the Children of Israel. even Jesus Christ is a covenant between the world (all of mankind) and God.

proof of God's existence is on God, even though one sees all that there is and it's greatness, because what God does is great. it's on God to grant the knowledge of His existence to anyone. we can only promote the need to seek Him out in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Job]

proof of God's existence is on God, even though one sees all that there is and it's greatness, because what God does is great. it's on God to grant the knowledge of His existence to anyone. we can only promote the need to seek Him out in the name of Jesus Christ.

I believe that too.

John 6
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
<snip>
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”


I believe if there was proof of His existence, there would be no need for faith and the sacrifice of His only begotten would have been for nothing.
.

 

[Helen]

Jesus Christ is a covenant between the world (all of mankind) and God.

proof of God's existence is on God, even though one sees all that there is and it's greatness, because what God does is great. it's on God to grant the knowledge of His existence to anyone. we can only promote the need to seek Him out in the name of Jesus Christ.

Love that post..well said...excellent! Strong nodding of the head here


I also liked Job's post too :- Quote....."I believe if there was proof of His existence, there would be no need for faith and the sacrifice of His only begotten would have been for nothing." Amen to that also.
.

 

[DPMartin]

I believe that too.

John 6
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
<snip>
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”


I believe if there was proof of His existence, there would be no need for faith and the sacrifice of His only begotten would have been for nothing.
.

well what is the need for faith? belief and trust can be in anything. you can't believe what you've never heard or seen, (there should something else but I haven't finish my coffee yet) as a small child one believes and trusts just about everything one's parents or guardian tells them. the proof that one's parents are, is the knowledge of the experience, but when does the child stop trusting and believing his parents that he knows exists?

Adam experienced the Presence of God but yet didn't believe or trust the Word of God expressed in the commandment to Adam which is the agreement of being in the garden and listened to Eve. Adam was made then placed into the garden, therefore the agreement that was the and still is the basis of "morals" relative to Adam Eve and God (the Creator and Judge of all things)

revelation is proof for sure, but when Israel was in the desert they had revelation via acts of God day in and day out many still refused to believe trust follow Moses and honor the Lord their God's Judgements.

one can see an airplane one can see it flies but many don't trust flying in it. you don't need the faith to know that the plane is, but you need the faith to fly in it.