The Mystery of Abraham's Works that do and don't Justify

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus cannot compromise His perfect, holy standard so of course He is not going to say, go and just sin a little

So you would rather make Christ into a liar than to submit to his command?

“He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings” (John 14:24)

You’re exposed Dan.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The woman caught in adultery left her life of living in adultery, but that doesnt necessarily mean that she remained sinless 100% of the time from that point on.

And if she didn’t she did not love Christ and falls condemned by the wound of this sword strike:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

 

[mailmandan]

So you would rather make Christ into a liar than to submit to his command?

“He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings” (John 14:24)

Your exposed Dan.

Oh the irony. It's YOU who has been exposed.

 

[robert derrick]

In Heb 5-6, Paul was warning and rebuking the babes that refused to grow up and go on to the perfection of their dying faith, and do the works of justification even as Abraham.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

There is nothing accompanying faith alone babies, that reject the justifying works that must accompany salvation to perfect the faith in us:

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

If we are not perfecting the faith of God in us with works of His righteousness and crucifixion of the flesh, as Abraham did, then our faith toward God becomes all alone and dead as seed and root in dry ground. It is no better than the faith toward God of devils, who at least still quake and temple, rather than play celebration games of helpless grace.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Oh the irony. It's YOU who has been exposed.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Faith with works salvationists is true. Works salvationists is not. Even as faith alone salvationism is imaginary.

Here, let Paul clarify it for you. Justification is not a reward of debt for works completed:

"4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Romans 4:4​

And so justification is a reward of faith without works.

"6 ...unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" Romans 4:6​

That doesn't mean faith is absent works. It means the works that accompany faith play no role whatsoever in MAKING you righteous. That is done entirely through the cleansing of God's forgiveness in the canceling of your sin debt. It gets canceled, not worked off.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

and do the works of justification even as Abraham.

Yes, James is talking about justifying works. But not works that MAKE you righteous. That happens ALL BY ITSELF through the forgiveness and removal of your sin guilt that you receive by faith.

 

[robert derrick]

I have thoroughly explained the truth to you and have properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. I really don't care for your false teachings or your slander.

Nor do I accept your lying about the teaching, which you do not deny. You cannot possibly correct anything, until you first state it clearly and not lie about it for effect.

Faith with works is Scripture. Faith alone salvation is dead, and works salvation is false.

 

[robert derrick]

Here, let Paul clarify it for you. Justification is not a reward of debt for works completed:

These are your words, not mine nor God's. You cannot possibly correct anything, until you at least state it as written.

Especially when you don't even address what is being taught. Go back and read the teaching, state it plainly, and then correct it if possible. If you do fairly correct it, then you help to perfect it, and I would thank you for it.

Until then, you are useless to me in this matter.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Faith with works is Scripture.

It is. BUT NOT FOR THE IMPUTATION OF GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS. That happens ENTIRELY by having your sin guilt and unrighteousness forgiven. The work that accompanies salvation is just that...it accompanies salvation, not procures it. Works are the expression of your ongoing and continuing faith by which you secured the forgiveness of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

These are your words, not mine nor God's. You cannot possibly correct anything, until you at least state it as written.

I posted the scripture.
What do you find lacking in Paul's words?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Especially when you don't even address what is being taught. Go back and read the teaching, state it plainly, and then correct it if possible. If you do fairly correct it, then you help to perfect it, and I would thank you for it.

Do you believe that works MAKE you righteous?

 

[MatthewG]

Works of faith/good works and important. They glorify God and are good and profitable to men. (Matthew 5:16; Titus 3:8) We just need to understand that we are saved FOR good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

To me that is very good that you believe that they are important for a believer in their relationship to be partaking in works of faith and good work which are important to the life of a Christian whos life is now the Lord Jesus Christ, by abiding and continuing to have faith in the death, burial, and resurrection moving forward towards becoming no longer a Child of God, but a Son or a Daughter of God, allowing ourselves to walk by faith, and also walk in the spirit, if the spirit does indeed reside with-in us as believers, right now even.

 

[robert derrick]

No works of the flesh as by law can be boasted of, because simply not transgressing the law is nothing to boast of. Works of faith that crucify the flesh justify us as Abraham.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

No amount of pretty words, twisting of Scripture, or Greek expose can change the simple truth of Scripture, that no man is justified, until after the perfecting work to faith is accomplished.

Abraham was not justified with God, until after he had offered up Isaac, and no child of Abraham in the faith is ever justified by Christ, until after we do the same and are walking with Jesus, even as Abraham walked with the God of Israel and was called His Friend.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

No doing the work, no friendship, no justification.

Faith aloners separate their own salvation from fellowship and friendship with Jesus, in order to do away with any hint of perfecting the faith by working to crucify the flesh on our own cross.

Salvation only begins with forgiveness of past sinning, and justification only begins with crucifying the sinning.

That crucifying of our old selves begins immediately within the heart, upon being forgiven of past sins, to purify our heart of lust and our mind of every tempting thought, that comes against knowing Jesus and walking as our justified father Abraham walked in the fear of the Lord:

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Faith aloners that reject the perfecting works to faith, have no fear of God in their own eyes, because they imagine for themselves salvation and justification based on their own lies. They only believe themselves saved and justified without works, and that's not enough for God:

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[mailmandan]

Nor do I accept your lying about the teaching, which you do not deny. You cannot possibly correct anything, until you first state it clearly and not lie about it for effect.

Faith with works is Scripture. Faith alone salvation is dead, and works salvation is false.

I'm not lying. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and authentic faith is evidenced works. (James 2:14-24) Simple.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Works of faith that crucify the flesh justify us as Abraham.

But do they MAKE you righteous?
Do you receive the imputation of God's righteousness by doing works of faith?

 

[mailmandan]

And if she didn’t she did not love Christ and falls condemned by the wound of this sword strike:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

The willful sin here is rejecting Christ deliberately by rejecting His Sacrifice for sin. This isn't about sinless perfection. I already thoroughly explained this to you multiple times before. Your continued misunderstanding and blatant eisegesis is disturbing!

 

[robert derrick]

Yes, James is talking about justifying works. But not works that MAKE you righteous. That happens ALL BY ITSELF through the forgiveness and removal of your sin guilt that you receive by faith.

Wordplay doesn't make truth.

You can say you're righteous and you can say you are made righteous by faith alone, and you will still have to say you are not justified by Christ by faith alone, but only after the work of faith is done in the spirit and in the flesh.

No man unjustified by Christ is saved by Christ, no matter how righteous or made righteous we want to call ourselves by our own faith alone.

Either confirm James 2:24 or reject it.

I know your works are good, but your doctrine is lousy playing of words. You don't live OSAS, but you certainly teach it, when it comes to being justified by Christ, which is being made righteous by obedience to Christ, even as He obeyed the Father:

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Until we obey as that One, we are not made righteous as that One. I've already corrected you once in this same thing, and so I'll not be doing it again.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

We must seek to be justified by Christ, once we believe. How? By faith alone? No, but by works of faith as our father Abraham also sought to be justified by Christ in offering up Isaac.

I don't play with words in English or Greek or Hebrew, but I just quote Scripture as written and teach it God's way in His own words.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No amount of pretty words, twisting of Scripture, or Greek expose can change the simple truth of Scripture, that no man is justified, until after the perfecting work to faith is accomplished.

Okay.
So help us to make sure we understand your argument.
Which definition of 'justified' are you referring to, #1, or #2?
↓↓↓

justify
tr.v. jus·ti·fied, jus·ti·fy·ing, jus·ti·fies
1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
2. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.

justify
(red highlighting by me)

 

[mailmandan]

It is. BUT NOT FOR THE IMPUTATION OF GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS. That happens ENTIRELY by having your sin guilt and unrighteousness forgiven. The work that accompanies salvation is just that...it accompanies salvation, not procures it. Works are the expression of your ongoing and continuing faith by which you secured the forgiveness of God.

Amen and well said! Apparently, Robert just doesn't get this.