The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Correct.

There is one divine person fully indwelling one (made a)quickening spirit, human person, bodily(Col 2:9).

No 3 persons, but one divine inside one human, bodily.

Natural men cannot understand God.1cor2:14.
You need to be born again to begin to understand these things.
Without the Spirit it cannot happen that is why you do not grasp it.
Repent and believe the gospel.

 

[Truther]

Natural men cannot understand God.1cor2:14.
You need to be born again to begin to understand these things.
Without the Spirit it cannot happen that is why you do not grasp it.
Repent and believe the gospel.

The gospel is not the trinity doctrine. The gospel is the “God inside Christ” doctrine.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You made it relevant when you linked the JW New World Translation with all the other modern translations, the bulk of which involved Hebrew and Greek scholars in the translation teams where the New World translaters didn't.

Anyhow, the Catholic church depended on Jerome's Latin Vulgate, which had many errors in it, so it might be a matter of the pot calling the kettle black.

Correct brother, the new world mistranslation is an abomination.
Charles Russel could not read the greek alphabet, much less translate greek texts,lol.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The gospel is not the trinity doctrine. The gospel is the “God inside Christ” doctrine.

My friend....you do not understand the nature of the good news as you have identified yourself as being outside the Kingdom of God.
You cannot deny the true and living God and claim to be in His Kingdom.

 

[Enow]

Correct.

There is one divine person fully indwelling one (made a)quickening spirit, human person, bodily(Col 2:9).

No 3 persons, but one divine inside one human, bodily.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

There are evidence that 1 John 5:7 was originally part of scripture and you can find it provided by an author David W. Daniels from an excerpt from his book shown at a wen page at this site; Chick.com: Is 1 John 5:7 not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s? If it is true, why is it in the KJV?

David explains there are some manuscripts testifying to that verse but he goes on to explain why it was omitted in an area in time and he gives a list of extra-biblical references as citing 1 John 5:7 as is in scripture.

One such earlier reference is below;

"250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)"

 

[Truther]

My friend....you do not understand the nature of the good news as you have identified yourself as being outside the Kingdom of God.
You cannot deny the true and living God and claim to be in His Kingdom.

Sure I can.

The fact is, there is only one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.

That's it, no add on's. It is super easy to understand.

 

[Truther]

The next verse says this....

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

There are evidence that 1 John 5:7 was originally part of scripture and you can find it provided by an author David W. Daniels from an excerpt from his book shown at a wen page at this site; Chick.com: Is 1 John 5:7 not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s? If it is true, why is it in the KJV?

David explains there are some manuscripts testifying to that verse but he goes on to explain why it was omitted in an area in time and he gives a list of extra-biblical references as citing 1 John 5:7 as is in scripture.

One such earlier reference is below;

"250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)"

Please explain who these 3 witnesses are in the very next verse...


8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

[Enow]

The next verse says this....
Please explain who these 3 witnesses are in the very next verse...
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

In context to verse 9, verse 8 would be the witness given by men with the Holy Ghost of His death at the cross for why the 3 Witnesses from Heaven as in the witness of God of His resurrection and ascension is greater than the witness of men on earth by the Holy Ghost of His death at the cross.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Jesus said He cannot bear witness of Himself or else His witness is not true; John 5:31. In Matthew 3:15-17, God the Father bear witness of His Son at His water baptism along with the witness of the Holy Spirit's to make the Father's testimony from Heaven true which is required by His words for any testimony to be true; John 8:17. Paul reconfirms this truth for any witness to be established as true in 2 Corinthians 13:1.

So the reason God can establish a word in creation is because there are 2 other Witnesses with the Son's in establishing a word in creation. The request for man to be created in "our image and after our likeness" supports that Three Witnesses within the One God.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Indeed, when God judged the people at the tower of Babel, the request to go down and scatter them was in the plural sense and yet when "They" did it, it was as the One God.

Genesis 11:5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

If God the Father does not judge any one, then the One God can with the Three Persons/Three Witnesses within that One God ( John 5:22-23 )

So God's commandments on men in establishing a testimony or to judge any one ( Deuteronomy 17:6 & Deuteronomy 19:15 ), it cannot be done by One Person, and so as God commands, so as He does by the Three Persons within the One God.

So God cannot be a One Person God, but a Three Persons as within the One God for that One God to judge or establish a true witness from Himself.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Sure I can.

The fact is, there is only one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.
Eb
That's it, no add on's. It is super easy to understand.

Yes ,especially when we discover he left the glory of heaven to take upon himself the form of a servant,a human body to save the elect children,
phil2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


heb2,
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.




it is simple

 

[Truther]

Yes ,especially when we discover he left the glory of heaven to take upon himself the form of a servant,a human body to save the elect children, phil2 heb2,it is simple

God thought it’s not robbery to be equal with Himself?

Or, a perfect man thought it not robbery to be equal with God?

 

[Truther]

In context to verse 9, verse 8 would be the witness given by men with the Holy Ghost of His death at the cross for why the 3 Witnesses from Heaven as in the witness of God of His resurrection and ascension is greater than the witness of men on earth by the Holy Ghost of His death at the cross.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Jesus said He cannot bear witness of Himself or else His witness is not true; John 5:31. In Matthew 3:15-17, God the Father bear witness of His Son at His water baptism along with the witness of the Holy Spirit's to make the Father's testimony from Heaven true which is required by His words for any testimony to be true; John 8:17. Paul reconfirms this truth for any witness to be established as true in 2 Corinthians 13:1.

So the reason God can establish a word in creation is because there are 2 other Witnesses with the Son's in establishing a word in creation. The request for man to be created in "our image and after our likeness" supports that Three Witnesses within the One God.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Indeed, when God judged the people at the tower of Babel, the request to go down and scatter them was in the plural sense and yet when "They" did it, it was as the One God.

Genesis 11:5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

If God the Father does not judge any one, then the One God can with the Three Persons/Three Witnesses within that One God ( John 5:22-23 )

So God's commandments on men in establishing a testimony or to judge any one ( Deuteronomy 17:6 & Deuteronomy 19:15 ), it cannot be done by One Person, and so as God commands, so as He does by the Three Persons within the One God.

So God cannot be a One Person God, but a Three Persons as within the One God for that One God to judge or establish a true witness from Himself.

You went ballistic in trying to explain that.
It is really simple. It means manifestations of God, not persons.
The 2 verses are not about persons.


God manifested Himself as a Father, in His son, and as the Holy Spirit.
Also revealed by God are the Spirit, water and blood....all are from the same being, which is one being.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Again the Greek word for Peter's name is not the same as the rock Jesus was talking about.

HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version

Go to this site, in the left column scroll down to Matthew in blue and click on the #16 in blue to pull up that chapter. Then scroll down on the right to those verses where the Greek words in blue are mirroring the verses in English.

Then click on PetroV for the name of Peter and then click on petra for the rock Jesus is talking about in verse 18.

PetroV is "apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle:--Peter, rock. Compare KhfaV - Kephas 2786.

Kephas or Cephas is stone; piece of rock.

Petra is "feminine of the same as PetroV - Petros 4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock.

So not the same Greek word nor the exact same meaning for why Peter's name is regarded as Cephas or stone. If it was exactly the same meaning, then "petra" would be unnecessary, but it was necessary because the difference is size.



Same keys given to His disciples and so you are forgetting that there were other disciples in that room when you applied Jesus's words only to Peter himself.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

These keys to binding and loosing is given to every believer abiding in Him in correcting others, even those considered the little ones that go astray.

Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

So Peter is not so exclusive as you had been led to believe.



As important as that line of succession is per the CC, we do not see that as being taught as such in the N.T. That was just a con line to keep the authority of ruling over the churches from Rome.

The trouble is that although the gates of hell has not prevailed over the true church, ie: the multitude of born-gain believers alive, and in Paradise, the gates of hell has prevailed over the RCC in that it is totally corrupted by paganism and false doctrine.

Paul did say that grievous wolves would enter the flock, and that men among themselves would rise up and teach perverse things to draw disciples away after themselves. Jesus said that false prophets would arise, and John said to test all things because many false prophets had gone out into the world. Anti-Charismatics love applying this to Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, but they miss the RCC which has its share of grievous wolves, false teachers, fraudulent doctrine, and false "prophets" in the form of popes giving new "revelation" from the false "chair of Peter".

 

[Paul Christensen]

Correct.

There is one divine person fully indwelling one (made a)quickening spirit, human person, bodily(Col 2:9).

No 3 persons, but one divine inside one human, bodily.

This is Oneness Pentecostal doctrine. It comes out of the "Jesus Only" movement inspired by William Branham, an evangelist of the mid 20th Century. The first adherents were called "Branhamites".

 

[Paul Christensen]

Sure I can.

The fact is, there is only one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.

That's it, no add on's. It is super easy to understand.

A mediator is one who mediates between two parties. The mediator process is made up of a threesome. Person A, Person B and the mediator Person C. So, Scripturally, Person A is man, Person B is God, and Person C is Jesus Christ.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

God thought it’s not robbery to be equal with Himself?

Or, a perfect man thought it not robbery to be equal with God?

IT HAS THE IDEA OF HE DID NOT THINK HE NEEDED TO HOLD ONTO The visible manifestation of his glory.
He laid it aside so he could come to redeem those given to Him.

Notice....He took upon Himself a Physical body, God is Spirit,Jn4;24 and yet because we were physical he likewise took upon himself a body that could physically die, to save us;
watch here;
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

He already eternally existed as God.....He took upon Himself the form

 

[Enow]

You went ballistic in trying to explain that.

Did I?

It is really simple. It means manifestations of God, not persons.
The 2 verses are not about persons.

According to His words, One person/witness cannot judge or condemn any one; Deuteronomy 17:6 & Deuteronomy 19:15

So how can a One Person God judge any one? How can a One Person God bear witness of Himself if Jesus says to bear witness of self is not a true witness per John 5:31 or another or even to establish a true testimony when His words requires 2 in John 8:17?

God manifested Himself as a Father, in His son, and as the Holy Spirit.
Also revealed by God are the Spirit, water and blood....all are from the same being, which is one being.

No. Because if Jesus says He cannot bear witness of Himself, then the One Person God with three different titles is a god bearing false witness, but He is not because there are Three Witnesses within the One God.

So if you do not want to see the scripture testifying to the Three Persons within that One God, then the discussion is at an impasse & we agree to disagree.

 

[Truther]

Did I?



According to His words, One person/witness cannot judge or condemn any one; Deuteronomy 17:6 & Deuteronomy 19:15

So how can a One Person God judge any one? How can a One Person God bear witness of Himself if Jesus says to bear witness of self is not a true witness per John 5:31 or another or even to establish a true testimony when His words requires 2 in John 8:17?



No. Because if Jesus says He cannot bear witness of Himself, then the One Person God with three different titles is a god bearing false witness, but He is not because there are Three Witnesses within the One God.

So if you do not want to see the scripture testifying to the Three Persons within that One God, then the discussion is at an impasse & we agree to disagree.

There is 2.

God and a man, correct?....



For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Truther]

IT HAS THE IDEA OF HE DID NOT THINK HE NEEDED TO HOLD ONTO The visible manifestation of his glory.
He laid it aside so he could come to redeem those given to Him.

Notice....He took upon Himself a Physical body, God is Spirit,Jn4;24 and yet because we were physical he likewise took upon himself a body that could physically die, to save us;
watch here;
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

He already eternally existed as God.....He took upon Himself the form

Here is what you read it like...

6 Who, GOD, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But GOD made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and GOD was made in the likeness of men:

8 And GOD, being found in fashion as a man, he GOD humbled himself, and GOD became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him GOD, and given him(SELF) a name which is above every name:


Now, here is how it is supposed to be read....


6 Who, THE MAN JESUS being in the form(IMAGE) of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But THE MAN JESUS made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form(ROLE) of a servant, and THE MAN JESUS was made in the likeness of men:

8 And THE MAN JESUS being found in fashion as a man(NOT SPIRIT), he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him(THE MAN JESUS), and given him a name which is above every name:


Which makes sense, as the last Adam.

God will never humble Himself to wicked men and devils, but God's perfect human son did.

 

[Truther]

A mediator is one who mediates between two parties. The mediator process is made up of a threesome. Person A, Person B and the mediator Person C. So, Scripturally, Person A is man, Person B is God, and Person C is Jesus Christ.

This...

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Really means this?....

5 For there is one, 3 PERSON God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, THE FLESH OF THE 2ND PERSON;


I trow not.

 

[Enow]

There is 2.

God and a man, correct?....

If in regards to the Three Witnesses in Heaven as opposed to man as led by the Holy Spirit that testify to His death on the cross, hence your 2 witnesses, then that is why God's witness from Heaven is greater than man's witness by the Holy Ghost on earth because there are 3 Witnesses in Heaven that testify to the Son's ascension in Heaven.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

That is only testifying to which Person of the Godhead is the only Mediator. Some believers err, thinking they can pray to the Holy Spirit as if there is Another Mediator between God the Father & man when Jesus is the only God at that throne of grace because it is His job to give all prayers to the Father by Him, including the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father.

So Who can hear and answer prayers? God. Then read Who is answering prayers.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.... 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Who is the Savior when scripture both testify to God being the Savior and Jesus is the Savior too?

Acts 13:23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

1 Timothy 1:1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

Go ahead and do a word search at Bible Gateway for God Saviour and then Jesus Saviour and see what you find.

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: God Saviour