The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[charity]

 

[Eternally Grateful]

'For who maketh thee to differ from another?
and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?
now if thou didst receive it,
why dost thou glory,
as if thou hadst not received it?'
(1 Corinthians 4:7)

Hello @RogerDC,

Why are you being so hostile in your approach to @Eternally Grateful?

* I would like to consider a point you made to him, in which you said in reply#3941:- 'Scripture describes salvation as a "hope" in all least twenty verses in the NT, so your claim that you are already "saved" contradicts every one of those "hope" verses.'

* There are a number of Hebrew words translated 'Hope' in the Old Testament, but there is but one basic Greek word so translated in the New Testament. Hope in the New Testament is very often linked to a promise made: so that Hope looks to the fulfilment of a promise. ' Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen' (Hebrews 11:1).

* Our faith rests on the promises of God, therefore they are sure and certain. I have been promised life through His (Christ's) name. Therefore there is no element of doubt in my mind that I will receive it, for it rests on a promise that God has made: Whose promises are 'Yea' and 'Amen'; given by a God who is all powerful, and Who never lies. Yes! Salvation is also sure on that same principle, the believer having been 'sealed' with that Holy Spirit of promise.

'In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Ephesians 1:13)

* The Believer is told assuredly that '... ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.' (Co.l 3:3-4) . I believe this, it is my hope, and there is nothing unsure or uncertain about it.

* Death for the believer, by God's reckoning, is as a 'sleep': for the believer has the sure hope of resurrection life, in Christ Jesus his Lord and Saviour.

* I am trusting in God to keep His promises, made in Christ Jesus His Beloved Son.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Amen

Paul said ,In the hope of eternal life which God, who can not lie. Promised before time began


If I do not HAVE eternal
Life do I really have hope?

 

[FollowHim]

Well - you just claimed that you don't lie - then you follow it up with another LIE.

The idea that you wouldn't have the Bible in English if not for Protestantism is nonsense. There were MANY books of the Bible translated into English BEFORE the KJV. The Church was never against translating into other languages. This is an historically-bankrupt, anti-Catholic lie.
The Church forbade private translations because of the mess is was causing. There were several attempts to privately translate the Bible which ended up in heretical versions being created.

Do me a favor - stick to the facts - and you won't have to be accused of lying anymore . . .

William Tyndale William Tyndale - Wikipedia

In the uk Tyndale wanted the bible in english and was executed for his work.

He began translating the New Testament at this time, possibly in Wittenberg, completing it in 1525 with assistance from Observant friar William Roy.

Now the english translation had a profound cultural change to the UK. This is not a lie, but a fact of history.

Within four years if his death, four English translations of the Bible were published in England at the King's behest,[c] including Henry's official Great Bible. All were based on Tyndale's work.[42]

Theological views
Tyndale seems to have come out of the Lollard tradition, which was strong in Gloucestershire. Tyndale denounced the practice of prayer to saints.[43] He also rejected the Roman Catholic view that the Scriptures could only be read and interpreted by approved clergy, famously defying the Pope by crying, "I defie the Pope and all his lawes. If God spare my life, ere many yeares I wyl cause a boy that driveth the plough to know more of the Scripture, than he doust."

Whether he was executed for heresy or the bible, the effect was the same.
Now I am not interested in the arguments as to which is the truth or a lie, because these arguments often hang on perspective.
The truth is Tyndale was a focus of change, and openness. And this kind of openness was banned by the church, for centuries.
Galilao is one good example of this, when he was just making observations in the sky and sharing his discoveries.

God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Telling lies

It is odd in the internet age to be told it is a lie that the bible in english changed a lot of things, with its mass publication.
The church certainly could have done this by itself if it was interested, but clearly it was not.

In the church today, not the catholic church, there are some who hate people who say "the bible says" but rather "Alan Smith says"
where Alan Smith is their great teacher on a subject. I actually believe Jesus, that He will teach His people through the Holy Spirit when we apply Gods word to our lives. God bless you

 

[BreadOfLife]

Telling lies

It is odd in the internet age to be told it is a lie that the bible in english changed a lot of things, with its mass publication.
The church certainly could have done this by itself if it was interested, but clearly it was not.

In the church today, not the catholic church, there are some who hate people who say "the bible says" but rather "Alan Smith says"
where Alan Smith is their great teacher on a subject. I actually believe Jesus, that He will teach His people through the Holy Spirit when we apply Gods word to our lives. God bless you

It strikes me as BOTH hilarious and sad that you are so ignorant of history.

You speak of the "mass publication" of the bible in English as if the Church had been "holding back" for some reason.
Did it ever occur to you that before 1450 - ALL Bibles were handwritten and took YEARS to complete just ONE copy??

The first book ever printed on a printing press was the Gutenberg Bible (Latin translation). ALL of the Books that had been translated into English were also HANDWRITTEN, so, NO - they were not "mass published". NOTHING was back then.

Finally - I guess it also slipped your mind that the general public was about 85% illiterate - so a printed copy of the Bible in ANY language would have been useless for most.

For crying out loud - do your homework . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

William Tyndale William Tyndale - Wikipedia

In the uk Tyndale wanted the bible in english and was executed for his work.

He began translating the New Testament at this time, possibly in Wittenberg, completing it in 1525 with assistance from Observant friar William Roy.

Now the english translation had a profound cultural change to the UK. This is not a lie, but a fact of history.

Within four years if his death, four English translations of the Bible were published in England at the King's behest,[c] including Henry's official Great Bible. All were based on Tyndale's work.[42]

Theological views
Tyndale seems to have come out of the Lollard tradition, which was strong in Gloucestershire. Tyndale denounced the practice of prayer to saints.[43] He also rejected the Roman Catholic view that the Scriptures could only be read and interpreted by approved clergy, famously defying the Pope by crying, "I defie the Pope and all his lawes. If God spare my life, ere many yeares I wyl cause a boy that driveth the plough to know more of the Scripture, than he doust."

Whether he was executed for heresy or the bible, the effect was the same.
Now I am not interested in the arguments as to which is the truth or a lie, because these arguments often hang on perspective.
The truth is Tyndale was a focus of change, and openness. And this kind of openness was banned by the church, for centuries.
Galilao is one good example of this, when he was just making observations in the sky and sharing his discoveries.

God bless you

As I stated before - men like Tyndale weren't executed for translating the Bible. There were ALREADY versions translated into other languages.

They were executed for wrongly translating the bible into heretical versions.

 

[FollowHim]

As I stated before - men like Tyndale weren't executed for translating the Bible. There were ALREADY versions translated into other languages.

They were executed for wrongly translating the bible into heretical versions.

The funny thing in your mind that this makes things ok. The point of doing a translation is to enable people to read things for themselves.

I am interested in you wanting to defend this. Could you imagine this idea today killing someone who tweaked the bible in a way one group does not like, they should die. The best way to refute this is to create a better translation.

I also find it amusing, because the dispute about changing the mass from latin to native languages was resisted by many in the RCC, so why even try and defend this tendency. God bless you

 

[mailmandan]

Amen

Paul said ,In the hope of eternal life which God, who can not lie. Promised before time began

If I do not HAVE eternal
Life do I really have hope?

Amen! Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope, which is not a “cross your fingers” uncertain kind of hope, like I hope it doesn’t rain next week.

Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.

So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

 

[BreadOfLife]

The funny thing in your mind that this makes things ok. The point of doing a translation is to enable people to read things for themselves.

I am interested in you wanting to defend this. Could you imagine this idea today killing someone who tweaked the bible in a way one group does not like, they should die. The best way to refute this is to create a better translation.

I also find it amusing, because the dispute about changing the mass from latin to native languages was resisted by many in the RCC, so why even try and defend this tendency. God bless you

Ummmm, I believe I ALREADY explained to you why amateur translations of the Bible were discouraged - and eventually forbidden.
They were causing schisms because of the heresies they were creating by badly translating the Scriptures.

As for the Latin Mass and those who wanted to keep it as the Ordinary form instead of the vernacular - it is for the SAME reasons.
When Pius V issued his Papal Bull Quo Primum in 1570 - it was NOT because he wanted to confound or confuse anybody or to keep them in "the dark". He issued this Bull stating that the Mass should stay in Latin - "in perpetuity" because of Liturgical ABUSES that were happening at the time.

He said that the Tridentine Latin Mass should remain UNCHANGED. I fully understand WHY he did this - but I also understand WHY the people wanted the mass in the vernacular.

When the 2nd Vatican Council finally DID allow the mass in the vernacular - look what happened. Abuse after abuse after abuse.
Pius V had a point. Fortunately, when Pope John Paul II came - he put an end to a lot of these abuses and now we have a Church that is experiencing a liturgical revival.

So - instead of formulating your own revisionist versions of what happened within the Church - try doing your HOMEWORK to discover the truth about it.

 

[Marymog]

The funny thing in your mind that this makes things ok. The point of doing a translation is to enable people to read things for themselves.

I am interested in you wanting to defend this. Could you imagine this idea today killing someone who tweaked the bible in a way one group does not like, they should die. The best way to refute this is to create a better translation.

I also find it amusing, because the dispute about changing the mass from latin to native languages was resisted by many in the RCC, so why even try and defend this tendency. God bless you

Having a translation of the Bible interpreted into every language has never been held back by The Church. Preventing heretical translations has been the goal of The Church.

Historical Mary

PS....I don’t think @BreadOfLife has ever suggested it was “ok” to kill someone because they printed a heretical bible. Unless you can show me a post were he said that it was ok to kill someone for doing that??

 

[FollowHim]

Ummmm, I believe I ALREADY explained to you why amateur translations of the Bible were discouraged - and eventually forbidden.
They were causing schisms because of the heresies they were creating by badly translating the Scriptures.

As for the Latin Mass and those who wanted to keep it as the Ordinary form instead of the vernacular - it is for the SAME reasons.
When Pius V issued his Papal Bull Quo Primum in 1570 - it was NOT because he wanted to confound or confuse anybody or to keep them in "the dark". He issued this Bull stating that the Mass should stay in Latin - "in perpetuity" because of Liturgical ABUSES that were happening at the time.

He said that the Tridentine Latin Mass should remain UNCHANGED. I fully understand WHY he did this - but I also understand WHY the people wanted the mass in the vernacular.

When the 2nd Vatican Council finally DID allow the mass in the vernacular - look what happened. Abuse after abuse after abuse.
Pius V had a point. Fortunately, when Pope John Paul II came - he put an end to a lot of these abuses and now we have a Church that is experiencing a liturgical revival.

So - instead of formulating your own revisionist versions of what happened within the Church - try doing your HOMEWORK to discover the truth about it.

I am interested in your ability to defend the indefensible. I see Paul killing people because they preached heretical positions or did he rather just encourage the disciples to praise God and stay faithful to Him?

And that is where I stop. Whenever a church feels they have to kill people to maintain their existence, the Lord has left the building.

My point about the mass is simple, this is a massive organisation with its rules and emphasis, of which I do not recognise. As I said before I just love Jesus and follow Him. God bless you

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am interested in your ability to defend the indefensible. I see Paul killing people because they preached heretical positions or did he rather just encourage the disciples to praise God and stay faithful to Him?
And that is where I stop. Whenever a church feels they have to kill people to maintain their existence, the Lord has left the building.

My point about the mass is simple, this is a massive organisation with its rules and emphasis, of which I do not recognise. As I said before I just love Jesus and follow Him. God bless you

Once again - either you refuse to READ the posts - or you simply enjoy wallowing in your lies.

The Church did not kill anybody. Heretics were put to death by state governments and kingdoms. This is a fact of history.
This has already been explained by me and others here.

When you want to engage in a serious conversation instead of an historically-bankrupt one - let me know . . .

 

[Marymog]

I am interested in your ability to defend the indefensible. I see Paul killing people because they preached heretical positions or did he rather just encourage the disciples to praise God and stay faithful to Him?

And that is where I stop. Whenever a church feels they have to kill people to maintain their existence, the Lord has left the building.

My point about the mass is simple, this is a massive organisation with its rules and emphasis, of which I do not recognise. As I said before I just love Jesus and follow Him. God bless you

Do you believe that the elders of established churches (like the massive organization that The Catholic Church is) who labor in the word and doctrine are worthy of double honor?

 

[Marymog]

Whenever a church feels they have to kill people to maintain their existence, the Lord has left the building.

God bless you

What Church killed people?

 

[marksman]

No surprise . . .

No comment

 

[charity]

As I stated before - men like Tyndale weren't executed for translating the Bible. There were ALREADY versions translated into other languages.
They were executed for wrongly translating the bible into heretical versions.

Hello @BreadOfLife,

With respect, Tyndale was executed for translating the New Testament into English: and was working on the Old Testament translation when he was killed. His desire was to translate directly from the original languages, and not from the Latin.

He was not the first to translate the Bible into English: for Wycliffe had translated it by hand previously; but Tyndale had the advantage of the printing press. Miles Coverdale completed the task of translating the Bible in it's entirety into English, for which we should be eternally grateful.

On October 6, 1536, after nearly 17 months in prison, Tyndale was strangled and then burned at the stake. As he died, Tyndale prayed, "Lord, open the king of England's eyes." Three years later, Tyndale's prayer was answered when King Henry VIII sanctioned the printing of an authorized version of an English Bible, the Great Bible.

Praise God!

Tyndale's version was not heretical, simply in English. He was martyred.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[RogerDC]

You still dont get it do you,

Col_2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

you know this bit

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

but if you insist one the law go become an SDA and you can along with them be judged by it and die in your sin, if that is what you wish.

You still don't get it - Jesus fulfilled certain parts of Mosaic Law, but that doesn't mean the whole of Mosaic Law has been nullified. For example, the law of Moses forbids sex acts with animals - are you telling me bestiality is okay now? The Ten Commandments are also still valid, because the moral laws of Moses are eternal. Your moronic "no laws" doctrine means you have no morality.

 

[charity]

You still don't get it - Jesus fulfilled certain parts of Mosaic Law, but that doesn't mean the whole of Mosaic Law has been nullified. For example, the law of Moses forbids sex acts with animals - are you telling me bestiality is okay now? The Ten Commandments are also still valid, because the moral laws of Moses are eternal. Your moronic "no laws" doctrine means you have no morality.

With respect @RogerDC,

This is not appropriate. I suggest you consider your ways, and behave more like the Saviour you profess to know.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope, which is not a “cross your fingers” uncertain kind of hope, like I hope it doesn’t rain next week.

Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.

So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

Amen

Some want to offer us a false hope. That is what satan offers us.. Not God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

With respect @RogerDC,

This is not appropriate. I suggest you consider your ways, and behave more like the Saviour you profess to know.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you

Sadly this is why I cut off communications with him