The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[BloodBought 1953]

Wrought means forged and molded and fabricated and produced and manufactured and caused.

The phrase "wrought in God" is essentially "caused by God".

The Word of God says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

The ONLY persons that come to Christ are persons whose deed of coming to Christ is wrought in God, not one less person, not one more person.

Your free-willian philosophy of a person coming to Christ apart from God tacitly denies the Word of God.

“ NOBODY comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”

Check out the story of Lydia, “the seller of purple” in Acts....why would she be different from any other lost person? God “ opened her heart” to the reception of Paul’s Gospel , given to Paul by Jesus personally....

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Apostle Paul wrote "For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins" (Colossians 1:13-14).

Behold, "transferred" is Lord Jesus sets "the slave of sin" (John 8:34) free from the punishment for sin (Matthew 20:28); therefore the Word of God buys "the slave of sin" (John 8:34) to become "the slave of righteousness" (Romans 6:18).

Since Christ is the Righteousness of every disciple of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), then we disciples of Christ are slaves of Christ the Righteousness One because He bought us with His precious Blood (1 Corinthians 6:20).

Paul wrote "you have been bought with a price" (1 Corinthians 6:20).

When you wrote "Jesus didn't buy disciples", then, in effect, @CadyandZoe, you excluded yourself from the ransom that Jesus paid!

So Jesus didn't redeem his disciples, he purchased them? So how can you say he set them free?

 

[Kermos]

So Jesus didn't redeem his disciples, he purchased them? So how can you say he set them free?

"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" says Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:30).

CadyandZoe, you claim ability to do things of your own initiative, that is your free will, even by you just being set "free".

Master Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master" (John 13:16).

CadyandZoe, since you claim to be promiscuously "free", then you effectively claim to be greater then Master Jesus Christ.

"The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" says Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:28).

Christ's Blood shed on the cross is payment for the ransom that leads to Christ's disciples being bought unto slaves of Righteousness; moreover, the payment for the ransom is redemption of Christ's disciples.

We slaves of Righteousness are set free from the punishment for sin.

When you wrote "Jesus didn't buy disciples", then, in effect, @CadyandZoe, you excluded yourself from the ransom that Jesus paid!

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's Saving Purpose was to save sinners !

1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

When Christ came into the World by His Incarnation He had a Saving Mission and Purpose in coming, it was to save sinners, but not all sinners without exception, but a specific group of sinners, His People as announced from Heaven Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

He came to save specifically, sinners that are His People, or we can say His Sheep, or even His Church, but not all without exception.

All People/Sinners are not His People, His Sheep . His People are those He foreknew Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

And all People He did not foreknow, because He shall say to some Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Its the same word knew in Rom 11:2 except added the prefix prep pro which means I. before, or ever,

So its impossible for them in Matt 7:23 to have been of His People He foreknew in Rom 11:2, Matt 1:21 His people which He came to save !

In fact, the reason why so many people do not believe, die in unbelief in their sins Jn 8:24, because they were not of His Sheep, People that He came to save from their sins Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Now we must consider that the end for which Christ the Saviour came was most successful, TO SAVE SINNERS, not all without exception, but His People, and if by His Coming, they whom He came to save from their sins, are not all saved from their sins, then His end for which He came was not successful; Yes if all without exception of whom He came to seek and to save are not saved from the penalty/punishment, and power of their sins, He failed in His Coming !

 

[brightfame52]

Everybody went to hell before Jesus Christ died on the Cross and rose again. Then everyone after that all were justified.

Everyone since the day God poured out his wrath on the nation of Israel have been justified by the blood shed of Christ. Saving them from death, Satan, hell, grace the demons, even their sins.

The greatest sin is disbelief however you can not be saved to the kingdom of God without faith on the Lord Jesus Christ in this Life, his death, burial, and resurrection.

Jesus died for all people. There are many scriptures to support this. If it wasnt for the Jewish people we would never have had a messiah to begin with, thankfully God chosen Abraham to bring for a nation named Israel that had 12 tribes. And because of all these things we have the Bible that gives us knowledge in what it says about these things.

@brightfame52 i would agree with you there being a bride that was chosen by God that was made for Jesus to have before the destruction of Jerusalem came. However Jesus death, burial, and resurrection still recovered everything lost in the Garden. All Jewish and Gentiles alike to be saved by and through faith in the Gospel of Christ.

Is this how you view it or no?

I view it the way Im posting my view in this thread.

 

[Kermos]

“ NOBODY comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”

Check out the story of Lydia, “the seller of purple” in Acts....why would she be different from any other lost person? God “ opened her heart” to the reception of Paul’s Gospel , given to Paul by Jesus personally....

Awesome, praise Jesus, Lord and God!

That's an excellent mention of Acts 16:14.

Have you noticed that the encounter of Jesus with Paul on the road to Damascus does not include Jesus saying "Paul will you please choose to follow Me into the city to see if you want to do things that I do not know whether they will happen or not"?

In power and authority, Lord Jesus Christ says to Paul "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do" (Acts 9:5-6).

No questions, therein is Jesus' identification, Paul's sin revealed, command, and declaration of control borh current and future.

By persecuting the disciples of Christ, Paul was persecuting Christ Himself because Christ is one with His own disciples.

A person acting autonomously in free will is not a disciple of Christ for the Christ says "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

God bless you @BloodBought1953!

 

[Tong2020]

Everybody went to hell before Jesus Christ died on the Cross and rose again. Then everyone after that all were justified.

Who among the apostles taught that?

Tong
R4838

 

[Tong2020]

…………Jesus died for all people……..

What did Jesus accomplished by that?

Tong
R4839

 

[Kermos]

I view it the way Im posting my view in this thread.

You have been meticulously posting scripture revealing that Christ died for His own people and not for those for whom He did not die.

@MatthewG blindly asked that which you have already addressed.

"They were very astonished and said, 'Then who can be saved?' And looking at them Jesus said to them, 'With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible'" (Matthew 19:25-26).

Persons have no input about who will be saved from the wrath of God, so Christ did not die for persons who glory in their purported choosing of Jesus unto salvation, but He did die only for persons chosen by God as written in the Lambs Book of Life before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8).

God bless you brightfame52!

 

[Kermos]

<<>>

Of course God does. Nonetheless, we speak of Christ’s offering and not of the old testament offering by the high priest. Now, Christ’s offering is ever effective, and its effectiveness does not, in any way, shape, or form, depended on the people. That God accepted His offering speaks of its effectiveness. And so, accepted by God as it is, Christ effectively had made propitiation for the sins of the whole world. And that was an already done and finished matter.

Now, at this point, I would like mention that propitiation is not salvation unto eternal life. Also, that while Christ died for all men in that sense, Christ did not die for all men for salvation unto eternal life, but only for the people whom the Father had given to the Son to raise up in the last day, those whom God had foreknew, predestined, called, justified, glorified.

That’s right. The means is God’s, not man’s.



Well, as I said, I don’t seem to see any such invitation, or an offer for that matter.



<<<In the same way, we describe the phenomenon of salvation from our own point of view.>>>

“phenomenon of salvation”? That’s new to my hearing.

Going back, my point in that part of my post to which you are here responding to is that, God’s salvation is already been accomplished by Jesus Christ, about a couple of thousand years ago. And since then what He had accomplished is unfolding, and is being revealed in time.

Notice, Jesus’ commandment to the chosen apostles was to preach the gospel and also make disciples of all the nations. Now what is the gospel that the apostles preached? Is it not Jesus Christ ~ His person, life, death, and resurrection? The gospel is not about how to be saved, but about the salvation of God, that is come, Jesus Christ. As is any news that comes to people, we see some who believes and some who don’t. Those who believe, they are those whom Christ saved at the cross, by His death and resurrection. They will all be revealed in time, all from the time of Adam until the last day.

Tong
R4391

You wrote "accepted by God as it is, Christ effectively had made propitiation for the sins of the whole world" with respect to1 John 2:2.

The phrase "the whole world" occurs in one other place in the First Book of John, and the next paragraph shows the location.

@Tong2020, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?

@Tong2020, it appears you are in no season since you have not answered.

 

[MatthewG]

I view it the way Im posting my view in this thread.

Fair enough my brother.

 

[MatthewG]

What did Jesus accomplished by that?

Tong
R4839

God through Christ reconciled the world back unto himself friend. It allows all people’s sins to be forgiven and it allows people the free choice to accept Jesus Christ or not.

for the other question the thief on the cross went to the paradise part of Sheol. He did not go to heaven right away not everything had been fulfilled just yet.

 

[TEXBOW]

God through Christ reconciled the world back unto himself friend. It allows all people’s sins to be forgiven and it allows people the free choice to accept Jesus Christ or not.

for the other question the thief on the cross went to the paradise part of Sheol. He did not go to heaven right away not everything had been fulfilled just yet.

The thief joined David and the other O.T. Saints in Sheol. It is my understanding that Sheol is divided into two places, Paradise and Hades. (Lazurus & the poor man). I do not think he was there long. I think those in Paradise were taken to Heaven when Jesus ascended into Heaven.

 

[MatthewG]

The thief joined David and the other O.T. Saints in Sheol. It is my understanding that Sheol is divided into two places, Paradise and Hades. (Lazurus & the poor man). I do not think he was there long. I think those in Paradise were taken to Heaven when Jesus ascended into Heaven.

That’s the truth of the subject my friend thank you for sharing you revelation on the subject, Texbow.

Jesus also went there to and only preached to the people of Noah’s age that were never given the Law from my understanding found in either first or second letter of Peter.

Also in revelation all people had been set forth and judge by God and he’ll and death were thrown away, never to used again.

 

[CadyandZoe]

"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" says Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:30).

CadyandZoe, you claim ability to do things of your own initiative, that is your free will, even by you just being set "free".

Master Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master" (John 13:16).

CadyandZoe, since you claim to be promiscuously "free", then you effectively claim to be greater then Master Jesus Christ.

"The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" says Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:28).

Christ's Blood shed on the cross is payment for the ransom that leads to Christ's disciples being bought unto slaves of Righteousness; moreover, the payment for the ransom is redemption of Christ's disciples.

We slaves of Righteousness are set free from the punishment for sin.

When you wrote "Jesus didn't buy disciples", then, in effect, @CadyandZoe, you excluded yourself from the ransom that Jesus paid!

Are you set free or are you a slave? Which is it?

For some reason you seem to confuse buying a slave and setting one free. The passage in Romans, which speaks about being a "slave" of righteousness is better understood as "servant" of righteousness.

The difference is this. Jesus redeemed his disciples, who serve him freely, voluntarily, without coercion. Jesus didn't buy slaves, who serve him under compulsion. Paul argues elsewhere that we are no longer slaves, but sons, adopted into God's household.

 

[Tong2020]

God through Christ reconciled the world back unto himself friend. It allows all people’s sins to be forgiven and it allows people the free choice to accept Jesus Christ or not.

for the other question the thief on the cross went to the paradise part of Sheol. He did not go to heaven right away not everything had been fulfilled just yet.

What did you mean when you say “God through Christ reconciled the world back unto himself”?

<<<for the other question the thief on the cross went to the paradise part of Sheol. He did not go to heaven right away not everything had been fulfilled just yet.>>>

You said “Everybody went to hell before Jesus Christ died on the Cross and rose again. Then everyone after that all were justified.”

The question is “Who among the apostles taught that”?

Tong
R4840

 

[MatthewG]

Oh sorry man. It is God who enstates that. Not me.

 

[Kermos]

Are you set free or are you a slave? Which is it?

For some reason you seem to confuse buying a slave and setting one free. The passage in Romans, which speaks about being a "slave" of righteousness is better understood as "servant" of righteousness.

The difference is this. Jesus redeemed his disciples, who serve him freely, voluntarily, without coercion. Jesus didn't buy slaves, who serve him under compulsion. Paul argues elsewhere that we are no longer slaves, but sons, adopted into God's household.

The Greek word is ἐδουλώθητε
(edoulōthēte, Strong's #1402 douloó: to enslave, bring under subjection) in Romans 6:18 in the English phrase "slave of righteousness".

According to biblehub.com/greek/1402.htm, the definition for Strong's 1402 is:

Cognate: 1402 doulóō – enslave(passive, "become enslaved"), focusing on the status of being a bond-slave. In contrast to the other verb-form of the same root (1398/douleúō), 1402 (doulóō) stresses the results (effects) of enslavement. That is, what automatically goes with belonging to another. See 1401(doulos).
​

YOU LIE ABOUT THE PASSAGE IN ROMANS BEING "SERVANT" INSTEAD OF "SLAVE".

Where, @CadyandZoe, is it that "Paul argues elsewhere that we are no longer slaves, but sons, adopted into God's household" (your words)? You won't find nor produce Paul arguing that we, who are bought by Christ's precious Blood, are no longer slaves of righteousness.

The Apostle Paul wrote that person's will and person's work is the work of God in persons with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Paul's writing proves the deception of your writing of "Jesus redeemed his disciples, who serve him freely, voluntarily" being the precepts of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Paul wrote "you have been bought with a price" (1 Corinthians 6:20) about us disciples.

"Redemption" is the "payment for ransom", and a "payment" for something is to "buy" ("bought" past tense) that something.

"The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" says Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:28).

Christ's Blood shed on the cross is payment for the ransom that leads to Christ's disciples being bought unto slaves of Righteousness; moreover, the payment for the ransom is redemption of Christ's disciples.

We slaves of Righteousness are set free from the punishment for sin.

When you wrote "Jesus didn't buy disciples", then, in effect, @CadyandZoe, you excluded yourself from the ransom that Jesus paid!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Are you set free or are you a slave? Which is it?

For some reason you seem to confuse buying a slave and setting one free. The passage in Romans, which speaks about being a "slave" of righteousness is better understood as "servant" of righteousness.

The difference is this. Jesus redeemed his disciples, who serve him freely, voluntarily, without coercion. Jesus didn't buy slaves, who serve him under compulsion. Paul argues elsewhere that we are no longer slaves, but sons, adopted into God's household.

I am a “ Free Man in Christ”........ what does this “ free man” want to do with his Freedom? Become a Slave to God.....I keep trying to tell some of you guys and gals—- True Christianity is Wild, ain’t it?

 

[CadyandZoe]

I am a “ Free Man in Christ”........ what does this “ free man” want to do with his Freedom? Become a Slave to God.....I keep trying to tell some of you guys and gals—- True Christianity is Wild, ain’t it?

This isn't about what you want to do. The claim is made that the cross, somehow, purchased disciples.