The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Kermos]

No. I did not abandon context, and the words of Christ are categorical. But if you want context, kindly go back to John chapter 3 and read and study it in depth. God and Christ do not contradict themselves.

@Enoch111, I'm a little surprised that you responded since you never replied by quoting the question posed to you "@Enoch111, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?" In this post #2545 of this thread.

Now, back to the current matter. You continued to abandon Lord Jesus' context for the Christ inextricably, conjunctively ties the word "world" in John 3:14-18 to exclusively to the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

You cannot legitimately escape the Lord's context in John 3:16, yet it appears you try to blow it off with no explanation, but that is not how it works with salvation, @Enoch111, for Christ's words are more valuable than gold!

As is truthfully demonstrated in "Jesus the Christ constrains the meaning of the word "world" by His context in John 3:14-18 (post #2815)" in this thread, the word "world" in John 3:14-18 exclusively is the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

 

[quietthinker]

if atonement was unlimited, then everyone would be saved. If salvation was for everyone, again everyone would be saved. Universalism isnt Biblical.

there is another angle.

 

[quietthinker]

"Many are called, but few are chosen" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 22:14).

Hmmm, it appears, quietthinker, that you practice eisegesis.

ohhhh, so why would he call many but choose only a few?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

there is another angle.

i look forward to reading about it.

 

[quietthinker]

i look forward to reading about it.

The fact that people will be lost does not mean Jesus hasn't given his life for them. Consider the term 'given his life' ....let it roll around in your mouth, savour it, suck on it and see if 'come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and you will find rest.....' means immeasurably more than a God who selects only a few.

 

[Kermos]

ohhhh, so why would he call many but choose only a few?

Because Jesus the Lord says "Many are called, but few are chosen" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 22:14).

It sure sounds like you are taking exception to the Lord's words.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

The fact that people will be lost does not mean Jesus hasn't given his life for them. Consider the term 'given his life' ....let it roll around in your mouth, savour it, suck on it and see if 'come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and you will find rest.....' means immeasurably more than a God who selects only a few.

1. Jesus only died for the elect.
2. The elect are few.

i have found this will help you understand atonement.
Limited Atonement by R.C. Sproul from What Is Reformed Theology?

 

[Kermos]

You are the one evading the plain declarations of Christ. As for the difference it has already been explained by Him in John 3:18-21.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Enoch111, you concluded your post with this quote of Jesus, "he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:21).

The word "wrought" means forged, strong-armed, and manipulated, so a solid example is wrought iron.

Jesus is the Light, and the Light says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

A person "coming" to the "Light" is a deed.

Jesus says we believers deeds are "wrought in God".

A person "doing" the "Truth" is a deed.

Again, our deeds are "wrought in God".

Now, here, Lord Jesus constrains the population of people that comes to Jesus as exclusively persons whom God wrings forth the deeds/fruits.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

'come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and you will find rest.....' means immeasurably more than a God who selects only a few.

the majority of mankind, billions of people will end up in hell. Few means less than half, few means the odds arent in our favor.

 

[Kermos]

The fact that people will be lost does not mean Jesus hasn't given his life for them. Consider the term 'given his life' ....let it roll around in your mouth, savour it, suck on it and see if 'come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and you will find rest.....' means immeasurably more than a God who selects only a few.

@quietthinker, the "come" in your quotation of 'come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and you will find rest.....' is constrained by this quote of Jesus, "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

The word "wrought" means forged, strong-armed, and manipulated, so a solid example is wrought iron.

Jesus is the Light, and the Light says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

A person "coming" to the "Light" is a deed.

Jesus says we believers deeds are "wrought in God".

A person "doing" the "Truth" is a deed.

Again, our deeds are "wrought in God".

Now, here, Lord Jesus constrains the population of people that comes to Jesus as exclusively persons whom God wrings forth the deeds/fruits.

 

[quietthinker]

1. Jesus only died for the elect.
2. The elect are few.

i have found this will help you understand atonement.
Limited Atonement by R.C. Sproul from What Is Reformed Theology?

You assume I don't understand it....what can I say?
I would say you have not grasped the the overflowing generosity God has towards the children of Adam

 

[quietthinker]

the majority of mankind, billions of people will end up in hell. Few means less than half, few means the odds arent in our favor.

it seems to me you are in favour of the multitudes ending up in hell.

 

[quietthinker]

@quietthinker, the "come" in your quotation of 'come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and you will find rest.....' is constrained by this quote of Jesus, "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

The word "wrought" means forged, strong-armed, and manipulated, so a solid example is wrought iron.

Jesus is the Light, and the Light says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

A person "coming" to the "Light" is a deed.

Jesus says we believers deeds are "wrought in God".

A person "doing" the "Truth" is a deed.

Again, our deeds are "wrought in God".

Now, here, Lord Jesus constrains the population of people that comes to Jesus as exclusively persons whom God wrings forth the deeds/fruits.

I find your post a prattle Kermos. You make what is fundamentally simple, complex.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

it seems to me you are in favour of the multitudes ending up in hell.

on the contrary, i worry about anyone going to hell. But i’m a realist, i understand Biblical truth is absolute, just, and while anyone going to hell is a terrible thing, i understand that we get what we deserve. And when one person goes to hell, all of creation gives praise to God for being a just God.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You assume I don't understand it....what can I say?
I would say you have not grasped the the overflowing generosity God has towards the children of Adam

interesting. Where you see generosity, i see God as being just, righteous, and not letting any sin go unpunished. Its a terrible thing to fall into the hands of a living God.

 

[Kermos]

I find your post a prattle Kermos. You make what is fundamentally simple, complex.

So, @quietthinker, you find this Word of God "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) a prattle.

I find your post devoid of scripture, and that is a very dangerous place to be.

 

[quietthinker]

So, @quietthinker, you find this Word of God "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) a prattle.

I find your post devoid of scripture, and that is a very dangerous place to be.

lol.....when you call your words 'scripture' but apply the word 'prattle' to God's words, it is you who is in a dangerous place.

 

[Kermos]

lol.....when you call your words 'scripture' but apply the word 'prattle' to God's words, it is you who is in a dangerous place.

Oh, so now you disagree that "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) is the Word of God.

John 3:21 was in the post.

Definitions were in the post.

The Word of God "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) was in the post.

According to the Word of God, a person coming to Christ is exclusively by the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Wow, you "lol" (laughed) at the Word of God, and that is a very dangerous place to be.

Deceivers in sheeps clothing claim they come to Christ of their own initiative.

The Truth asks "why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right" (Luke 12:57).

Lord Jesus is right, so Lord Jesus is not even available to your own initiative.

As the Word of God shows, Christ died exclusively for the people that Christ causes to come to Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ didn't die for all without exception, its a serious mistake to say so, but He died for all whom He redeems from iniquity Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

And this will be preached by faithful ministers of the Gospel Titus 2:15

15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

He died for them that His death purifies unto Himself them, Vs 14

There's no such thing as Christ giving Himself for a person and it doesnt result in that person being purified unto Himself for His use and service !

 

[quietthinker]

Oh, so now you disagree that "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) is the Word of God.

John 3:21 was in the post.

Definitions were in the post.

The Word of God "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) was in the post.

According to the Word of God, a person coming to Christ is exclusively by the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Wow, you "lol" (laughed) at the Word of God, and that is a very dangerous place to be.

Deceivers in sheeps clothing claim they come to Christ of their own initiative.

The Truth asks "why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right" (Luke 12:57).

Lord Jesus is right, so Lord Jesus is not even available to your own initiative.

As the Word of God shows, Christ died exclusively for the people that Christ causes to come to Christ.

You are shortsighted Kermos. You do not see that you attributed the word 'prattle' to John 3:21 when in fact I did not attribute it to that text but you did. You attempted to put words in my mouth. See post #2836