The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[brightfame52]

To reconcile us to God !

Another stated purpose for the death of Christ, God's Son is to reconcile us [ those He died for] to God !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

All those Christ died for have been reconciled to God by His Death, it cant be made more plainer than what this scripture states.

And this reconciliation occurred while or when we were enemies, that is faithless.

You see, thats a major difference between those who are God's enemies by nature, the non elect, and those who are the elect who are God's enemies by nature, the elect are still reconciled to God and in His Favor.

The word reconciled is the greek word Katallasso and means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

to reconcile (those who are at variance)

return to favour with, be reconciled to one

to receive one into favour

So that, even while we are enemies by nature, all those Christ died for have been received into God's Favor.

However, this is not True for all those Christ did not for, instead of His Favor, they remain under God's wrath.. Jn 3:36


He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You see, that cannot be True of the elect while they are unbelievers and enemies. Because while in that state, they have been reconciled to God by Christ death.328

 

[brightfame52]

To obtain Eternal Redemption for us !

Another stated purpose for the death of Christ is shown here Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained or procured eternal redemption for us.

Note that its a Eternal Redemption, the word Eternal is aionios and means:

without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

without beginning

without end, never to cease, everlasting

And redemption is lutrosis:

a ransoming, redemption

deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

He has obtained or procured for His body, the Church a never to cease, without end deliverance from the penalty of their sins.

So they have the redemption with the forgiveness of sins through His blood Eph 1:7


7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

And we know all without exception have this Eternal Redemption obtained for them by Christ saying these words unto them:

Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

BTW- Redemption is its own application, not something one has to decide to accept or reject , but something God does or applies :

Lk 1:68

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Ps 111:9

9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.


God commands His redemption for His People, His Chosen in Christ. It is not a offer for them to accept or reject.

Isa 43:1

1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

In the redemption that God Himself does or applies, it Turns God's People from their sins Acts 3:26

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Thats the effect of redemption in addition to the forgiveness of sins, It Turns everyone who has been redeemed from their sins, as a evidence of having been set free.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

How could one forfeit his soul if they were never offered salvation/ eternal life? If you were born a reprobate, then how could you forfeit salvation, when God never intended for you to have it and therefore never offered it to you?
Furthermore if you were born reprobate, you could not be judged guilty for the biggest Sin, rejecting Christ, since there was never an offer, no were you capable of coming to Christ since God did nit draw you. The Bible says God draws all men to himself. It must be offerws to all and some reject it.
Furthermore, being born a reprobate would be your excuse, that God never offered you salvation. Romans 1 says man is without excuse given what has been revealed to Him in all of creation, His invisible attributes have clearly been seen in what has been made.
Calvin was a smart man, but he tried to package a theology that was flawed. TULIP is flawed.
One would have to be omniscient to package something like that.
Realistically, it is above our little minds to grasp.
God knows who we are better then we know ourselves. TULIP ... how simple, how neat, how cute
... how arrogant and high-minded.
What a bone head thing to do.

 

[theefaith]

All people

lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!

————————-
Faith is part of works!

Works is defined as something we choose to do, volition!

Faith is also works because you have to choose to believe! Jn 1:12 Jn 3:16 rom 10:9

And continue to believe, a perpetual state of believing. Matt 24:13 Jn 15:1-5


In grace works have merit

————


Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

All are redeemed

————

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[Curtis]

Another element of Truth that mitigates against the Myth of Christ having died for all men without exception, is God's accuracy in proportioning punishment to each individual as they deserve. Jesus says some will be beaten with many stripes, and some with few stripes as here Lk 12:45-48

45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Every man will be Judged and rewarded according to what their work were

Rom 2:5-6

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Rev 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

With this in Mind, Christ sufferings though invaluable because of His Splendid Being, nevertheless because of strict righteousness, His sufferings were proportioned to His Peoples Guilt, and this alone was the ground of it's sufficiency to save. The Lord Jesus Christ punishment was penal [ inflicted upon Him for the punishment of the sins of God's covenant chosen people Isa 53:8]

so His vicarious sufferings were proportioned to their guilt and so He suffered at the hands of impartial Justice what they [ Gods elect] in their own persons must otherwise have endured in the place of endless woe, and so His sufferings rendered His sacrifice sufficient for the eternal purpose intended in the covenant of Grace, the everlasting covenant..

Isa 53:5,8

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Not we might be healed, but we [The elect] are healed.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. A specific people..

Rom 8:32-33

32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who is us all ? vs 33

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

2 Cor 5:21

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Not one ounce of Christ blood was shed in vain, for everyone it was designed to save and bring to God , it accomplished the same, and all those who shall have their portion in the lake of fire, He did not shed one drop of blood for..

Scripture is crystal clear that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, but that propitiation of sins, is only applied to those who have faith and repentance.

Jesus in effect deposited enough atonement in the bank to pay for the sins of everyone, but only those with faith and repentance can write a check on His account, and cash the check.

 

[Curtis]

It couldnt be made more plainer, they which were reconciled by His death, shall be saved by His Life. Since all wont be saved by His Life, He didn't die for all without exception !

A proof text out of context is a pretext.

Romans 10:8-13 tells exactly how to be saved, which is by faith and confession - for with the heart, we BELIEVE unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made UNTO SALVATION. For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be SAVRD.

And then it says just HOW we get faith, and it’s by HEARING THE WORD OF GOD Romans 10:17.

Having faith is available for everyone who hears the word of God preached, so they can confess with their mouth the faith in their heart AND BE SAVED.

Anyone can be a WHOSOEVER.

Or they can resist the Holy Spirit and not be one.

 

[brightfame52]

more on redemption !

These scriptures have been clear that Christ death was not merely to make redemption[salvation] possible, but to actually redeem them He died for, for God's purpose cannot fail as per Job 42:2

2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

2 “I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.[NKJV]

2"I know that you can do all things,
and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.[ESV]

And Isa 46:10

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Then everyone Christ died for must be redeemed, and it is a scriptural fact that all without exception are not eternally redeemed, so then He did not die for everyone without exception lest His purpose failed, or yet will everyone be redeemed, which there is no scriptural proof of, unless you wrest scripture to your destruction as the universalist do.

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture is crystal clear that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, but that propitiation of sins, is only applied to those who have faith and repentance.

Jesus in effect deposited enough atonement in the bank to pay for the sins of everyone, but only those with faith and repentance can write a check on His account, and cash the check.

This is error as I have been proving from scripture !

 

[brightfame52]

A proof text out of context is a pretext.

Romans 10:8-13 tells exactly how to be saved, which is by faith and confession - for with the heart, we BELIEVE unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made UNTO SALVATION. For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be SAVRD.

And then it says just HOW we get faith, and it’s by HEARING THE WORD OF GOD Romans 10:17.

Having faith is available for everyone who hears the word of God preached, so they can confess with their mouth the faith in their heart AND BE SAVED.

Anyone can be a WHOSOEVER.

Or they can resist the Holy Spirit and not be one.

You evaded the Truth, way to go !

 

[theefaith]

Scripture is crystal clear that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, but that propitiation of sins, is only applied to those who have faith and repentance.

Jesus in effect deposited enough atonement in the bank to pay for the sins of everyone, but only those with faith and repentance can write a check on His account, and cash the check.

that’s better
But you’re “faith alone” check will bounce
Only a faith and sacraments check is good in the bank of heaven to gain grace from the infinite merits of Christ! Jn 1:16
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 ez 36:25-27

 

[Eternally Grateful]

that’s better
But you’re “faith alone” check will bounce
Only a faith and sacraments check is good in the bank of heaven to gain grace from the infinite merits of Christ! Jn 1:16
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 ez 36:25-27

THats like Going to Jesus and saying lord lord did we not do all these sacraments in your name

the problem is, Jesus will say depart from me, for he never knew you

 

[Curtis]

that’s better
But you’re “faith alone” check will bounce
Only a faith and sacraments check is good in the bank of heaven to gain grace from the infinite merits of Christ! Jn 1:16
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 ez 36:25-27

Peter the supposed pope made not one reference to Catholicism or Catholic terms or doctrines in his writings. No rosary, catechism sacraments, Eucharist, confirmation, were ever mentioned at all by him.

But the apostle Paul DID tell your Roman sect in Romans 10:8-13, how to be SAVED, and he also didn’t use any RC terms, ceremonies, catechism, confirmation, sacraments, or infant baptism - all of those are conspicuously absent in Paul’s teaching on how to be saved.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


There’s no catechism, sacraments, baptism, Eucharist, or confirmation in Paul’s teaching to the RC church, on how to saved.

 

[theefaith]

Peter the supposed pope made not one reference to Catholicism or Catholic terms or doctrines in his writings. No rosary, catechism sacraments, Eucharist, confirmation, were ever mentioned at all by him.

But the apostle Paul DID tell your Roman sect in Romans 10:8-13, how to be SAVED, and he also didn’t use any RC terms, ceremonies, catechism, confirmation, sacraments, or infant baptism - all of those are conspicuously absent in Paul’s teaching on how to be saved.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


There’s no catechism, sacraments, baptism, Eucharist, or confirmation in Paul’s teaching to the RC church, on how to saved.

You forgot Mary and purgatory and indulgences but you do get extra credit for the rosary mention

here we go again, another fundamentalist ignorant of the church and church history

one thing at a time please

infant baptism

acts 2:38-39
And this promise (sacred oath made by God) or sacrament
Ez 36:25-27

oh that’s peter btw

next issue you’re choice I’m game

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You forgot Mary and purgatory and indulgences but you do get extra credit for the rosary mention

here we go again, another fundamentalist ignorant of the church and church history

one thing at a time please

infant baptism

acts 2:38-39
And this promise (sacred oath made by God) or sacrament
Ez 36:25-27

oh that’s peter btw

next issue you’re choice I’m game

This just goes to make a point

if I was going to believe in a works based Gospel, I would be Catholic

1. they have the most works, which means many ways
2. They have history
3. If all else fails, they have purgatory.

prety much guaranteed heaven. No matter how you act.

 

[theefaith]

This just goes to make a point

if I was going to believe in a works based Gospel, I would be Catholic

1. they have the most works, which means many ways
2. They have history
3. If all else fails, they have purgatory.

prety much guaranteed heaven. No matter how you act.

not biblical as usual

 

[theefaith]

This just goes to make a point

if I was going to believe in a works based Gospel, I would be Catholic

1. they have the most works, which means many ways
2. They have history
3. If all else fails, they have purgatory.

prety much guaranteed heaven. No matter how you act.

do you pray?
Fast? Alms? Do penance?
Are not these works

 

[Curtis]

You forgot Mary and purgatory and indulgences but you do get extra credit for the rosary mention

here we go again, another fundamentalist ignorant of the church and church history

one thing at a time please

infant baptism

acts 2:38-39
And this promise (sacred oath made by God) or sacrament
Ez 36:25-27

oh that’s peter btw

next issue you’re choice I’m game

The Bible says 1) believe in Jesus 2) repent of sins 3) be baptized.

Baptism is not for infants, who have no belief, and can’t repent.

 

[theefaith]

The Bible says 1) believe in Jesus 2) repent of sins 3) be baptized.

Baptism is not for infants, who have no belief, and can’t repent.

If it’s not possible then its not required but baptism is required jn 3:5
Acts 2:38-39 this promise or sacred oath aka a sacrament is to your children
The promise made in ez 36:25-27

 

[Curtis]

If it’s not possible then its not required but baptism is required jn 3:5
Acts 2:38-39 this promise or sacred oath aka a sacrament is to your children
The promise made in ez 36:25-27

It’s clearly for those who believe and repent.

If you find an infant confessing belief and repenting of sin, then by all means baptize them.

 

[theefaith]

It’s clearly for those who believe and repent.

If you find an infant confessing belief and repenting of sin, then by all means baptize them.

Acts 16:15 entire household
It does not say except infants
And it say nowhere does not baptize infants
Acts 2:39 says explicitly this promise of for your children
Spiritual blindness of a fundamentalist