The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Reggie Belafonte]

Again, IF Jesus died for all, then universalism would be correct doctrine.

Given there is a condition to be saved that the majority of human beings do not meet, it is absurd to say he died for all.

Wrong.
Jesus died for all Man, only one has to pick it up, such is the nature of free will that God gave us.

Jesus did not die for in regards they who do not pick up, but it's their for them all, it's up to them to pick up. it's a free gift that's before everyone and it's not denied to anyone to pick up ever. such is free will on our part and only Man has free will.

 

[Kermos]

'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,
but have eternal life.'
(Joh 3:14-15)

Hello @Kermos,

The reference in Numbers is Numbers 21:7-9.

'Therefore the people came to Moses, and said,
.. 'We have sinned,
.... for we have spoken against the LORD,
...... and against thee;
........ pray unto the LORD,
.......... that He take away the serpents from us.'
And Moses prayed for the people.
And the LORD said unto Moses,
.. 'Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole:
.... and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, '
...... when he looketh upon it, shall live.'
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole,
and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man,
when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.'
(Num 21:7-9)

* It is interesting to see the follow up to that story, in 2 Kings 18:3-5a:-

'And he (Hezekiah) did that which was right in the sight of the LORD,
according to all that David his father did.
He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves,
and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made:
for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it:
and he called it Nehushtan. (ie., copper serpent of the desert)
He trusted in the LORD God of Israel;
so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah,
nor any that were before him.'

* 'Looking' in Numbers 21, was the evidence that those bitten believed God, so in that sense the comparison between John 3 and Numbers 21 drawn by our Lord is intended to convey the same truth. 'That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Regardless of what you are trying to say, as this post shows:

• the word "world" in John 3:16 includes only persons in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6) and persons yet to be in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6).
• belief in Jesus is the work of God not man (John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10).

 

[charity]

Regardless of what you are trying to say, as this post shows:

• the word "world" in John 3:16 includes only persons in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6) and persons yet to be in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6).
• belief in Jesus is the work of God not man (John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10).

'For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in Him
should not perish, but have everlasting life.'
(Joh 3:16)

Hello @Kermos,

With respect, there is nothing in John 3:16 or its context to suggest that what you say concerning the word 'world' is true. It refers to the inhabited world, and says that 'whosoever' believeth in Him (the Lord Jesus Christ) shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

* You have referred to two verses, which we should look at now:-

'Then said they unto Him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God,
that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.'
(Joh 6:28-29)

* This verse tells us what God requires of us. It is that we should believe on Him (the Lord Jesus Christ) Whom He has sent.

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Eph 2:8-10)

* This was spoken to believers, (saints and faithful - Eph. 1:1, members of the Church which is His [Christ's] Body), and affirms that they were indeed saved by Grace, through faith in the redeeming work of the Lord Jesus Christ. That salvation is a gift of God, not by works, lest any man should boast. We are indeed His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.

* Whosoever will may come, but not all will.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[brightfame52]

God the Son and Spirit in the Counsel

As we have stated that God the Father is the Primary Divine Being who Purposed victorious Salvation or Redemption, Now we see that God the Son, the Word made Flesh [Jn 1:1,14] is the Primary Being who Victoriously accomplished Salvation or the Atonement via His Cross. For He willingly took on the Role of Mediator [1Tim 2:5;Phil 2:6-8; 2 Cor 8:9]

Now God the Spirit is the Primary Being who applies victorious redemption. He through His renewing work of the New Birth, convicts the elect world of sin, righteousness and Judgment Jn 16:7-11; 2 Thess 2:13. He shall bring each elect vessel of mercy to belief in the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus. He applies or gives Life unto them Jn 6:63; Jn 3:3-8, and He is given as a pledge of their inheritance Eph 1:14;4:30, and so concurs with the Father and the Son in their distinctive roles and the objects of their Eternal Love. It would be remiss if I did not mention His involvement with the Lord's Birth Matt 1:18;Lk 1:35, His death or offering of Himself Heb 9:14; and His resurrection 1 Pet 3:18; along with His Ministry Lk 4:14

So Salvation is made Certain to All for Whom Christ died, by the Work of the Spirit, this is victorious redemption or salvation..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your "lol" was most certainly about "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

This Word of God is central to the post about which you wrote"lol".

A Christian does not write "lol" about the Word of God.

Your a true fatalist alright. And I leave you to your folly

when you start telling people what they meant you lose any semblance of respectability

I leave you to your fatalism.

 

[Wrangler]

Wrong.
Jesus died for all Man, only one has to pick it up, such is the nature of free will that God gave us.

I am right. The ‘only’ is the dead give away to your contradictory statements.

I certainly agree that EXCEPT FOR ALL THE EXCEPTIONS, THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS. But if you examine it, you will realize it is just a complicated way to say there are exceptions while appearing to say the opposite.

 

[Kermos]

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

'For God so loved the world,
that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in Him
should not perish, but have everlasting life.'
(Joh 3:16)

Hello @Kermos,

With respect, there is nothing in John 3:16 or its context to suggest that what you say concerning the word 'world' is true. It refers to the inhabited world, and says that 'whosoever' believeth in Him (the Lord Jesus Christ) shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Hello @charity,

Look at the first word of Lord Jesus' words "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" in the verse of John 3:16.

Do you see the word "for"? That word "for" represents a conjunction from the Greek.

As a conjunction, the word "for" inextricably ties the clause preceding the word "for" which is John 3:14-15 with the clause subsequent the word "for" which is John 3:16.

Based on King Jesus' words and the context He establishes, John 3:14-16 are a cohesive declaration.

Just as this post in this thread shows in context, the word "world" in John 3:16 includes only persons in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6) and persons yet to be in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6).

That "whosoever" comes from the Greek word "pas" meaning "all" and "every", and this word "pas" does not convey ability to choose to believe in Jesus.

* You have referred to two verses, which we should look at now:-

'Then said they unto Him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God,
that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.'
(Joh 6:28-29)

* This verse tells us what God requires of us. It is that we should believe on Him (the Lord Jesus Christ) Whom He has sent.

Lord Jesus removed of the works of man brought up by the people recorded in John 6:28 in His answer.

The Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The Word establishes that "the work of God" (John 6:29) is unequivocally equal to the complete finished package of "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The Word of God assigns none to man of "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

This Word of God tells us that belief in Jesus is the work of God not man (John 6:29).

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Eph 2:8-10)

* This was spoken to believers, (saints and faithful - Eph. 1:1, members of the Church which is His [Christ's] Body), and affirms that they were indeed saved by Grace, through faith in the redeeming work of the Lord Jesus Christ. That salvation is a gift of God, not by works, lest any man should boast. We are indeed His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.

* Whosoever will may come, but not all will.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The Apostle Paul wrote "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10) to believers.

Behold, Paul unequivocally stated faith/belief is "His work" in "we" believers and that faith/belief" is "not of yourselves".

This puts Paul in accord with Jesus Who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

You wrote "Whosoever will may come".

Lord Jesus, the Light of men (John 1:4) says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

This means that whosoever comes to Jesus the Light, that deed of the whosoever is wrought in God not by the will of man (John 1:12-13) but truly WROUGHT IN GOD (John 3:21).

 

[Kermos]

Your a true fatalist alright. And I leave you to your folly

when you start telling people what they meant you lose any semblance of respectability

I leave you to your fatalism.

The fatalist does not believe the Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) for the fatalist rejects the Word when the fatalist says that the fatalist has the autonomous power to direct his or her belief at Jesus.

The fatalist does not believe the Word of God "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) for the fatalist rejects the Word when the fatalist says that the fatalist has the autonomous ability to come to Jesus.

The fatalist does not believe the Word of God "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25) for the fatalist rejects the Word when the fatalist says that the fatalist has the ability to control repentance (thinking differently afterward).

The fatalist embraces death not life.

I know the Word of God is Truth (John 14:6) including His recorded words in John 6:29, John 3:21, and Matthew 11:25.

I know the Word of God is Life (John 14:6) including His recorded words in John 6:29, John 3:21, and Matthew 11:25.

I believe in the Word of God.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I am right. The ‘only’ is the dead give away to your contradictory statements.

I certainly agree that EXCEPT FOR ALL THE EXCEPTIONS, THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS. But if you examine it, you will realize it is just a complicated way to say there are exceptions while appearing to say the opposite.

No. one must abide in Christ Jesus. it's that simple, the gift is their only you have to pick it up.
Yes he died for all Man but free will is about that you have to it pick up. so it's their for all.
Remember it's their for all, it's given freely, it's not bestowed upon Man regardless, as the Satanist will have one tempted, such a thing is clearly devoid.
Such people make claims that they are saved through the act it's self. so they have not been changed themselves at all, such is of the carnal mind as such a one is clearly playing that one need not abide in the Vine.
So even the Devil himself is free on such an account to run loose from the Vine.
Remember the ones who will say Lord Lord and Jesus never knew them ? No such only abide in their own self righteousness religion just like the Jews who killed Jesus.

Did them Jews who wanted to do all that they did to Jesus do such for, so The free gift to be given to them ? their is a free gift to be taken their, or stolen ? yet disregard the Vine ? that's why Jesus said such I am the way, and all such do you understand all such that Jesus said ? because if one does not then one maybe ignorant of the facts of the gift.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for our sins according to scripture !

1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This means old testament types serve as an enlightenment on the extent and efficacy of Christ atoning death.

Remember what Paul wrote 1 Tim 3:16411

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correctionn, for instruction in righteousness:

We will be looking at from scripture the doctrine of atonement.

Lets look at Noah's Ark, a type of Christ. 1 Pet 3:20-21

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


No doubt this is a clear and unmistakable reference to Noah and the Ark passing through the judgmental flood in connection with the atoning death and justifying resurrection of Jesus Christ. The pattern of the Ark was given to Noah in minute detail by the Sovereign LORD (Gen. 6:14-16). Now the question is, was the ark adequate in size to allow for all who were living on the earth at that time? We all surely know the answer to that.

It was not God's purpose to save all of Mankind in the Ark, but only Noah and his family, and seeing there is no negligible quantity in The LORD, all the room and sufficiency sovereignly fitted in the ark for flood survival was fully put to use. Noah was "a preacher of righteousness," and while the ark was "a preparing," Noah preached Christ by emblem and sermon; for to preach righteousness is to preach Christ, for He is the believer’s justifying righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor.5:21).

No doubt during this long period of one hundred and twenty years of Ark building, Noah admonished others as he was warned of God (Heb 11:7). However, only seven believed his report and they were of his own house (Gen 7:1). Then God brought judgment upon the world of the ungodly and they perished in the flood (2 Pet 2:5). The Noachian household is a type of the household of God (Eph 2:19), and Christ, the anti type of the Ark (Acts 4:12) and Head "over His own house" (Heb. 3:6), has made adequate room for His family and none else. Christ is the Sovereign who having eternally loved His progeny, He made room for them and them alone in ark of His mercy and grace. The Ark as a type was not given to us in abbreviated fashion, but in minute thoroughness, and every detail points to Christ.

Atonement sufficiency is founded in God’s forelove, and Christ loves only those who were given to Him by the Father in the covenant of redemption (Jer 31:3 ; John 13:1 , 17:6 ; Rom. 8:37). In the redemptive design there is no such thing as uncovenanted love, and hence no universal atonement sufficiency.

The Ark was a divine arrangement made before the waters of judgment fell from heaven, and in building the Ark, Noah followed the Divine specifications with exactitude. "Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him,’ so did he" (Gen. 6:22). There was not one extra cubic inch in the completion of the Ark, nor was there any wasted space. The sufficiency of the Ark was according to God’s purpose, and His elective purpose was to save only eight souls from the flood (1 Pet 3:20).

In like manner, Jesus Christ was furnished by God before the foundation of the world to deliver His people from the storm of judgment of the wrath to come (1 Pet 1:20; 1 Thess 1:10). Christ’s mission to this earth, as was the Ark, was according in every detail to the necessity of His people, and not one thing wrought by the atoning death of Christ was extended beyond those for whom He died. The sufficiency and efficiency of Christ’s offering was eternally concluded to the elect of God, and there was no redemptive sufficiency for the rest. The purpose of atoning sufficiency must be determined by its achievement, and it has none beyond "the Church of God, and the sheep of His hand." (Acts 20:28; Ps 95:7).

This Type is especially instructive since The Lord compares the time of His return with that of the days of Noah, Matt 24:37-38

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

 

[Episkopos]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:8

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

Unless you understand the dual nature of the truth you will be forced to make carnal assertions about the bible that are only half true.
Jesus indeed died because of the sins of the whole world. But He was resurrected only for those who would enter into Him.

Is it, for God so loved the church that He gave His only Son? No. It's the whole world.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim. 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The myth is that with our very tiny brains we are able to limit the truth and to limit the wonders of God. Jesus Christ came to save the whole world. Nobody can dispense salvation but God Himself. Jesus is the Saviour of ALL men, but especially those who believe.

One must understand the difference between death and life. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world but He was raised for the justification of those who would partake of His resurrection life.

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (Rom. 4:25)

Was Jesus raised for the justification of all men? No. He was only raised for those who walk in His victory by the power of the Spirit which defeats sin, the flesh and the devil. By grace we overcome just as Jesus did.

 

[charity]

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

Hello @charity,

Look at the first word of Lord Jesus' words "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" in the verse of John 3:16.

Do you see the word "for"? That word "for" represents a conjunction from the Greek.

As a conjunction, the word "for" inextricably ties the clause preceding the word "for" which is John 3:14-15 with the clause subsequent the word "for" which is John 3:16.

Based on King Jesus' words and the context He establishes, John 3:14-16 are a cohesive declaration.

Just as this post in this thread shows in context, the word "world" in John 3:16 includes only persons in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6) and persons yet to be in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6).

That "whosoever" comes from the Greek word "pas" meaning "all" and "every", and this word "pas" does not convey ability to choose to believe in Jesus.

Lord Jesus removed of the works of man brought up by the people recorded in John 6:28 in His answer.

The Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The Word establishes that "the work of God" (John 6:29) is unequivocally equal to the complete finished package of "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The Word of God assigns none to man of "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

This Word of God tells us that belief in Jesus is the work of God not man (John 6:29).

The Apostle Paul wrote "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10) to believers.

Behold, Paul unequivocally stated faith/belief is "His work" in "we" believers and that faith/belief" is "not of yourselves".

This puts Paul in accord with Jesus Who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

You wrote "Whosoever will may come".

Lord Jesus, the Light of men (John 1:4) says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

This means that whosoever comes to Jesus the Light, that deed of the whosoever is wrought in God not by the will of man (John 1:12-13) but truly WROUGHT IN GOD (John 3:21).

Hello @Kermos,

I thank you for your response and the manner in which it was delivered. Salvation is a gift of God bestowed on those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. I appreciate your use of context in relation to John 3:16, but it makes no difference to the use of the words 'whosoever believeth'.

'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world;
but that the world through Him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because He hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.'
(Joh 3:14-18)

* I did say 'whosoever will', instead of 'whosoever believeth', and I thank you for pointing out my error, it just shows me the influence that the hymns we sing have upon us, and how careful we must be to question all such.

The hymn lyric is, 'Whosoever will may come'.
The question must be, 'Come to Whom? and 'How?'
The answer being:- To the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, through the Lord Jesus Christ.
​

Thank you, Kermos.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Wrangler]

No. one must abide in Christ Jesus. it's that simple,

Right, a condition that all do not meet.

It is accurate to say Jesus OFFERS salvation to all. It is inaccurate to say Jesus saves all, period. There are terms and conditions that most do not meet.

 

[charity]

Right, a condition that all do not meet.

It is accurate to say Jesus OFFERS salvation to all. It is inaccurate to say Jesus saves all, period. There are terms and conditions that most do not meet.

Hi @Wrangler,

There is one condition: - believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Wrangler]

@charity, thank you. One condition is not unconditional. Why is this so hard for some?

I use the word faith, which my pastor taught = BELIEF + ACTION, to comply with Matthew 7:21. But I don't mean to quibble)

 

[charity]

@charity, thank you. One condition is not unconditional. Why is this so hard for some?

I use the word faith, which my pastor taught = BELIEF + ACTION, to comply with Matthew 7:21. But I don't mean to quibble)

Love to you in Christ Jesus our Beloved Lord, @Wrangler.

Chris

 

[brightfame52]

Unless you understand the dual nature of the truth you will be forced to make carnal assertions about the bible that are only half true.
Jesus indeed died because of the sins of the whole world. But He was resurrected only for those who would enter into Him.

Is it, for God so loved the church that He gave His only Son? No. It's the whole world.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim. 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The myth is that with our very tiny brains we are able to limit the truth and to limit the wonders of God. Jesus Christ came to save the whole world. Nobody can dispense salvation but God Himself. Jesus is the Saviour of ALL men, but especially those who believe.

One must understand the difference between death and life. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world but He was raised for the justification of those who would partake of His resurrection life.

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (Rom. 4:25)

Was Jesus raised for the justification of all men? No. He was only raised for those who walk in His victory by the power of the Spirit which defeats sin, the flesh and the devil. By grace we overcome just as Jesus did.

This is a good thread for you to read friend.

 

[Kermos]

Unless you understand the dual nature of the truth you will be forced to make carnal assertions about the bible that are only half true.

Jesus indeed died because of the sins of the whole world. But He was resurrected only for those who would enter into Him.

Is it, for God so loved the church that He gave His only Son? No. It's the whole world.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim. 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The myth is that with our very tiny brains we are able to limit the truth and to limit the wonders of God. Jesus Christ came to save the whole world. Nobody can dispense salvation but God Himself. Jesus is the Saviour of ALL men, but especially those who believe.

One must understand the difference between death and life. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world but He was raised for the justification of those who would partake of His resurrection life.

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (Rom. 4:25)

Was Jesus raised for the justification of all men? No. He was only raised for those who walk in His victory by the power of the Spirit which defeats sin, the flesh and the devil. By grace we overcome just as Jesus did.

Since you brought up "the whole world" while trying to apply Christ's atonement to everyone everywhere in 1 John 2:2, then you convey that "the whole world" automatically means everyone everywhere.

The Apostle John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world" (1 John 2:2).

The Apostle John also wrote "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

These two of "the whole world" occur in the same book, First John.

@Episkopos, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?

 

[Kermos]

Hello @Kermos,

I thank you for your response and the manner in which it was delivered. Salvation is a gift of God bestowed on those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul declared salvation is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Paul declared grace is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Paul declared belief (faith) is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Let's just make an adjustment to your final sentence there, "Faith is a gift of God bestowed on those who are saved by the Lord Jesus Christ".

I appreciate your use of context in relation to John 3:16, but it makes no difference to the use of the words 'whosoever believeth'.

'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world;
but that the world through Him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because He hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.'
(Joh 3:14-18)

* I did say 'whosoever will', instead of 'whosoever believeth', and I thank you for pointing out my error, it just shows me the influence that the hymns we sing have upon us, and how careful we must be to question all such.
The hymn lyric is, 'Whosoever will may come'.
The question must be, 'Come to Whom? and 'How?'
The answer being:- To the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you, Kermos.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It seems to me that you combined two issues into a single issue when you wrote "context in relation to John 3:16, but it makes no difference to the use of the words 'whosoever believeth'".

I'm separating them for clarity:

1. Just as this post in this thread shows in context, the word "world" in John 3:16 includes only persons in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6) and persons yet to be in the hope of eternal Life (John 14:6).
2. The Word of God tells us that belief in Jesus is the work of God not man (John 6:29).

Based on number 2, this means that every "believeth" in John 3:14-18 is entirely controlled by God as well as man is entirely impotent with regard to controling every "believeth" in John 3:14-18.

Based on number 1, this means that Jesus did NOT say that He died for all men in John 3:16.

 

[Wrangler]

do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?

A modern translation might light your path: 1 John 5:19
The Voice

19 Have confidence in the fact that we belong to God, but also know that the world around us is in the grips of the evil one.

Yes, I agree that while I (we) belong to God, the fallen world is in the grips of the evil one.