1 Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
deeds of sin as Jn 1:5
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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1 Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
deeds of sin as Jn 1:5
Particular Redemption !
Even though I know many cannot and will not receive this Truth, because they believe the lie that Christ died for all men, making all men without exception redeemable, nevertheless Redemption in Christ is limited to a Chosen People Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Now who are the we Paul is Identifying Himself with ? Its the Chosen of God Eph 1:3-4
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
That this Redemption God provides is for only for a Elect People is seen in the OT Scriptures, which gives a Divine Command Ps 130:7-8
7 Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
This is the Redemption the old Saint referred to here Lk 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
This is speaking of Jesus Christ, the Head of His Body the Church Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Compare this scripture with Ps 130:8
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
I know many will reject this clear Truth ! And Yes, this means Israel of Ps 130:7-8 is the Church of Titus 2:14 !
Even though I know many cannot and will not receive this Truth, because they believe the lie that Christ died for all men, making all men without exception redeemable, nevertheless Redemption in Christ is limited to a Chosen People Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Now who are the we Paul is Identifying Himself with ? Its the Chosen of God Eph 1:3-4
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
That this Redemption God provides is for only for a Elect People is seen in the OT Scriptures, which gives a Divine Command Ps 130:7-8
7 Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
This is the Redemption the old Saint referred to here Lk 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
This is speaking of Jesus Christ, the Head of His Body the Church Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Compare this scripture with Ps 130:8
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
I know many will reject this clear Truth ! And Yes, this means Israel of Ps 130:7-8 is the Church of Titus 2:14 !
The Greek of "ὁ κόσμος ὅλος ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ κεῖται" (1 John 5:19) accurately translates to the English of "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
Your assertion about 1 John 5:19 is deception.
Twice I answered your questions without you answering the question I presented to you first, so I would appreciate an answer from you to this question posed to you multiple times:
@theefaith, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?
romans 5 is final!
rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
you’re full of beans
it refers to nothing as you want it to refer to
we are in this world and cannot do anything about it
The question I asked you has two components that you seem to be confusing.
First component:
I did not write "in this world" as you just wrote.
I referenced you being part "of the world" in the question that I presented to you.
I am talking about you being part of a group specifically the group called "the whole world".
You use the word "in"; on the other hand, I use the word "of".
Second component:
The word "in" applies to the group abiding "in the evil one".
The group, the whole world, lies in the evil one.
Now, "the whole world" represents a group of people. The question I present to you asks if you are part of the said group.
Your assertion about 1 John 5:19 is deception.
Twice I answered your questions without you answering the question I presented to you first, so I would appreciate an answer from you to this question posed to you multiple times:
@theefaith, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?
Truth is not dependent upon human consensus or contention.
God declares truth in scripture.
The Apostle John wrote "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one; therefore, "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not include Christians.
Just like "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 does not mean everyone everywhere, "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 does not mean everyone everywhere either.
The Apostle John wrote "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for the whole world" (1 John 2:2), and this "the whole world" mentioned by John refers only to the chosen persons of God (John 15:16, John 15:19) who are yet to be imparted the work of God, faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29), and John's letter is to believers.
This is Apostolic doctrine because the Apostle John wrote these quoted passages.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Brother Kermos, John's "world"-view is of a system, a system in which live believers and unbelievers who sin. The "sins of the Whole World" of course refers to the sins of each and every individual living therein without exception. The World was created by God and loved by God, but is currently under control of The Evil One. You see this particularly in John's Gospel in John 12:31 and John 16:11. You see this world-view in Paul's writings also, as in Ephesians 2:2 and Ephesians 6:12. Christians live within this corrupt system, and I'm sure John's readers understood that. John exhorts his readers (and us!) in 1 John 5 to overcome this system by faith in Christ, even as we live within it. Overcome, not escape. We are Jesus's agents within the Kosmos. And let it be known that God has every intention to redeem the World that He created and loves.
If you don't get the world-view right, you're not going to understand.
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God only pardons those He has reserved !
Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
This also speaks to Particular Redemption, for Pardon comes through Redemption as Per Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
The word forgiveness is the greek word aphesis:
release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
And of course we know Eph 1:7 is speaking of the Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4
Mich 7:18
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
You see, pardoneth of the remnant, not all mankind, and this is speaking of God's Mercy, but its restricted, and so Paul writes Rom 9:18
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
He is particular about who He has mercy and pardon on !
Rom 11:4427
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
You see that ? I have reserved to myself ! Thats God's Freewill doing that !
We never truly worship the True God of Heaven until we understand this !
Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
This also speaks to Particular Redemption, for Pardon comes through Redemption as Per Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
The word forgiveness is the greek word aphesis:
release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
And of course we know Eph 1:7 is speaking of the Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4
Mich 7:18
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
You see, pardoneth of the remnant, not all mankind, and this is speaking of God's Mercy, but its restricted, and so Paul writes Rom 9:18
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
He is particular about who He has mercy and pardon on !
Rom 11:4427
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
You see that ? I have reserved to myself ! Thats God's Freewill doing that !
We never truly worship the True God of Heaven until we understand this !
Does not include the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles
That Jesus did not come to save all men without exception, nor to call them to Himself, is plainly intimated here Lk 5:32
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
There is a certain segment that He did not come to call to Himself. His Purpose for them was to make blind, or to confirm them in their delusions John 9:39428
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
This verse alone should convince us that some are made vessels of wrath to be fitted for destruction ! The others, He came that they might see, in other words, the Children of the Covenant will have their blind spiritual eyes opened to See Jesus as their Saviour ! Isa 42:6-7
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
There is a certain segment that He did not come to call to Himself. His Purpose for them was to make blind, or to confirm them in their delusions John 9:39428
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
This verse alone should convince us that some are made vessels of wrath to be fitted for destruction ! The others, He came that they might see, in other words, the Children of the Covenant will have their blind spiritual eyes opened to See Jesus as their Saviour ! Isa 42:6-7
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
One of the many scriptures that the opposing crowd twist to teach that Jesus Christ did die for the sins of every single individual in the world without exception is this one Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.429
But this scripture says nothing of the sort.
When John here spoke of Christ being that Lamb that taketh away the sin of the World, He was speaking of an Elect World, the Church of Christ in Fact of Eph 5:25, and that according to promise. Its the World of God's Elect Israel and Judah as Per Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
The World of His New Covenant People of which Christ is the Mediator of Heb 8:6-12
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Vs 12 here confirms what is promised in Jer 50:20, Their sins and iniquities will not be found, the reason why, they have been taken away by the Lamb of God Jn 1:29, the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 8:6
The House of Israel and Judah in Heb 8:8 and Jer 50:20 are spiritually referring to the elect jews and elect gentiles, and that constitutes the World of Jn 1:29 !
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.429
But this scripture says nothing of the sort.
When John here spoke of Christ being that Lamb that taketh away the sin of the World, He was speaking of an Elect World, the Church of Christ in Fact of Eph 5:25, and that according to promise. Its the World of God's Elect Israel and Judah as Per Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
The World of His New Covenant People of which Christ is the Mediator of Heb 8:6-12
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Vs 12 here confirms what is promised in Jer 50:20, Their sins and iniquities will not be found, the reason why, they have been taken away by the Lamb of God Jn 1:29, the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 8:6
The House of Israel and Judah in Heb 8:8 and Jer 50:20 are spiritually referring to the elect jews and elect gentiles, and that constitutes the World of Jn 1:29 !
Are you kidding me ? My point has been clearly articulated from the title of this thread, and the opening OP !
In Jn 17:9
Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
In and throughout this prayer of intercession, it is Christ praying to the Father, that as many as He has been given, and that He should lay down His Life in behalf of, that they receive the full benefit of it; for He having on their behalf, satisfied all of God's Law and Justice, for all their Transgressions Isa 53:5 against His Holy Law; and so it is, when He says in Jn 17:9, " I pray not for the World", meaning all mankind without exception, He is openly acknowledging that it is not for the world of mankind in general that He is to die for, and so it was not for mankind in general that He prayed that it would receive the Redemptive benefits of His Death !430
Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
In and throughout this prayer of intercession, it is Christ praying to the Father, that as many as He has been given, and that He should lay down His Life in behalf of, that they receive the full benefit of it; for He having on their behalf, satisfied all of God's Law and Justice, for all their Transgressions Isa 53:5 against His Holy Law; and so it is, when He says in Jn 17:9, " I pray not for the World", meaning all mankind without exception, He is openly acknowledging that it is not for the world of mankind in general that He is to die for, and so it was not for mankind in general that He prayed that it would receive the Redemptive benefits of His Death !430
@Lambano, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of “the whole world” as it is written in “the whole world lies in the evil one” (1 John 5:19)?
That is a foolish statement for the Word of God says "when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13).
You seem very, very scared to answer this question, and I've answered two of your questions in the interim since I originally posed this question to you:
@theefaith, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of “the whole world” as it is written in “the whole world lies in the evil one” (1 John 5:19)?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Brother Kermos, I consider you, me, and every individual in The Whole Wide World (believer and unbeliever, without exception !) to be part of the Whole World. While I acknowledge the tension between the "Now" and the "Not Yet" for believers, it is self-evident that we are currently in The World, and it is empirically undeniable that we are subject to the sin and death that is endemic to a system that lies in the Evil One. Undeniable and Biblical.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Brother Theefaith, let us confess that the Church of Jesus Christ (both as a collection of individuals and as an institution) has over the centuries proved itself to be part of The World. We have given in to venality, greed, the craving for worldly power, violence, and other sins. "We have failed to be an obedient Church, we have broken Your law, we have not done Your will, we have not loved our neighbors, and we have failed to hear the cry of the needy." Forgive us, O Lord.
It is to Christ's credit that He still loves us. But then, the relationship between Christ and His Church is necessarily deeper than the common grace love between God and the World. "We love Him because He first loved us".
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