Yeah, I dont know what you talking about, it has nothing to do with what Im posting.
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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Truly, whosoever is bounded by Lord Jesus' words!
The first order is to look at Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:
"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).
The second order is to examine the history of "the serpent in the wilderness" that Jesus mentions (see John 3:14):
Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. (Numbers 21:8-9)
The third order is to listen to the Master.
Jesus sets "the serpent in the wilderness" "lifted up" in relation to "the Son of Man" "lifted up" (all in John 3:14).
Jesus then states "so that every believing will in" Jesus "have eternal life" (John 3:15), but He intensifies this statement by repeating it right away.
Jesus continues with "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16), and here is where Jesus mentions "world".
Jesus follows up with intensifying his prior declaration (John 3:15) with "that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
The fourth order is to acknowledge the Master's words.
Jesus mentioned "the serpent in the wilderness", so by this He brings up the account of the bronze serpent (John 3:16includes Numbers 21:8-9).
The relation that Jesus set between the bronze serpent lifted up and Himself lifted up bears significance upon the population of persons that Jesus establishes for the word "world" in John 3:16.
For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).
Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).
Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every" (John 3:16, note that the Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).
Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).
Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).
Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".
So, Lord Jesus' sets the relationship between "every" ("whosoever" in KJV) in John 3:16 and the "he" in "when he" in Numbers 21:8.
AND THERE IT IS @Corlove13, THE KJV'S "WHOSOEVER" IS CONSTRAINED TO A SUBSET OF ALL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, AND THAT IS CALLED A BOUNDARY.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The verse in Matthew directly binds the notion that Jesus will be saved - even by those that receive him.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Well given the heretical title of your thread it doesn't surprise me that you are unfamiliar with the simple truth that Christ died for all to be saved (sufficient grace), but only those who are willing to be saved will be (efficient grace).
Now would be a good time for you to recant the heresy that claims Christ's death wasn't sufficient to redeem everyone without exception.
1Ti 2:3-7 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, (4) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (5) For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, (6) who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, (7) for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Scripture that teaches limited atonement !
A scripture or passage that does teach the definite or particular redemption is Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Notice for whom Christ came to specifically to redeem ' To redeem them that were under the Law [a specific people] that we [those under the law] might receive the Adoption of Sons ! Now what can be more particular than this phraseology used by the Spirit of God through the chosen Apostle, Paul says that WE [Believers] who were under the Law, might receive the Adoption of Sons [New Birth]. Now this Adoption was predestinated to occur Eph 1:4-5, and who was it that was predestinated to the Adoption of Sons ? It was the Chosen in Christ before the foundation, Eph 1:4 So this confirms the definite intention of Redemption for a definite People !
A scripture or passage that does teach the definite or particular redemption is Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Notice for whom Christ came to specifically to redeem ' To redeem them that were under the Law [a specific people] that we [those under the law] might receive the Adoption of Sons ! Now what can be more particular than this phraseology used by the Spirit of God through the chosen Apostle, Paul says that WE [Believers] who were under the Law, might receive the Adoption of Sons [New Birth]. Now this Adoption was predestinated to occur Eph 1:4-5, and who was it that was predestinated to the Adoption of Sons ? It was the Chosen in Christ before the foundation, Eph 1:4 So this confirms the definite intention of Redemption for a definite People !
Wow! I have never come across a Christian believer who thinks otherwise.
Mark 2:17
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
So all of Israel....is those alive at His coming? And not those who fell asleep?
Question what is the diff between a Jew and an Israelite?
Hi, I forgot why I asked that.......everybody in Adam is in the world....so who SOEVER is all that came through Adam...all man kind?
But you just gave me a thought for St John 3:16 is not a regeneration passage...it's a passage for those who continue believing? You think?
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Hi, I haven't read the whole thread...but recall
He does say not all Israel is Israel.....here He is speaking of ethnic Israel.....the elect to comform to the image of Christ are those who believe...as the father of faith....so even in ethnic Israel....there are those who believe and those that will not.........For Abraham was the father of a seed meaning Christ that All those who believed upon Him would be blessed through.....
Jn 11: 50-52 Particular Redemption !
That the scriptures teaches limited atonement or Particular redemption of some is seen here Jn 11:50-52
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
What is being stated here, is who Christ is to die for, Caiaphas speaking by inspiration of the Spirit is saying, Christ is to die for God's People, Sheep in the Nation of Israel, but not those Sheep only, but also for His Sheep or Children of God all over the World. Basically what's being said is the same as what Jesus said before in Chapter 10 Jn 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The bringing together of the Sheep here in Vs 16 and the gathering of the Children of God in Vs 52 are the same and is accomplished by the Death of Christ.
The objects of His Death are His Sheep or the Children of God, nothing about all mankind without exception, that has been introduced by false teaching of those who oppose the Truth !
The Children of God are manifested as to who they are by God given Faith Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
So in the end, only believers in Christ are those whom Christ died for, all the Children of God !
That means those who remain in unbelief were not those Christ died for, and were not the Children of God but Children of the devil ! 1 Jn 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.437
That the scriptures teaches limited atonement or Particular redemption of some is seen here Jn 11:50-52
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
What is being stated here, is who Christ is to die for, Caiaphas speaking by inspiration of the Spirit is saying, Christ is to die for God's People, Sheep in the Nation of Israel, but not those Sheep only, but also for His Sheep or Children of God all over the World. Basically what's being said is the same as what Jesus said before in Chapter 10 Jn 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The bringing together of the Sheep here in Vs 16 and the gathering of the Children of God in Vs 52 are the same and is accomplished by the Death of Christ.
The objects of His Death are His Sheep or the Children of God, nothing about all mankind without exception, that has been introduced by false teaching of those who oppose the Truth !
The Children of God are manifested as to who they are by God given Faith Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
So in the end, only believers in Christ are those whom Christ died for, all the Children of God !
That means those who remain in unbelief were not those Christ died for, and were not the Children of God but Children of the devil ! 1 Jn 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.437
Read my posts and follow the scripture I use and you may learn something new !
Christ is the redeemer of the world
Jn 1:29
Redeemed does not mean justified or saved
The new covenant is catholic, universal
Major covenants!
God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)
Adam
(Marriage covenant)
Noah
(Family covenant)
Abraham
(Tribal covenant)
Moses:
(National covenant)
Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)
New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18
Universal (Catholic)
World universal
Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)
Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people
Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world
Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world
1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal)
1 Tim 2:5 one mediator
Jn 10:16 One new covenant church
Kingdom
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
the holy Catholic Church
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
But the act of redemption is ....if you would read EPHESIANS you will see that....He saved you from being dead in sin....and made you alive with Christ...without being born from above you could not be Justified.....Eph 2 is about new Birth/regeneration....
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