The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Corlove13

Active Member
Apr 30, 2021
746
171
43
55
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
so believe it

Mk 16:16 is in the gospel
Please answer:

How was Paul to be Baptized here?

14Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will, and to see the Righteous One, and to hear His voice. 15You will be His witness to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away, calling on His name.’
 

Corlove13

Active Member
Apr 30, 2021
746
171
43
55
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
so believe it

Mk 16:16 is in the gospel
What dies scripture say here? In Romans 10

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,988
363
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
His People !

Who are Christ's People He died for in order to save them from their sins ? Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.


They are the foreknown of God as Per Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

They are the same as here also Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Which are those He Predestinated, So His People whom He came to die for and save were His Predestinated ones, those whom He did foreknow. He did not come to save all mankind without exception. He never came to die for and save those He shall say this to Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That's certainly not any of Matt 1:21, whether jew or gentile.491
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I see with such a response, a short-sightedness of what the gospel is that the apostles preached as found in the scriptures.

Tong
R3939
The gospels are matt mark luke and John not some fundamentalist definition f salvation
 

Tong2020

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,854
848
113
*
Faith
Christian
Country
Philippines
Tong2020 said:
I see with such a response, a short-sightedness of what the gospel is that the apostles preached as found in the scriptures.
The gospels are matt mark luke and John not some fundamentalist definition f salvation
The gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Not four gospels.

Tong
R3951
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Whoever passes with A's and receives their report card will go to the next class; but whoever doesn't pass with an A's will be held back.

So look what the latter does not say. It never mentions report card....because you you usually receive a report card after grades are in.

As people usually were Baptized because they received a teaching.

Yet could it be possible to be Baptized and not truly received the teaching/preaching? As with the case that could have been with the pharasees that came to John the Baptist but He rebuked them by telling them to bring forth fruit?

Likewise a person could receive a report card yet not gotten A's......

So if you deal with this...and not keep parroting ..much respect....For we all can Parrot and choose scripture out of context to prove our religious denomination.

whatever

you negate the word of God and reject the words of Jesus

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if they reject faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 1:13 4:30 sealed

God says baptism! Ez 36:25:27
Jesus Christ says baptism! Mk 16:16
Peter says baptism! Acts 3:38 1 Pet 3:21
Paul say baptism! 1 cor 1:16 1 cor 12:13
The apostles say baptism! Acts 2:38 acts 8:35
For 2000 yrs the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always taught baptism per matt 28:19
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Please answer:

How was Paul to be Baptized here?

14Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will, and to see the Righteous One, and to hear His voice. 15You will be His witness to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away, calling on His name.’

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What dies scripture say here? In Romans 10

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

You teaching works? Do you have to choose (volition) to confess and to believe?
 

Corlove13

Active Member
Apr 30, 2021
746
171
43
55
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
His People !

Who are Christ's People He died for in order to save them from their sins ? Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.


They are the foreknown of God as Per Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

They are the same as here also Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Which are those He Predestinated, So His People whom He came to die for and save were His Predestinated ones, those whom He did foreknow. He did not come to save all mankind without exception. He never came to die for and save those He shall say this to Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That's certainly not any of Matt 1:21, whether jew or gentile.491
2 things
How is one Foreknew in that context:

The same people who were once dead in sin..are His people
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2 things
How is one Foreknew in that context:

The same people who were once dead in sin..are His people

rom 5

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

all men redeemed by the blood of christ
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,988
363
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ex 34:5-7

5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.

6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.


This verse here Vs 7 shows hat the LORD did not have mercy to Save all mankind, but only some.

Now God's Mercy in forgiving Iniquity, and Transgression and Sin was provided for in Christ before the World began 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

He was the Surety set up for the Everlasting Covenant Ps 103:10-17

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.

14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.

16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

These would also be describing the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


God's Mercy is exercised towards them Christ died for, because Christ bare their Punishment for their sin and in doing so He purged them of their sins Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Now this word purged[katharismos] means, :

a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

So this corresponds to those God shews Mercy to forgiving sin, transgression and iniquity.

But on the other hand, God does not clear the guilty ! The Guilty are those Christ did not die for. The word clear in Ex 34:7

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

That word is the Hebrew naqah and means:

to be empty, be clear, be pure, be free, be innocent, be desolate, be cut off

a) (Qal) to be empty, be clean, be pure

b) (Niphal)

1) to be cleaned out, be purged out

2) to be clean, be free from guilt, be innocent

3) to be free, be exempt from punishment

4) to be free, be exempt from obligation

c) (Piel)

1) to hold innocent, acquit

2) to leave unpunished


And yet that is the very thing Christ's Death alone, of Himself did for those He died for. They are free from guilt and punishment of their sins because of the sacrifice of Christ Per Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Again purged our sins meaning :

a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Now all this was in line with what God said to Moses in Ex 33:19

after Moses asked the LORD to shew him His Glory Ex 33:18-19

18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

That Mercy is restricted to those He keeps it for Ex 34:7

7 Keeping [ Guard with fidelity]mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

God that Mercy Keeps out of Covenant Faithfulness to them for Christ's Sake !

Ps 89:1,24,33

I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.

Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.493
 

Corlove13

Active Member
Apr 30, 2021
746
171
43
55
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ex 34:5-7

5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.

6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.


This verse here Vs 7 shows hat the LORD did not have mercy to Save all mankind, but only some.

Now God's Mercy in forgiving Iniquity, and Transgression and Sin was provided for in Christ before the World began 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

He was the Surety set up for the Everlasting Covenant Ps 103:10-17

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.

14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.

16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

These would also be describing the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


God's Mercy is exercised towards them Christ died for, because Christ bare their Punishment for their sin and in doing so He purged them of their sins Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Now this word purged[katharismos] means, :

a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

So this corresponds to those God shews Mercy to forgiving sin, transgression and iniquity.

But on the other hand, God does not clear the guilty ! The Guilty are those Christ did not die for. The word clear in Ex 34:7

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

That word is the Hebrew naqah and means:

to be empty, be clear, be pure, be free, be innocent, be desolate, be cut off

a) (Qal) to be empty, be clean, be pure

b) (Niphal)

1) to be cleaned out, be purged out

2) to be clean, be free from guilt, be innocent

3) to be free, be exempt from punishment

4) to be free, be exempt from obligation

c) (Piel)

1) to hold innocent, acquit

2) to leave unpunished


And yet that is the very thing Christ's Death alone, of Himself did for those He died for. They are free from guilt and punishment of their sins because of the sacrifice of Christ Per Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Again purged our sins meaning :

a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Now all this was in line with what God said to Moses in Ex 33:19

after Moses asked the LORD to shew him His Glory Ex 33:18-19

18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

That Mercy is restricted to those He keeps it for Ex 34:7

7 Keeping [ Guard with fidelity]mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

God that Mercy Keeps out of Covenant Faithfulness to them for Christ's Sake !

Ps 89:1,24,33

I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.

Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.493
Only if they have put on Christ! Have you?
I don't know..I COULD BE GOING TO HELL
BECAUSE I BELIEVE WATER BAPTISM IS AN OUTWARD EXPRESSION OF AN INWARD CONVICTION. RIGHT NOW I AM WATCHING TV...DOES THAT MEAN I PUT CHRIST ON..?
I OVER ATE TODAY DOES THAT MEAN I PUT CHRIST ON.....? I CALLED MY MOM TO SEE HOW SHE WAS, I PRAYED, BUT THEN I WENT TO THE GOODWILL, IM TIRED DOES THAT MEAN I PUT CHRIST ON....IM UPSET WITH MY SPOUSE?
 

Corlove13

Active Member
Apr 30, 2021
746
171
43
55
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
whatever

you negate the word of God and reject the words of Jesus

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if they reject faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 1:13 4:30 sealed

God says baptism! Ez 36:25:27
Jesus Christ says baptism! Mk 16:16
Peter says baptism! Acts 3:38 1 Pet 3:21
Paul say baptism! 1 cor 1:16 1 cor 12:13
The apostles say baptism! Acts 2:38 acts 8:35
For 2000 yrs the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always taught baptism per matt 28:19
I do not reject the word....or negate anything...

Just use the sense God gave me to read...
You preach you must be water Baptized to be saved?

You attack me rather than addressing what is shown to you........why is that? Because you believe what you believe and choose not to read...because you want to believe what you believe.....
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,988
363
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 Thess 5:9-10

1 Thess 5:9-10

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for those whom God the Father did not appoint to wrath, but instead, that they [whom He died for] should obtain Salvation through Their Lord Jesus Christ.

Note, those whom should obtain Salvation instead of Wrath, are the ones Paul said He died for Vs 10.

They are also these of Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or death, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Of course thats the same wrath spoken of in 1 Thess 5:9 that they were not appointed to, and for whom Christ died in Vs 10.

They are also the ones referred to here Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

None whom Christ died for were appointed to wrath, and shall never be under His Wrath, not in this world, or the Next, Thanks to Jesus Christ who died for them !496
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,988
363
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So if those were once outside of Christ are in Christ, then anyone in Christ when they get in Christ would be considered...foreknew as well...
Those who are Gods people whom He foreknew are never outside of Christ, they were chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:14, they were only foreknew in Christ.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do not reject the word....or negate anything...

Just use the sense God gave me to read...
You preach you must be water Baptized to be saved?

You attack me rather than addressing what is shown to you........why is that? Because you believe what you believe and choose not to read...because you want to believe what you believe.....

jesus says water baptism required Mk 16:16