The New Heaven and Earth

[ezekiel]

So now we have Christ other planet is reaped. This is the first planet to be reaped.

4 Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord: and I fell upon my face.


Lets look at some of the affects of this just a couple.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.


9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

star heads east north and south poles begin to melt.

47 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

Here we have more. The star heads east rather the brass man. No longer 24 hour day. the affect of the other stars.

Revelation 8:12
And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, all.
Does anyone here speak English? What IS all this ... NONSENSE! this ... DRIVEL!
First of all, stick to one passage of Scripture at a time. It will make more sense if you do. I'm going to start with the New Earth as it is described in Revelation 21 and 22.
Look at my avatar, for instance. Here, we have a cut-away view of the New Jerusalem, the capital city of the New Earth, which by the way is NOT another "earth"; it's the current earth re-made after the global Fire, just as the present earth was re-made from the remains of the first earth after the global Flood. The word "earth" (the Greek word "gee" pronounced "gay," since all gammas are pronounced as a hard "g" as in "girl" and never as a soft "g" as in "gender," and I use an "ee" for an eta pronounced as "ay") means the "ground," the "soil," the "dirt," or the "land." Only when applied to ALL the "land" may it refer to the whole planet. The word "heaven" (the Greek word "ouranos") means the "sky," the "atmosphere," or the "air." We're talking about an agrarian culture at the time Revelation 21 and 22 were written.
To talk about the sun, moon, and stars, Paul used a different Greek word: epouranios, which means "of or related to above the sky." This Greek word was translated as "heavenly" or "celestial." (See 1 Cor. 15:40-41.) This word was also used to describe the New Jerusalem in Hebrews 12:22.
John (Yochanan) said the following in the first few verses of Rev. 21:

Revelation 21:1-4
1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth (land): for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (out of the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (a loud voice out of the sky) saying, Behold (Look!), the tabernacle (tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

This, by the way, is the FIRST time that God shall wipe away all tears! It doesn't happen when one dies. He doesn't do this for the Millennium; during the Millennium (the 1000-year time period during which the Messiah Yeshua` is reigning) there will still be tears, death, sorrow, crying, and pain. It's not until AFTER the global Fire, AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment (GWTJ), and AFTER the reforming of the earth and sky that God wipes away all tears.

Well, that's a start. More to come....

 

[ezekiel]

Shalom, all.
Does anyone here speak English? What IS all this ... NONSENSE! this ... DRIVEL!
First of all, stick to one passage of Scripture at a time. It will make more sense if you do. I'm going to start with the New Earth as it is described in Revelation 21 and 22.
Look at my avatar, for instance. Here, we have a cut-away view of the New Jerusalem, the capital city of the New Earth, which by the way is NOT another "earth"; it's the current earth re-made after the global Fire, just as the present earth was re-made from the remains of the first earth after the global Flood. The word "earth" (the Greek word "gee" pronounced "gay," since all gammas are pronounced as a hard "g" as in "girl" and never as a soft "g" as in "gender," and I use an "ee" for an eta pronounced as "ay") means the "ground," the "soil," the "dirt," or the "land." Only when applied to ALL the "land" may it refer to the whole planet. The word "heaven" (the Greek word "ouranos") means the "sky," the "atmosphere," or the "air." We're talking about an agrarian culture at the time Revelation 21 and 22 were written.
To talk about the sun, moon, and stars, Paul used a different Greek word: epouranios, which means "of or related to above the sky." This Greek word was translated as "heavenly" or "celestial." (See 1 Cor. 15:40-41.) This word was also used to describe the New Jerusalem in Hebrews 12:22.
John (Yochanan) said the following in the first few verses of Rev. 21:

Who has taught you these things. Your error in things are off far. God will make all new and the star comming will catch the heavens of fire.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

You doctrine is flawed ? God has thousand of planets with people. You think God was created when He created earth. Your doctrine is strange.

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Just so you understand, John will return and its these words you will hear from him. I will give him the little book I wrote. Will you hear him.

Revelation 21:1-4
1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth (land): for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (out of the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (a loud voice out of the sky) saying, Behold (Look!), the tabernacle (tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

This, by the way, is the FIRST time that God shall wipe away all tears! It doesn't happen when one dies. He doesn't do this for the Millennium; during the Millennium (the 1000-year time period during which the Messiah Yeshua` is reigning) there will still be tears, death, sorrow, crying, and pain. It's not until AFTER the global Fire, AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment (GWTJ), and AFTER the reforming of the earth and sky that God wipes away all tears.

Well, that's a start. More to come....

 

[ezekiel]

Well, that's a start. More to come....

Take your time ask the elders your council is of men. My Father in heaven is my council. He has and will speak to me.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, "ezekiel."

Take your time ask the elders your council is of men. My Father in heaven is my council. He has and will speak to me.

Hmmmm... Well, perhaps, but no more than He does to me. Also, for clarity's sake, please try to remember the rules for run-on sentences. You should have written, "Take your time. Ask the elders. Your council is of men." Now, really? Oh, I see. YOU'VE got SPECIAL REVELATION FROM GOD HIMSELF, have you? And, there's absolutely NO WAY that I could have such revelation from God, could I? Are you really that arrogant and naive?!

Kefa (Peter) gave us clear information on the fact that today's earth is remade from the first earth, and that we are to expect a third:

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

Now, moving on, we are told that the New Jerusalem lands upon the New Earth. How? By using the following wording with the word "ouranos" for "heaven":

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (out of ouranos or out of the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Since there is no gap between the sky (the atmosphere) and the ground, it must therefore follow that the New Jerusalem will come in contact with the ground.
We also see that the gates around the perimeter of the city are on walls that face north, east, west, and south.
The city also has FOUNDATIONS (Greek: themelioi meaning "footings"). At least the first footing should be sunk into the ground.

Now, since the New Earth will be reformed from the Earth which is now, then, like the Earth which is now has similar dimensions to the Earth standing in the water and out of the water, the New Earth should have similar dimensions to the Earth which is now.

"size(Earth standing in water and out of water) ~ size(Earth which is now) ~ size(the New Earth)"

Therefore, the New Earth will have approximately the same circumference of 24,873.6 miles, which according to NASA is the circumference of the Earth which is now.

Now, let's consider the length, width, and height of the city, "12,000 furlongs": The word translated "furlongs" is the Greek word "stadioon," the accusative plural of "stadion":

NT:4712 stadion (stad'-ee-on); or masculine (in plural) stadios (stad'-ee- os); from the base of NT:2476 (as fixed); a stade or certain measure of distance; by implication, a stadium or race-course:
KJV - furlong, race.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

According to Wikipedia, the Roman stadium or stade was 607.142222 feet.

Now, we simply make the calculations:

12,000 stadia x (607.142222 feet / stade) x (1 mile / 5280 feet) = 1,379.868687 miles.

Now, we set up a ratio: 1,379.868687 miles / 24,873.6 miles = X degrees / 360 degrees
And solve: X degrees = 360 degrees x 1,379.868687 miles / 24,873.6 miles = 19.9711 degrees of the earth's circumference.
When you consider that a time zone is approximately 15 degrees, this is almost 1.3314 time zones! That's how HUGE this city will be!

More later...

 

[ezekiel]

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Why do you want to live on the new earth in the waters below. You see the body that dwell in this place.

Your numbers are off. The measurement are that of a ANGEL so you need start over. Next can you explain the above. Never mind I will.


Genesis 1:6
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

These are old and has been since God created them. Science is close but its older.


When God created things he separated the waters cosmos and the waters above the cosmos where the angels are. The house of God are above these.
and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

I knew you would say these things And not understand them

 

[ezekiel]

Why do you want to live on the new earth in the waters below. You see the body that dwell in this place.

Your numbers are off. The measurement are that of a ANGEL so you need start over. Next can you explain the above. Never mind I will.


Genesis 1:6
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

These are old and has been since God created them. Science is close but its older.


When God created things he separated the waters cosmos and the waters above the cosmos where the angels are. The house of God are above these.
and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

I knew you would say these things And not understand them

Again the Lord God is moving on the waters. He will form the new earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The God of Gods the Lord of spirits controls all things.

And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

Soon you will see the new earth as God prepares it.

Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

The new earth will be forever before the Lord and shall not be remove as this earth will.

Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.

But there the glorious Lord will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.

Blessed be the Lord.

 

[buddyt]

Three Earth Ages Three Heaven Ages. Not Three Earths Not Three Heavens. At this time we are in the Second Earth Age. The First Earth Age having past after Satan and his followers rebelled. It must have been Heaven on Earth witch it was. Tulips and other plant life have been found in Alaska in the frozen tundra. They wont grow there now but they did then. The North pole is off we know that. There is a difference of about 500 kilometers between Geographic North and Magnetic North poles. Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them and said unto them be fruitful and multiply and REPLENISH the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Notice the word REPLENISH. To fill to a FORMER level. Restore etc.

2 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of that by the word of God the heavens WERE of OLD and the earth standing out of the water and in the water. 6 Whereby the world that THEN WAS being overflowed with water perished. 7 But the heavens and the earth witch are now by the same word are kept in store reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Peter explains it very well.

I know some say this is the flood of Noah's time but that's not so. Read on.

Jeremiah 4:22-26 For my people is foolish they have not known me they are sottish children and they have none understanding they are wise to do evil but to do good they have no knowledge. 23 I beheld the earth and lo it was without form and void and the heavens and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains and lo they TREMBLED and all the HILLS MOVED LIGHTLY. 25 I beheld and lo there was NO MAN and all the BIRDS of the heavens were FLED. These verses tell us how it was when and after God shook the Heavens and the Earth. This is what moved us into the Earth age we are in now.

 

[ezekiel]

Jeremiah 4:22-26 For my people is foolish they have not known me they are sottish children and they have none understanding they are wise to do evil but to do good they have no knowledge. 23 I beheld the earth and lo it was without form and void and the heavens and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains and lo they TREMBLED and all the HILLS MOVED LIGHTLY. 25 I beheld and lo there was NO MAN and all the BIRDS of the heavens were FLED. These verses tell us how it was when and after God shook the Heavens and the Earth. This is what moved us into the Earth age we are in now.

You may be right for God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Jeremiah 4, Isaiah 2, Isaiah 33, Ezekiel 8/9 also dry bones, all speak of the same events in the last days. With complete destruction of earth and New Heavens. I know, I have seen them.

 

[eldios]

funny though, life is better, right now, by any measure you care to use, than it has ever been. The world has been completely remade, in the last 100 years, and if you were to describe your life to anyone from 100 years ago--unless they were Tesla, perhaps--they would be sure you were either lying or crazy.

Tell that to the billion starving people in the world who also have impure water to drink.

 

[bbyrd009]

Tell that to the billion starving people in the world who also have impure water to drink.

i'm not sure how valid that perspective is tbh, "official" figures cite declining poverty, but then again many societies did just fine before modern society and the concept of money was introduced to them. So i don't know.

The point there might be "how do you know that there weren't 2 billion starving before?"
With all due respect i also note that "starving people" is a big money-maker, yet we still throw away half of our food lol.

 

[eldios]

i'm not sure how valid that perspective is tbh, "official" figures cite declining poverty, but then again many societies did just fine before modern society and the concept of money was introduced to them. So i don't know.

The point there might be "how do you know that there weren't 2 billion starving before?"
With all due respect i also note that "starving people" is a big money-maker, yet we still throw away half of our food lol.

On the day of the Lord, everything on earth will be destroyed and melted with hot molten lava. Then a new heaven and earth will appear where created men will experience a much different life without information called Satan and the beast.

 

[bbyrd009]

On the day of the Lord, everything on earth will be destroyed and melted with hot molten lava. Then a new heaven and earth will appear where created men will experience a much different life without information called Satan and the beast.

so then, no evil will exist, ergo no sin can manifest, and God has essentially just completed a several billion year exercise to make what He already made once, that being angels? Tell me, will He wrinkle His nose to do this, do you think? Why is not today the Day of the Lord, i have to ask? Wait for the world to change as long as you like, ok, and best of luck to you with that.

 

[eldios]

so then, no evil will exist, ergo no sin can manifest, and God has essentially just completed a several billion year exercise to make what He already made once, that being angels? Tell me, will He wrinkle His nose to do this, do you think? Why is not today the Day of the Lord, i have to ask? Wait for the world to change as long as you like, ok, and best of luck to you with that.

The day of the Lord is a one hour event that will destroy everything on earth when the whole earth starts shaking violently as indicated in the prophecies.

Revelation 18
10: they will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, "Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come."
11: And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo any more,
12: cargo of gold, silver, jewels and pearls, fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet, all kinds of scented wood, all articles of ivory, all articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble,
13: cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.
14: "The fruit for which thy soul longed has gone from thee, and all thy dainties and thy splendor are lost to thee, never to be found again!"
15: The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud,
16: "Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, bedecked with gold, with jewels, and with pearls!
17: In one hour all this wealth has been laid waste." And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off
18: and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, "What city was like the great city?"
19: And they threw dust on their heads, as they wept and mourned, crying out, "Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! In one hour she has been laid waste.
20: Rejoice over her, O heaven, O saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!"
21: Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more;
22: and the sound of harpers and minstrels, of flute players and trumpeters, shall be heard in thee no more; and a craftsman of any craft shall be found in thee no more; and the sound of the millstone shall be heard in thee no more;
23: and the light of a lamp shall shine in thee no more; and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall be heard in thee no more; for thy merchants were the great men of the earth, and all nations were deceived by thy sorcery.
24: And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth."

Isaiah 24
18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19: The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.
20: The earth staggers like a drunken man, it sways like a hut; its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will not rise again.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Be patient. The day of the Lord will soon happen now that the millennium reign of Christ has ended.

 

[bbyrd009]

The day of the Lord is a one hour event that will destroy everything on earth when the whole earth starts shaking violently as indicated in the prophecies.

well, the whole earth is shaking pretty violently right now imo, and i don't believe you can substantiate a "one hour event" with all due respect.

Be patient. The day of the Lord will soon happen now that the millennium reign of Christ has ended.

Ha ya think so? Because i don't think so. I think lots of people have believed that oh, heck prolly since there started being people, and we have more than one example in Scripture too.

This ezack same subject is discussed in the Book, and if i went and dug it up and quoted it you would not appreciate the comparison with all due respect. You are basically fear-mongering about a spiritual event that has been misrepresented to you, and you are pointing "here It is, over here (in the near future)," let the reader understand.

 

[eldios]

well, the whole earth is shaking pretty violently right now imo, and i don't believe you can substantiate a "one hour event" with all due respect.
Ha ya think so? Because i don't think so. I think lots of people have believed that oh, heck prolly since there started being people, and we have more than one example in Scripture too.

This ezack same subject is discussed in the Book, and if i went and dug it up and quoted it you would not appreciate the comparison with all due respect. You are basically fear-mongering about a spiritual event that has been misrepresented to you, and you are pointing "here It is, over here (in the near future)," let the reader understand.

Peter said it best;

2 Peter 3
1 This is now the second letter that I have written to you, beloved, and in both of them I have aroused your sincere mind by way of reminder;
2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."
5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,
6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
13 But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
14 Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.
15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

Peter said it best;

2 Peter 3
1 This is now the second letter that I have written to you, beloved, and in both of them I have aroused your sincere mind by way of reminder;
2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."
5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,
6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
13 But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
14 Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.
15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

yes, and so logically that must be saying that some cataclysmic hour must soon be at hand, right, when all of the inhabitants of the earth pretty much come to a sudden end right now.

The bottom line is that you are still waiting for Jesus, to do something, in order that your kingdom be manifest, and while i agree that Scripture may certainly be read that way, and you may certainly believe what you like, it might be in your interest to at least entertain that there is another way to understand those lines, maybe pair them with "there is nothing new under the sun" or something, many other examples there.

Contemplate that you are a logical thinker reading dialectical master works, and you do not know how to think dialectically, and if i went and dug up the counterpoint to those passages, or pointed out the examples of the First Church in Acts who sold all they had and brought the money to the Apostles' feet, but later desired Paul to collect alms for them when their beliefs did not materialize, you would have no answer.

And i am not saying that i know for a fact that there will be no common climax, ok. But i am suggesting that you are on a spiritual path that will culminate in a personal climax, and after all this is the stated goal of Scripture, that you, personally, may be instructed in the construction of your temple, built without hands, that will be subjected to the fire.

Armageddon, for you, will end when you die, just as it has for countless others, when they came to their "sudden" end, and fwiw i am old enough to have witnessed the passing of several believers who held to a physical rapture and other such misinterpreted nonsense, at least previously, as most of them get wise in their old age, maybe their final days, and you can see the progression from knowing to disappointment, rejection even, as they are cast adrift by their beliefs, when God refuses to perform as they had been instructed, and, rarely, the peace and joy that are evident if they come back up the other side, after falling off an existential cliff.

Unfortunately i will not be able to clearly relate their final conclusions, as they vary, but the point is that you can see the progression if you visit them every day, and some come to a place of rest, while others pass away still very conflicted, and five minutes with them will advertise where they are at spiritually. i guess that doesn't relay as much info as i had hoped, but i can tell you that it is profound.

In my experience rapture and other escapist heresies are things that are mostly observed by the world (religion) and new believers, that old believers pretty much all stop believing over time and experience. Note how closely this belief agrees with the beliefs of practically everyone in the rest of the world; everyone believes some cataclysmic event is coming. We have like 50 movies about it, it is fantasy entertainment for us. This is the camp that you advocate for.

 

[eldios]

yes, and so logically that must be saying that some cataclysmic hour must soon be at hand, right, when all of the inhabitants of the earth pretty much come to a sudden end right now.

The bottom line is that you are still waiting for Jesus, to do something, in order that your kingdom be manifest, and while i agree that Scripture may certainly be read that way, and you may certainly believe what you like, it might be in your interest to at least entertain that there is another way to understand those lines, maybe pair them with "there is nothing new under the sun" or something, many other examples there.

Contemplate that you are a logical thinker reading dialectical master works, and you do not know how to think dialectically, and if i went and dug up the counterpoint to those passages, or pointed out the examples of the First Church in Acts who sold all they had and brought the money to the Apostles' feet, but later desired Paul to collect alms for them when their beliefs did not materialize, you would have no answer.

And i am not saying that i know for a fact that there will be no common climax, ok. But i am suggesting that you are on a spiritual path that will culminate in a personal climax, and after all this is the stated goal of Scripture, that you, personally, may be instructed in the construction of your temple, built without hands, that will be subjected to the fire.

Armageddon, for you, will end when you die, just as it has for countless others, when they came to their "sudden" end, and fwiw i am old enough to have witnessed the passing of several believers who held to a physical rapture and other such misinterpreted nonsense, at least previously, as most of them get wise in their old age, maybe their final days, and you can see the progression from knowing to disappointment, rejection even, as they are cast adrift by their beliefs, when God refuses to perform as they had been instructed, and, rarely, the peace and joy that are evident if they come back up the other side, after falling off an existential cliff.

Unfortunately i will not be able to clearly relate their final conclusions, as they vary, but the point is that you can see the progression if you visit them every day, and some come to a place of rest, while others pass away still very conflicted, and five minutes with them will advertise where they are at spiritually. i guess that doesn't relay as much info as i had hoped, but i can tell you that it is profound.

In my experience rapture and other escapist heresies are things that are mostly observed by the world (religion) and new believers, that old believers pretty much all stop believing over time and experience. Note how closely this belief agrees with the beliefs of practically everyone in the rest of the world; everyone believes some cataclysmic event is coming. We have like 50 movies about it, it is fantasy entertainment for us. This is the camp that you advocate for.

I am God's last servant to testify for Him during this second witness of the millennium reign of Christ. I possess the mind of Christ and know what is going to happen on the day of the Lord and how we'll experience life in the next generation after the information called Satan and the beast have been deleted from the program.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am God's last servant to testify for Him during this second witness of the millennium reign of Christ. I possess the mind of Christ and know what is going to happen on the day of the Lord and how we'll experience life in the next generation after the information called Satan and the beast have been deleted from the program.

ah then my profoundest apologies; i simply did not realize who you are i guess.

 

[eldios]

ah then my profoundest apologies; i simply did not realize who you are i guess.

It's impossible to know who one of God's servant is. Even chosen believers who listen to the gospel of God we preach to them aren't interested in our bodies as they listen to His voice and hear all the words from Christ coming out of it. The servant dies but the word of the Lord that we speak will go on forever which is known as the Word of God.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Isaiah 40
6: A voice says, "Cry!" And I said, "What shall I cry?" All flesh is grass, and all its beauty is like the flower of the field.
7: The grass withers, the flower fades, when the breath of the LORD blows upon it; surely the people is grass.
8: The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.

We were created as information called Christ that will never perish. The information called Satan and the beast that give created man a visible body and other visible images and thoughts that are good and evil will be deleted on the day of the Lord. Never again will a created man be deceived by the visible images he thought was his true reality.