The Nicene Creed is not Christian

[Joyful]

One could just ask Jesus??

Jesus taught us how to love God and love one another in His Gospels that His disciples passed down.

All you have to do is to read His word and He will teach all of us.

 

[mjrhealth]

All you have to do is to read His word and He will teach all of us.

What? dont you believe Jesus is real, dont you think you can talk to him, isnt the Risen Lord, the Living God a better option than teh "dead Letter", or is it people will Just insist on not doing as He asked, and going to Him so they can have life.

Maybe we should call it biblianity since that is waht is all seems to be about.

 

[OzSpen]

Jesus taught us how to love God and love one another in His Gospels that His disciples passed down.

All you have to do is to read His word and He will teach all of us.

So, did Jesus teach us anything else in His Gospels besides loving God and loving one another?

 

[Joyful]

What? dont you believe Jesus is real, dont you think you can talk to him, isnt the Risen Lord, the Living God a better option than teh "dead Letter", or is it people will Just insist on not doing as He asked, and going to Him so they can have life.

Maybe we should call it biblianity since that is waht is all seems to be about.

Your reasoning is so convoluted.

Why do you make simple gospel so complicated?

 

[Joyful]

So, did Jesus teach us anything else in His Gospels besides loving God and loving one another?

All Jesus taught us is related to how to love God and one another.

 

[OzSpen]

All Jesus taught us is related to how to love God and one another.

That's a red herring logical fallacy of a reply.

'Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin"' (John 8:31 ESV). Please tell me how that relates to how to love God and one another.

 

[Joyful]

That's a red herring logical fallacy of a reply.

'Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin"' (John 8:31 ESV). Please tell me how that relates to how to love God and one another.

If you love God you won't commit sin because He commands us not to sin.

 

[ATP]

If you love God you won't commit sin because He commands us not to sin.

..and at the same time it's impossible to live sinless.

 

[Wormwood]

The Salvation Army is an overtly evangelical Christian denomination,and in my country is evangelistic in association with its excellent social work. However, baptism and the Lord's supper are not practised by this denomination. I consider they are being disobedient by not committing themselves to these 2 ordinances, but I know many of them who are delightful Christian people and thus are baptised into Christ. How do I know? I married one of them 47 years ago and she was a delightful Christian woman then (unbaptised) and still is. She was baptised when she came to the Baptist church where I worshipped.

So, requiring water baptism to actualise being baptised into Christ is not something that I'm able to affirm in Scripture and practically.

Oz, you shared your practical reasons for your view, but I am not seeing your Scriptural ones. Do you really think Paul was not referring to water baptism in Romans 6? If so, what brings you to this conclusion based on what we see in Acts, the commission of Jesus and the history of the early Church?

For the record, I affirm that God will be gracious to those who believe but are not baptized due to ignorance or poor teaching on the subject (although I think God will hold those teachers accountable for rejecting his Word and teaching that which is contrary to his explicit commands). Yet, I must teach that Scripture says that cleansing and the Holy Spirit are promised at baptism...so I would be in great error to promise someone that God will bestow these gifts apart from his promise to do this as the believer submits to baptism in the name of Christ. Far be it from me to promise something God has not promised and neglect something God has commanded!

 

[mjrhealth]

Your reasoning is so convoluted.

Why do you make simple gospel so complicated?

Convoluted how may I ask.

The gospel is not complicated, what is so complicated about the risen Lord, everything Christ Teaches leads men to Himself. it is men who distance themselves through " reasoning".

Narrow is the way that leads to life and few shall find it.

I am the way the truth and the life

Not to difficult is it.

In all His Love

 

[OzSpen]

If you love God you won't commit sin because He commands us not to sin.

Do you sin?

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, you shared your practical reasons for your view, but I am not seeing your Scriptural ones. Do you really think Paul was not referring to water baptism in Romans 6? If so, what brings you to this conclusion based on what we see in Acts, the commission of Jesus and the history of the early Church?

For the record, I affirm that God will be gracious to those who believe but are not baptized due to ignorance or poor teaching on the subject (although I think God will hold those teachers accountable for rejecting his Word and teaching that which is contrary to his explicit commands). Yet, I must teach that Scripture says that cleansing and the Holy Spirit are promised at baptism...so I would be in great error to promise someone that God will bestow these gifts apart from his promise to do this as the believer submits to baptism in the name of Christ. Far be it from me to promise something God has not promised and neglect something God has commanded!

Please show me where 'water' is mentioned for baptism in Romans 6?

By giving the examples from the Salvation Army in my country, I was demonstrating that people can be baptised into Christ without being water baptised. In fact, my parents were saved through the preaching of Billy Graham in 1959 as they heard his voice/message coming out of the loud speakers at the Bundaberg Show Grounds (called Fair Grounds in USA). They were not immersed in baptism until a few years later. Were they baptised into Christ when they were saved or only when they were baptised in water? Jesus became Lord of our household before they were baptised.

These are practical issues with significant theological ramifications. I was saved, baptised into Christ, months before my baptism in water.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Convoluted how may I ask.

The gospel is not complicated, what is so complicated about the risen Lord, everything Christ Teaches leads men to Himself. it is men who distance themselves through " reasoning".

Narrow is the way that leads to life and few shall find it.

I am the way the truth and the life

Not to difficult is it.

In all His Love

So, shouldn't people be using their 'reasoning' when they come to God?

How do you deal with Isaiah 1:18 (ESV): '“Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool'.

 

[Joyful]

Do you sin?

Of course I sin. But Jesus is expecting for His followers to be perfect, and I am not perfect no one is except Jesus; Jesus is only one without sin. But His followers need to aim for perfection.

The Holy Spirit help His followers to grow into Him as time goes by. Perfection is life long endeavor.

Jesus is seeking our pure heart and sincere faith.

 

[Joyful]

Not to difficult is it.

Jesus expects His followers to be perfect. You don't think it is difficult?

 

[ATP]

Please show me where 'water' is mentioned for baptism in Romans 6?

By giving the examples from the Salvation Army in my country, I was demonstrating that people can be baptised into Christ without being water baptised. In fact, my parents were saved through the preaching of Billy Graham in 1959 as they heard his voice/message coming out of the loud speakers at the Bundaberg Show Grounds (called Fair Grounds in USA). They were not immersed in baptism until a few years later. Were they baptised into Christ when they were saved or only when they were baptised in water? Jesus became Lord of our household before they were baptised.

These are practical issues with significant theological ramifications. I was saved, baptised into Christ, months before my baptism in water.

Oz

That's right Oz, it is your faith that saves you. You get baptized in a lake without faith, all you'll have is wet clothes. Eph 2:8.

Jesus expects His followers to be perfect. You don't think it is difficult?

Jesus is using "perfect" as a metaphor.

 

[OzSpen]

Of course I sin. But Jesus is expecting for His followers to be perfect, and I am not perfect no one is except Jesus; Jesus is only one without sin. But His followers need to aim for perfection.

The Holy Spirit help His followers to grow into Him as time goes by. Perfection is life long endeavor.

Jesus is seeking our pure heart and sincere faith.

But you were the one at #188 who stated, 'If you love God you won't commit sin because He commands us not to sin.'

So are you still loving God when you state, 'Of course I sin'?

 

[OzSpen]

That's right Oz, it is your faith that saves you. You get baptized in a lake without faith, all you'll have is wet clothes. Eph 2:8.

Amen!

 

[Wormwood]

Please show me where 'water' is mentioned for baptism in Romans 6?

By giving the examples from the Salvation Army in my country, I was demonstrating that people can be baptised into Christ without being water baptised. In fact, my parents were saved through the preaching of Billy Graham in 1959 as they heard his voice/message coming out of the loud speakers at the Bundaberg Show Grounds (called Fair Grounds in USA). They were not immersed in baptism until a few years later. Were they baptised into Christ when they were saved or only when they were baptised in water? Jesus became Lord of our household before they were baptised.

These are practical issues with significant theological ramifications. I was saved, baptised into Christ, months before my baptism in water.

Oz

So you think Paul is not pointing to a specific event, but is talking about some nebulous metaphysical experience as proof that they have been buried and raised? I don't think any first century reader would read Romans 6 and conclude that Paul is speaking about anything but water baptism. Baptism is always referring to water baptism unless otherwise qualified. Otherwise, texts like Matt 28 and Acts 2:38 make no sense at all. It wasn't until Zwingli decided ex nihilo that baptism was a "work" distinguished from faith that such ideas even existed. There was no such thing as a non-baptized Christian in the first century. It was always seen as the moment someone entered the church and received cleansing and life.

Of course without faith a person is only getting wet. No one is arguing for the power of water. It is only God that saves and cleanses, but he has made it abundantly clear that he does this work when the person submits themselves to immersion as a calling out to God for cleansing in Christ. I think it is a wild assumption to argue that Paul's statement, "Don't you know when you were dunked that you were buried with Christ" would ever be understood by readers to be a "spiritual" dunking. Like "glossia" we have spiritualized very common Greek words that had a basic and common meaning, and so doing, have altered the original meaning....IMO.

 

[OzSpen]

So you think Paul is not pointing to a specific event, but is talking about some nebulous metaphysical experience as proof that they have been buried and raised? I don't think any first century reader would read Romans 6 and conclude that Paul is speaking about anything but water baptism. Baptism is always referring to water baptism unless otherwise qualified. Otherwise, texts like Matt 28 and Acts 2:38 make no sense at all. It wasn't until Zwingli decided ex nihilo that baptism was a "work" distinguished from faith that such ideas even existed. There was no such thing as a non-baptized Christian in the first century. It was always seen as the moment someone entered the church and received cleansing and life.

Of course without faith a person is only getting wet. No one is arguing for the power of water. It is only God that saves and cleanses, but he has made it abundantly clear that he does this work when the person submits themselves to immersion as a calling out to God for cleansing in Christ. I think it is a wild assumption to argue that Paul's statement, "Don't you know when you were dunked that you were buried with Christ" would ever be understood by readers to be a "spiritual" dunking. Like "glossia" we have spiritualized very common Greek words that had a basic and common meaning, and so doing, have altered the original meaning....IMO.

You still have not provided the exposition for which I asked: 'Please show me where 'water' is mentioned for baptism in Romans 6?'

You claim in #189 that I'm the one who 'shared your practical reasons for your view, but I am not seeing your Scriptural ones'. What are yo u doing when you state: 'I think it is a wild assumption to argue that Paul's statement, "Don't you know when you were dunked that you were buried with Christ" would ever be understood by readers to be a "spiritual" dunking'. That is your speculation. To this point, you have not provided an exposition, based on the exegesis, of Romans 6.

Could this be the pot calling the kettle black?

Oz