The Nicene Creed is not Christian

[Joyful]

But you were the one at #188 who stated, 'If you love God you won't commit sin because He commands us not to sin.'

So are you still loving God when you state, 'Of course I sin'?

You don't make sense at all. You seem to just making excuses for ignoring Jesus' word.

Just because we are not sinless or perfect does not make it right to disregard Jesus' word.

It is not about us, it is Jesus' word I am talking about.

 

[mjrhealth]

It is not about us, it is Jesus' word I am talking about.

If you are speaking of teh bible than please do so, now if it is what christ has said than do so, they are not necessarily one and teh same,

1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

If he says its not Jesus it aint jesus.

You don't make sense at all. You seem to just making excuses for ignoring Jesus' word.

No one is Ignoring what Christ has spoken.

We all sin that is why there is grace,

Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Grace was given because we are Human, it is not a sin to be human even if some think it might be.

If we try it is enough.

In all His Love

 

[OzSpen]

You don't make sense at all. You seem to just making excuses for ignoring Jesus' word.

Just because we are not sinless or perfect does not make it right to disregard Jesus' word.

It is not about us, it is Jesus' word I am talking about.

Could it be that it is not making sense because there is more to Scripture than loving God and loving our neighbours and you are not recognising that?

 

[StanJ]

Stan,

This thread began with this statement from The Nicene Creed, 'I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins'.

Could we glean support for this statement from these verses?

Rom 6:3-4 (ESV), '3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life'. Douglas Moo, in his commentary on Romans, considers that 'burial with Christ' in this passage
Gal 3:27 (ESV), 'For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ'.

Eph 4:5 (ESV), 'one Lord, one faith, one baptism'.

Col 2:12 (ESV), 'having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead'.

1 Peter 3:20-21 (ESV), 'because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ'.

I consider that Douglas Moo's explanation of Romans 6:3-4 (ESV) is an excellent one in describing the issue that is summarised in The Nicene Creed, 'I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins'. There is adequate biblical evidence to support such a view.

I do not have the time to investigate the other verses in support of this view. However, Col 2:12 (ESV) is a strong parallel verse

Oz

Hi Oz,

I quoted the Creed above so this is how I understand it. I don't know where the wording you quote comes from, but in any event I don't have a problem with it as I stated. As far as Moo is concerned I'm a little less than enthused with him these days given some of the things I have read that are apparently from him, but I can't really question or debate him so I choose to want to get input from those who actually are posting and not from other commentators. I have great respect for his translation work but feel his own personal theology clouds his view of what scripture conveys.

 

[OzSpen]

Hi Oz,

I quoted the Creed above so this is how I understand it. I don't know where the wording you quote comes from, but in any event I don't have a problem with it as I stated. As far as Moo is concerned I'm a little less than enthused with him these days given some of the things I have read that are apparently from him, but I can't really question or debate him so I choose to want to get input from those who actually are posting and not from other commentators. I have great respect for his translation work but feel his own personal theology clouds his view of what scripture conveys.

Stan,

All of us suffer from the intrusion of our own theology - not just Douglas Moo. That's why we need one another as iron sharpening iron. But we need to be open to such sharpening.

Oz

 

[Joyful]

Could it be that it is not making sense because there is more to Scripture than loving God and loving our neighbours and you are not recognising that?

We cannot be wrong if we focus on what Jesus says. Jesus did not miss anything to teach us how to inherit God's kingdom.

He is the Lord of salvation.

 

[Joyful]

If you are speaking of teh bible than please do so, now if it is what christ has said than do so, they are not necessarily one and teh same,

1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

If he says its not Jesus it aint jesus.


No one is Ignoring what Christ has spoken.

We all sin that is why there is grace,

Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Grace was given because we are Human, it is not a sin to be human even if some think it might be.

If we try it is enough.

In all His Love

I am afraid you are continually ignoring His word to justify your doctrine. If you cannot harmonize with Jesus' word, your faith is perverted.

 

[OzSpen]

We cannot be wrong if we focus on what Jesus says. Jesus did not miss anything to teach us how to inherit God's kingdom.

He is the Lord of salvation.

On that I agree with you.

However, you have moved the goalposts from loving God and loving your neighbour. I'm indeed pleased that you are seeing Jesus' commands as much broader than what you originally indicated.

 

[DogLady19]

Joyful,

The point is that Jesus is clearly teaching his disciples (and us) that being his follower isn't about fancy titles and lording authority over others. He is not teaching that there are none who function as teachers in the body of Christ. Clearly there are dozens of passages that show that not only does the Church have teachers, but that it is a very important role that should be taken seriously. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit empowers some to function as teachers. Therefore, not only should we listen to teachers, but we should recognize that they are one of the ways in which the Holy Spirit edifies the Church. It is wise to learn from godly teachers in the past and present, and arrogant to think that no one else has anything to teach you about living the Christian life or understanding the Scriptures.

Again, the point here is that God uses teachers and we should listen to them. Yet, teachers that seek after titles, power and lording authority over others is inconsistent with the teaching of Christ and no one should seek the role of being a teacher for the sake of vain self-glory and titles. Make sense?

Well put! Thank you...

As the book of John points out, sheep recognize the voice of their shepherd... We need to listen to teachers, but we should be so devoted to knowing Jesus' voice that we recognize a false teacher when we hear one.

 

[Joyful]

As the book of John points out, sheep recognize the voice of their shepherd... We need to listen to teachers,

You need to reread my beginning of this thread. You are restarting all over.

 

[StanJ]

Stan,

All of us suffer from the intrusion of our own theology - not just Douglas Moo. That's why we need one another as iron sharpening iron. But we need to be open to such sharpening.

Oz

I totally agree.

 

[ATP]

We cannot be wrong if we focus on what Jesus says. Jesus did not miss anything to teach us how to inherit God's kingdom.

John 3:3, 7.

 

[OzSpen]

We cannot be wrong if we focus on what Jesus says. Jesus did not miss anything to teach us how to inherit God's kingdom.

He is the Lord of salvation.

So, is the remainder of the NT not important for understanding how to inherit God's kingdom?

 

[Joyful]

So, is the remainder of the NT not important for understanding how to inherit God's kingdom?

Why the double talk?

 

[Joyful]

John 3:3, 7.

We are not born again unless we are committed to follow Jesus' teachings.

 

[OzSpen]

Why the double talk?

Another red herring fallacy. Please answer my question.

 

[ATP]

We are not born again unless we are committed to follow Jesus' teachings.

Being born again and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a one time event though.

 

[Joyful]

Being born again and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a one time event though.

Nope, you have to be faithful to Jesus until the end. This is the commitment.

 

[Joyful]

Another red herring fallacy. Please answer my question.

I did, you just don't accept it.

good day.

 

[ATP]

Nope, you have to be faithful to Jesus until the end. This is the commitment.

But Rom 8:38-39 says neither trouble, hardship, persecution, famine, nakedness, danger or sword, death nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate the elect from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ephesians scriptures also says we are sealed until death. God wouldn't contradict himself right? Looks to me that Jesus is faithful to US till the end...

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

- ATP