The NT insists you must obey Jesus to gain eternal life!

[John Zain]

Hebrews 4:14-16, AMP
"Inasmuch then as we have a great High Priest Who has [already] ascended and passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession [of faith in Him].
For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and
have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of
temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.
Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace
(the throne of God’s unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy
[for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need
[appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it]."

1 John 1:7-10, NKJV
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.

Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous!

 

[williemac]

Hebrews 4:14-16, AMP
"Inasmuch then as we have a great High Priest Who has [already] ascended and passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession [of faith in Him].
For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and
have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of
temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.
Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace
(the throne of God’s unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy
[for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need
[appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it]."

1 John 1:7-10, NKJV
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.

Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous!

You keep repeating this error and I will keep correcting it. Throughout the whole bible, all have sinned and fall short of God's glory and there is NONE righteous. Then in the new testament, it is revealed that righteousness is a GIFT. (Rom.5:15-19.) And vs.19 reveals that it is by ONE Man's obedience that we are made righteous. Get it? We are not righteous because of our own obedience but rather because of His obedience. Obedience to what? THE LAW!!

How do we know this? Phil 3:9--"..and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law,, but that which is through faith in Christ...THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS FROM GOD BY FAITH"

Therefore since righteousness comes as a gift through faith, then it can only be maintained the same way it came. If it is maintained by continual confession and repentance, then we are in for a rough ride throughout our christian walk. What happens if a person dies with unconfessed sin in his life? You want to open up that can of worms? Nowhere in 1John can we determine that righteousness is 'maintained' by confessing and repenting of sin. NOWHERE! You are adding that conclusion into the text, either by your own doing or by what you have been taught.

Forgiveness of sin comes from the acknowledgment of it and the confession of it. At this point the person is cleansed from all unrighteousness. Your version is that one is cleansed only from past unrighteousness. How then is it that we have been perfected forever, as I shared from Hebrews in my previous post?

1John 1:6-10 is the explanation of a principle regarding salvation. It is a one time event whereby we are given everlasting life, as Jesus promised in John 5:24. Further to that promise, He assured us that we will NOT come into judgment, but HAVE PASSED from death to life.

If we take 1John 1:9 as something that is to be repeated, then we have to conclude that forgiveness is not applicable to future sin, but is reduced to a maintenance program for forgiveness. Therefore we have to conclude that the believer flows in and out of life, righteousness, forgiveness, and salvation, based on his behavior, and needs to keep going to God over and over to get them re-instated. However, Heb.6:1-6 tells us in no uncertain terms that life is granted only ONE TIME and if lost, it is impossible to get it back. So much for your interpretation of 1John 1:9. If one fails to "maintain" his righteousness for a week or two, does this mean he lost it altogether? So much for all the other passages, many which I have shared in my last post and this one, that say otherwise.

Your problem is possibly that you don't believe or maybe don't trust the good news. You have been duped! I usually don't like to make things personal, but can only suspect and assume that you have been confessing and repenting of your sins over and over out of a fearful expectation of judgment, as Heb.10:27 suggests. But this passage is in the context of having no more sacrifice for sin. And as I shared, this happens through the rejection of the sacrifice offered by Jesus. Putting two and two together, I must ask...have you accepted the sacrifice of Jesus for your sin?...or NOT! just asking....

Did Adam and Eve cover their nakedness themselves, or did God do it for them? You want to do His job? knock yourself out. But if you continue to peddle this leaven to the church, I will continue to oppose it.

Ironically, you began your reply with Heb.4:14-16, where we are told to continue our confession OF FAITH...then you run off to another place and proceed to continue your confession of sin over and over and over and over andoverandoverandoverandoverand (to be continued) :blink:

You keep repeating this error and I will keep correcting it. Throughout the whole bible, all have sinned and fall short of God's glory and there is NONE righteous. Then in the new testament, it is revealed that righteousness is a GIFT. (Rom.5:15-19.) And vs.19 reveals that it is by ONE Man's obedience that we are made righteous. Get it? We are not righteous because of our own obedience but rather because of His obedience. Obedience to what? THE LAW!!

How do we know this? Phil 3:9--"..and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law,, but that which is through faith in Christ...THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS FROM GOD BY FAITH"

Therefore since righteousness comes as a gift through faith, then it can only be maintained the same way it came. If it is maintained by continual confession and repentance, then we are in for a rough ride throughout our christian walk. What happens if a person dies with unconfessed sin in his life? You want to open up that can of worms? Nowhere in 1John can we determine that righteousness is 'maintained' by confessing and repenting of sin. NOWHERE! You are adding that conclusion into the text, either by your own doing or by what you have been taught.

Forgiveness of sin comes from the acknowledgment of it and the confession of it. At this point the person is cleansed from all unrighteousness. Your version is that one is cleansed only from past unrighteousness. How then is it that we have been perfected forever, as I shared from Hebrews in my previous post?

1John 1:6-10 is the explanation of a principle regarding salvation. It is a one time event whereby we are given everlasting life, as Jesus promised in John 5:24. Further to that promise, He assured us that we will NOT come into judgment, but HAVE PASSED from death to life.

If we take 1John 1:9 as something that is to be repeated, then we have to conclude that forgiveness is not applicable to future sin, but is reduced to a maintenance program for forgiveness. Therefore we have to conclude that the believer flows in and out of life, righteousness, forgiveness, and salvation, based on his behavior, and needs to keep going to God over and over to get them re-instated. However, Heb.6:1-6 tells us in no uncertain terms that life is granted only ONE TIME and if lost, it is impossible to get it back. So much for your interpretation of 1John 1:9. If one fails to "maintain" his righteousness for a week or two, does this mean he lost it altogether? So much for all the other passages, many which I have shared in my last post and this one, that say otherwise.

Your problem is possibly that you don't believe or maybe don't trust the good news. You have been duped! I usually don't like to make things personal, but can only suspect and assume that you have been confessing and repenting of your sins over and over out of a fearful expectation of judgment, as Heb.10:27 suggests. But this passage is in the context of having no more sacrifice for sin. And as I shared, this happens through the rejection of the sacrifice offered by Jesus. Putting two and two together, I must ask...have you accepted the sacrifice of Jesus for your sin?...or NOT! just asking....

Did Adam and Eve cover their nakedness themselves, or did God do it for them? You want to do His job? knock yourself out. But if you continue to peddle this leaven to the church, I will continue to oppose it.

Ironically, you began your reply with Heb.4:14-16, where we are told to continue our confession OF FAITH...then you run off to another place and proceed to continue your confession of sin over and over and over and over andoverandoverandoverandoverand (to be continued) :blink:
(FYI, the confession of faith is found in Rom.10:9,10)

 

[Webers_Home]

BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their
righteousness before God.

Thanks be to Christ's crucifixion that it isn't a born-again Christian's own
personal righteousness that gets them a pass into the kingdom of God; but
rather: the imputation of Christ's righteousness that does the trick. (Rom
5:16-19). You know, watching some of these anti-BACs presuming
themselves qualified to teach Christianity would be humorous if it weren't
so demonic.

Now, that issue being settled; I'm going to parse 1John 1:6-7 in order to
highlight something that's very important to my fellow born-again
Christians. You anti-BACs can look on if you like but just so you know:
nothing I'm going to say is for your benefit. This is strictly family.

"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie,
and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we
have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
cleanseth us from all sin"

The pronouns "we" and "us" indicate both the author and the people to
whom his epistle was penned; which, according to 1John 5:13 was a group
of believers who were already in possession of eternal life before the letter
arrived, so his letter wasn't meant to evangelize them; no, it was meant to
strengthen their reliance upon Christ's crucifixion-- just the opposite of
what the anti-BACs are up to on this thread. Their goal is to weaken
believers' reliance upon Christ's crucifixion rather than strengthen it.

In addition; those believers, with whom John identified himself, were not
only in possession of eternal life before his letter arrived; but according to
1John 3:1-2, they were members of God's family; viz: they were siblings for
whom John was a nurturing guardian; viz: a man Spirit-enabled to instruct,
counsel, and guide the Father's children placed in his care; which is why
John called them "my" little children at 1John 2:1.

The koiné Greek word for "fellowship" is koinonia (koy-nohn-ee'-ah) which
never, ever, means righteousness. No; it simply means (literally)
participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction.

In other words: the Father's children don't confess their sins in order to evade
hell and the wrath of God and keep their place in the family, but instead; to
maintain a mutually profitable, working relationship with the family's paterfamilias.

BTW: If you have access to an Englishman's Concordance; plug Strong's
Greek number 2842 into it and see where else, and how else, koinonia is
applied in the New Testament. It's a pretty versatile word.

Buen Camino
/

 

[FHII]

I agree with everything you said Buen, well done!

I see the possibility of people rebutting your post in two different ways with the same goal in mind. First they will claim they're not "anti-BAC". They'll say the love BAC and are giving warning for their benefit. In a sense, if you are not telling the Truth about God to BAC, then you are against them.... So in that sense you may be right. Certainly, they are anti-grace through faith, otherwise they would've mentioned it.

The second way they will come at your post is by quoting one or several scriptures talking about repentance and/or confession. Yes, those things are needed, but just once if done properly. People too often look to repent from each individual sin and try to stop doing each individual sin (or at least the ones they feel are most important). This is an impossible and fruitless task. What they don't realize is that you can repent from your life without Christ Jesus in it and turn to him. This doesn't mean you will stop sinning or being a sinner, but it does mean they are forgiven once for all (past, present and future) and you are made righteous by him.

Either way they come at it, the goal will be to evade all the other points you made. In other words, forcusing on 10% of what you said that they believe they can debate instead of 90% of what they can't.

 

[John Zain]

Most BACs are ignorant of the fact that throughout the Scriptures ...
the Lord God has desired, asked for, demanded, expected, etc.
man to co-operate with Him in His endeavors on earth.

The doctrine of grace with no accountability is from the very pits of hell.

 

[williemac]

The above commen

Most BACs are ignorant of the fact that throughout the Scriptures ...
the Lord God has desired, asked for, demanded, expected, etc.
man to co-operate with Him in His endeavors on earth.

The doctrine of grace with no accountability is from the very pits of hell.

Accountability is not the same as qualification for life. Our children are accountable you us. Do we use this accountability to determine if they will remain our children?

No one has ever disputed the concept of accountability. Neither has anyone suggested a grace without accountability scenario.

Accountability is precisely why there is a judgment seat of Christ for believers only. Jesus will review each life lived in Him. However, as the bible assures us, this seat is not for the purpose of condemning anyone. It is to give or take away the rewards that are available to us in eternity.

Furthermore, Jesus reserves the right to chasten those whom He loves. This is proof of accountability. This is how one is accountable as a child of God while at the same time not given any cause for boasting in his salvation. And this is how grace and accountability reside together. One does not "trump" the other one. This is not like a "paper covers rock" game. Accountability cannot overrule grace. But in your world, it does, because you have attached qualification for salvation to it.

You have the correct exhortation, but the wrong motivation. "He who seeks to save his own life will lose it". We are not trying to save ourselves with our behavior or moral obedience. God has not instructed us to do so. I plead with you to stop provoking us to do so. You are kicking against the goads, my brother.

Learn what Paul meant when he said that those who are born according to the flesh persecute those who are born according to the spirit (Gal.4:29). He was speaking in the context of the two sons of Abraham. The first one represents Adam's attempt to "help" God fulfill His promise. The second one represents the truth that God does not need our help to fulfill His promise. When will you simply rest in His promise, and leave alone those who are doing that?

 

[Webers_Home]

.
What the anti-BACs don't seem to realize is that the New Testament's
epistles weren't written for the world at large. No, they were written
specifically for local assemblies of BACs. Why is that important? Well; only
the people for whom the epistles were written can interpret and/or apply
them properly because they're penned in a divine code, so to speak.

†. 1Cor 2:13-15 . .This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human
wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in
spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that
come from the Spirit of God, for they are absurd to him, and he cannot
understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The anti-BACs think they can understand the epistles when they're
translated into their native tongue just because they have a command of
their native tongue. But that's just it. The very words that reveal the mind
of God also serve to conceal it from prying eyes. As I said in post #28, the
eyes of one's heart are different than the eyes of one's mind. In other words:
the Spirit spoken of in 1Cor 2:13-15 enables BACs to decipher divine code
intuitively and thus see things in the Bible that the anti-BACs cannot see:
that even if they could see; wouldn't buy into them; which is just as well
seeing as how the mind of God is of no practical use to them anyway.

BTW: Buen Camino isn't my name. It's a greeting extended to pilgrims
trekking the El Camino de Santiago de Compostela across northern Spain. I
picked it up from Emilio Esteves' movie "The Way" starring his father Martin
Sheen, who plays an eye doctor whose son was killed by a storm on the
French side of the Pyrenees during his first night out on the Camino.

Cliff
/

 

[williemac]

Thanks be to Christ's crucifixion that it isn't a born-again Christian's own
personal righteousness that gets them a pass into the kingdom of God; but
rather: the imputation of Christ's righteousness that does the trick. (Rom
5:16-19).

I'm going to parse 1John 1:6-7 in order to
highlight something that's very important to my fellow born-again
Christians.
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie,
and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we
have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
cleanseth us from all sin"

The pronouns "we" and "us" indicate both the author and the people to
whom his epistle was penned; which, according to 1John 5:13 was a group
of believers who were already in possession of eternal life before the letter
arrived, so his letter wasn't meant to evangelize them; no, it was meant to
strengthen their reliance upon Christ's crucifixion-- just the opposite of
what the anti-BACs are up to on this thread. Their goal is to weaken
believers' reliance upon Christ's crucifixion rather than strengthen it.

In addition; those believers, with whom John identified himself, were not
only in possession of eternal life before his letter arrived; but according to
1John 3:1-2, they were members of God's family; viz: they were siblings for
whom John was a nurturing guardian; viz: a man Spirit-enabled to instruct,
counsel, and guide the Father's children placed in his care; which is why
John called them "my" little children at 1John 2:1.

The koiné Greek word for "fellowship" is koinonia (koy-nohn-ee'-ah) which
never, ever, means righteousness. No; it simply means (literally)
participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction.

In other words: the Father's children don't confess their sins in order to evade
hell and the wrath of God and keep their place in the family, but instead; to
maintain a mutually profitable, working relationship with the family's paterfamilias.

BTW: If you have access to an Englishman's Concordance; plug Strong's
Greek number 2842 into it and see where else, and how else, koinonia is
applied in the New Testament. It's a pretty versatile word.

Buen Camino
/

I usually enjoy your commentaries, but in this case I think you missed something. You are making your point beginning at verse 6. However, the letter did not being there. John began by using a third pronoun as well as "we" and "us". He used "you". In vs.3, he declared "that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us".

I am on your side in this debate. But speaking to and replying to you as family, I must insist that 1John 1:9 is not an instruction to the believer to confess sin over and over again to get forgiveness over and over again.

I know that yourself and many will also agree that this is not a "keep your salvation" verse, but the problem is that the wording is being ignored in the process. It specifically says that by the confession of sin, one receives forgiveness for it and is cleansed from all unrighteousness. Why are so many not willing to just read it for what it says?

I do not agree with passing off the wording as irrelevant and instead attaching a meaning to the verse that does not line up with the wording, just to hang on to this idea that we are to continually confess our sin to God.

Instead, I would rather keep the wording intact and allow for the option that this is merely an explanation of the concept of the importance of conviction and acknowledgment of sin in order to be saved. In that era, there was a gnostic influence that he was aware of. It is common knowledge that He wrote to address some of its error...one of which is that there is no such thing as sin.

Paul, in Rom.10:9,10 tells them what they must to to be saved. However, they were already in the family of God, as he addressed them as such. So they were not being instructed to do something they had not already done and were doing. He was merely teaching them a concept. I maintain that John was doing the same. In the very next chapter, He outlines what happens to a believer who sins. The advocate does not require our confession....does He?

If we are to confess sin to God for other reasons than to get forgiven, then how is it that no other place in scripture mentions it? People are breaking basic a rule of thumb in scripture interpretation by forming a doctrine that is based on one verse in the bible and not supported anywhere else. Please consider this, brother.
(Oh, I see you have another reply that I never knew of. I will read it now) Blessings.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

.
What the anti-BACs don't seem to realize is that the New Testament's
epistles weren't written for the world at large. No, they were written
specifically for local assemblies of BACs. Why is that important? Well; only
the people for whom the epistles were written can interpret and/or apply
them properly because they're penned in a divine code, so to speak.

†. 1Cor 2:13-15 . .This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human
wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in
spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that
come from the Spirit of God, for they are absurd to him, and he cannot
understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The anti-BACs think they can understand the epistles when they're
translated into their native tongue just because they have a command of
their native tongue. But that's just it. The very words that reveal the mind
of God also serve to conceal it from prying eyes. As I said in post #28, the
eyes of one's heart are different than the eyes of one's mind. In other words:
the Spirit spoken of in 1Cor 2:13-15 enables BACs to decipher divine code
intuitively and thus see things in the Bible that the anti-BACs cannot see:
that even if they could see; wouldn't buy into them; which is just as well
seeing as how the mind of God is of no practical use to them anyway.

BTW: Buen Camino isn't my name. It's a greeting extended to pilgrims
trekking the El Camino de Santiago de Compostela across northern Spain. I
picked it up from Emilio Esteves' movie "The Way" starring his father Martin
Sheen, who plays an eye doctor whose son was killed by a storm on the
French side of the Pyrenees during his first night out on the Camino.

Cliff
/

Who are the "anti-BAC's"? Assuming it stands for "born again Christian" who is suggesting that Christians are not born again? Do you have to make up things about your opponents to win an argument?

 

[williemac]

Who are the "anti-BAC's"? Assuming it stands for "born again Christian" who is suggesting that Christians are not born again? Do you have to make up things about your opponents to win an argument?

In his defense, I have to wonder if you have considered his other replies or even read them, as they give more evidence as to his sentiment than what the one reply can do by itself. None of us repeat 'everything' we already said. For example, here is another thing he said:
Thanks be to Christ's crucifixion that it isn't a born-again Christian's own
personal righteousness that gets them a pass into the kingdom of God; but
rather: the imputation of Christ's righteousness that does the trick. (Rom
5:16-19). (amen to that) You know, watching some of these anti-BACs presuming
themselves qualified to teach Christianity would be humorous if it weren't
so demonic.

His term "anti Bac's", though it is an unfortunate shortcut to a longer handle, has a context if you know his language: more to do with those who are invalidating the assurances concerning those who are born again, and more to do with those who are attempting to put born again Christians into bondage of works/righteousness. I like many of your posts and many of his as well. Just wanting to make some peace, here. And in that light, I want to express my disappointment at his use of the word "demonic". We all could do well to slow down and not take ourselves so seriously. None of us own the truth. Cheers and blessings to both of you .

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

In his defense, I have to wonder if you have considered his other replies or even read them, as they give more evidence as to his sentiment than what the one reply can do by itself. None of us repeat 'everything' we already said. For example, here is another thing he said:
Thanks be to Christ's crucifixion that it isn't a born-again Christian's own
personal righteousness that gets them a pass into the kingdom of God; but
rather: the imputation of Christ's righteousness that does the trick. (Rom
5:16-19). (amen to that) You know, watching some of these anti-BACs presuming
themselves qualified to teach Christianity would be humorous if it weren't
so demonic.

His term "anti Bac's", though it is an unfortunate shortcut to a longer handle, has a context if you know his language: more to do with those who are invalidating the assurances concerning those who are born again, and more to do with those who are attempting to put born again Christians into bondage of works/righteousness. I like many of your posts and many of his as well. Just wanting to make some peace, here. And in that light, I want to express my disappointment at his use of the word "demonic". We all could do well to slow down and not take ourselves so seriously. None of us own the truth. Cheers and blessings to both of you .

Your explanation is appreciated, but goes further to prove my appraisal was correct. To say that those who believe that salvation can be forfeited are "anti born again Christians" is an openly hostile invective and misrepresentation of rhetorical opponents. I'm confident that I've rightly characterized williemac's tactics and that seeing more of his posts will only further corroborate my initial assessment.

 

[Webers_Home]

I want to express my disappointment at his use of the word "demonic".

Paul testified that in the last days; some would abandon the faith; and follow
deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. (1Tim 4:1). Now, I don't
know about you; but I am not ready to pin that label on myself. So then, in
the interest of maintaining my integrity; I'm obligated to pin it on people
who disagree with me. That's called being consistent in your beliefs. In other
words: if you do not sincerely believe in your heart that people are going to
hell unless they believe the way you do; then maybe you ought to be
shopping around for some beliefs that you can actually believe in.

None of us own the truth.

Now you have a very serious problem on your hands; and here's why.

†. 1Pet 4:11 . . If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God

Oracles are spoken words as opposed to written words. In other words:
Peter isn't talking about quoting the Bible; he's talking about expounding it.
What that means is: if you don't sincerely believe yourself speaking for God
on the internet when you discuss the Bible, then you need to sit down and
shut up; and stop preaching your own opinions and feelings as if you know
what you're talking about.

Buen Camino
/

 

[John Zain]

Still haven't noticed any comment on my latest entry in my long list
entitled "VERSES VERSUS OSAS", which is presented in post #39.

The entry has to do with Revelation 13 & 14 ...
which threatens everyone with hell fire who takes the mark of the beast.

Yes, if a BAC chooses to NOT be a MARTYR, he will lose his eternal life!

Just another proof-text against OSAS ... BORING!

I am composing a song entitled, "Martyrdom or Bust".
Anyone wish to see it? ... No, didn't think so.

[SIZE=12pt]

[/SIZE]

 

[williemac]

Paul testified that in the last days; some would abandon the faith; and follow
deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. (1Tim 4:1). Now, I don't
know about you; but I am not ready to pin that label on myself. So then, in
the interest of maintaining my integrity; I'm obligated to pin it on people
who disagree with me. That's called being consistent in your beliefs. In other
words: if you do not sincerely believe in your heart that people are going to
hell unless they believe the way you do; then maybe you ought to be
shopping around for some beliefs that you can actually believe in.


Now you have a very serious problem on your hands; and here's why.

†. 1Pet 4:11 . . If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God

Oracles are spoken words as opposed to written words. In other words:
Peter isn't talking about quoting the Bible; he's talking about expounding it.
What that means is: if you don't sincerely believe yourself speaking for God
on the internet when you discuss the Bible, then you need to sit down and
shut up; and stop preaching your own opinions and feelings as if you know
what you're talking about.

Buen Camino
/

Brother, my heart is to win over those who are deceived. I have no use in using language that will build a wall. What I think and what I say do not necessarily need to be the same. We are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. We can be harsh without personally attacking one another. Sorry I offended you.
As for none of us owning the truth, what I meant is that we are stewards of His truth. What I have I have been given. I was simply suggesting we remember to remain humble. Do we lovingly share what we know or do ram it down each other's throats? As for your personal attack on me (speaking of opinions).... I am not responsible for your state of mind. You can order me around all you wish. How are you going to enforce your demands?

Still haven't noticed any comment on my latest entry in my long list
entitled "VERSES VERSUS OSAS", which is presented in post #39.

The entry has to do with Revelation 13 & 14 ...
which threatens everyone with hell fire who takes the mark of the beast.

Yes, if a BAC chooses to NOT be a MARTYR, he will lose his eternal life!

Just another proof-text against OSAS ... BORING!

You are quite well practiced at 'not noticing' what others are saying to you. For example, reply #46. You have an obvious agenda and are seemingly not in the frame of mind that you might possibly require some correction. This goes much further than the subject of OSAS. You are preaching the wrong message as to how one keeps his salvation. You are placing people in a performance based salvation maintenance program rather than remaining in faith and grace. I pray that you seriously consider what I am showing you from scripture.

Your explanation is appreciated, but goes further to prove my appraisal was correct. To say that those who believe that salvation can be forfeited are "anti born again Christians" is an openly hostile invective and misrepresentation of rhetorical opponents. I'm confident that I've rightly characterized williemac's tactics and that seeing more of his posts will only further corroborate my initial assessment.

I assume you meant Evengelist-7's tactics. It is he you are calling anti-BAC, not me. Thanks for your reply. I get your reasoning.

 

[Webers_Home]

Brother, my heart is to win over those who are deceived.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for anti-BACs like evangelist-7 if I were
you. According to Gal 1:6-9, people like him are outcasts; and according to
2Pet 2:1 and 2Pet 3:16, slated to be destroyed. Though evangelist-7 finds
amusement in what he's doing; his conduct is just as suicidal as somebody
pointing a toy gun at a cop: literally.

Buen Camino
/

 

[John Zain]

Have you boys taken the mark yet?
Or, maybe you missed out 'cause you've been raptured? [SIZE=12pt]

[/SIZE]

 

[williemac]

Have you boys taken the mark yet?
Or, maybe you missed out 'cause you've been raptured? [SIZE=12pt]

[/SIZE]

Mocker! We possess the mark of Jesus. We all buy and sell at this present time. Therefore the mark of the beast is not implemented in the world yet. As well, there is no passage that indicates a Christian is in danger of taking the mark of the beast. Jesus has promised that He would give strength to His own at appropriate times of persecution. Speaking of which, do you have nothing better to do than persecute your own family? Why don't you concentrate your evangelism on they who have not yet believed? Is it because you yourself have not yet believed that everlasting life is a free gift? Apparently not. Keep working for it if you must. But be warned that it is a futile effort. God gives grace to the humble. There will be no possibility for boasting before God. Might as well keep boasting to us while you can....if you must.

 

[John Zain]

This probably will absolutely delight you guys 'n gals ...

This thread OP was banned by one of the Christian forums ... with NO comment, explanation, etc.

Just what are they (and you) afraid of?

Nothing other than spiritual truth, which is way too embarrassing to handle.

 

[williemac]

This probably will absolutely delight you guys 'n gals ...

This thread OP was banned by one of the Christian forums ... with NO comment, explanation, etc.

Just what are they (and you) afraid of?

Nothing other than spiritual truth, which is way too embarrassing to handle.

You have got to be delusional. If you have been paying any attention at all to my posts as well as others, in reply to your "warnings", you will know that we have been afraid for you. You, with or without knowing it, have been attacking faith. You have been playing the same card that the Galatians were rebuked for playing. Having begun in the spirit, they were reverting back to works of law for justification and perfection. The fact that you do not answer to these charges but rather carry on with your agenda with no interest in replying to the presented scriptures, is possibly and likely why you were banned in other places. These forums are intended to be for discussion and debate, neither of which are in your wheelhouse.
The word of God is profitable for correction as long as those hearing it are open to correction.
You have said that you are mixing grace with accountability. Unfortunately there is this little matter of falling from grace. Unfortunately as well, the doctrine you are promoting is an 'embarrassment' to the gospel of grace.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for anti-BACs like evangelist-7 if I were
you. According to Gal 1:6-9, people like him are outcasts; and according to
2Pet 2:1 and 2Pet 3:16, slated to be destroyed. Though evangelist-7 finds
amusement in what he's doing; his conduct is just as suicidal as somebody
pointing a toy gun at a cop: literally.

Buen Camino
/

I know. However, Jesus will not give up on anyone and neither will I. Blind eyes can still be opened. I hope others are praying.

 

[Webers_Home]

I know. However, Jesus will not give up on anyone and neither will I.

In other words: neither you nor Jesus believe in the inspiration of scripture?
You and he just do whatever you want in spite of what the Bible might be
saying? Well; I'm not like that; and I regard the scriptures below as the
mind of God.

†. Gal 1:8 . . But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other
gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As
we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other
gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

†. 2Pet 2:1 . .There were also false prophets among the people, even as
there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive
heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves
swift destruction.

†. 2Pet 3:15-16 . . Our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given
to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of
these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught
and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest
of the Scriptures.

There are people on the internet for whom hell is now a lock. They've breached
the last straw with God and gone past the point of no return. They've sunk to
the level of wild dogs and feral swine to whom Jesus forbids casting your pearls
lest they trample them and turn on you. Well; the more you pity people like
evangelist-7 the more they will mock you; and in case you haven't noticed:
that's exactly what he's been doing. Wake up and smell the coffee, and stop
sinning against the inspiration of scripture.

Buen Camino
/