The NT insists you must obey Jesus to gain eternal life!

[John Zain]

There are multitudes of warning passages that do not blatantly warn of losing eternal life.
Here is one of my favorites:

Matt 7:24-27 • “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them,
I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain
descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house;
and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them,
will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended,
the floods came,and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

“The difference between a true Christian and a false Christian cannot easily be seen …
If our greatest desire is to know Christ and to be like Him, then we are building our
house on the rock … The true Christian is the one who knows Christ and obeys Him.
He hears the words of Christ and puts them into practice (Matt 7:24).
To know Christ is to love Christ. To love Christ is to obey Christ.
He is the one who builds his house upon the rock.”
… The Applied New Testament Commentary, Thomas Hale, ChariotVictor Publishing

More verses to do with obeying Jesus

Heb 5:9 • “And after being perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.”
“It was through His obedience that Jesus became the source of eternal salvation.
In the same way, it is through our obedience to Him that we obtain that salvation.
… Both faith and obedience together are necessary for our salvation.
… It is impossible to separate faith and obedience; they are like two blades of a scissors.
… we are saved through obedience to Christ is the same as saying that
we are saved through faith in Christ” (see Reference above)

Luke 8:21 • “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Luke 11:28 • “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

John 14:15 • “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
John 14:21 • “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
John 14:23 • “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word …”
John 15:14 • “You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”

Rom 6:16-19 • “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are
that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to
righteousness? … so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.”
Paul is saying: “How about being slaves of obedience, instead of being slaves of sin!”

Heb 3:17-18 • “Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned,
whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not
enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?”

James 1:21-22 • “… receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to
save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.”
“The word of God has been planted in us. We need to believe it, accept it, study it, nurture it.
If God’s word grows within us, it will save us. However, if we allow God’s word within us to die,
it will not save us (see Mark 4:14-20).” (see Reference above)
This last part is what the Parable of the Sower is teaching!

1 Pet 1:22 • “Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit …”
IMO, the Spirit told them to obey the gospel and Christ’s commands.

1 John 5:2-3 • “ By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and
keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.”

1 John 3:24 • “Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.”

Warning: put your trust only in the Scriptures and the precious Holy Spirit.

 

[justaname]

It seems you are continually refining your presentations, and choosing your words wiser and wiser. I must say I agree with much of what you have posted I desire to add only it is by His strength and the providing of he Holy Spirt that we are ably to obey.

Those who choose not to obey prove their faith or belief to be a lie. This obedience is to the original gospel and to love. Obedience to the belief that Jesus is the Christ coupled with love for God along with love for others. These must remain throughout the life of the Christian in order to reach the goal of salvation.

My only quibble with this post is the idea of losing eternal life, yet I have beat that dead horse into the ground.

 

[John Zain]

Those who choose not to obey prove their faith or belief to be a lie. This obedience is to the original gospel and to love. Obedience to the belief that Jesus is the Christ coupled with love for God along with love for others.
These must remain throughout the life of the Christian in order to reach the goal of salvation.

My only quibble with this post is the idea of losing eternal life, yet I have beat that dead horse into the ground.

Is it too early in the morning for me, or are you contradicting yourself?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus' commandments are:

• Believe in Christ

[The people] said to [Jesus], 'What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe into him whom he has sent.' John 6:28-29

Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], so walk in him [by faith]. Colossians 2:6

• Love your neighbor as yourself

A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another. As I have loved you, also you love one another. John 13:34

This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keeps his commandments dwells in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit which he has given us. 1 John 3:23-24

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are summed up in this statement: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does not commit evil against a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:9-10

Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12




What are the great commandments of Moses' law?

• Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:36-40

What does it mean to love GOD with all the heart, soul, and mind?

• For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3

• If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

• He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

And what are GOD's commandments?

• This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23

 

[justaname]

Is it too early in the morning for me, or are you contradicting yourself?

No I am not contradicting myself. Though I understand why you might see it that way. Salvation and or soteriology are difficult subjects to comprehend, and is probably the greatest division point or doctrine in the church. Please allow me to explain how I understand the subject and I pray the Holy Spirt in my direction and your reception.

Salvation is an already, not yet condition.
We are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. We can look at it from this perspective; justification, sanctification, and glorification. All who are born again will receive glorification. Those who do not persevere to the end, or finish the race per say, never had salvation to begin with, and thereby were never truly justified. They were never born again, they never were blessed with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

In every case salvation is not an on again off again situation. From God's perspective there are only two type of humans, the saved and the unsaved. Being that God knows the final condition of every creature, He knows exactly who is what we call "saved" before we are even born. Hence the doctrine of election. We humans on the other hand have no idea who is saved and who is not. I have heard it put this way, "It is not like you can lift someone's shirt up and they have a giant E written on their back." The best we can do is attempt to judge the fruit in any individual, yet that at best is only a guesstimate. We never know the truth of faith in any given individual. It must be noted the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is not irrespective of your continuance in the faith. In other words we must persevere to the end to prove our salvation. Here we can look to the parable of the four soils. Only the good soil is what we would call "saved". True one of the soils received the gospel with joy, yet the reception of the gospel was never salvific in nature. They never had salvation only to lose it, they simply "bought some fire insurance" as it were. Never living out the truth of the gospel in their lives, they proved their faith a lie.

Hopefully this clears up my position.

 

[John Zain]

Those who do not persevere to the end, or finish the race per say, never had salvation to begin with, and thereby were never truly justified. They were never born again, they never were blessed with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Pastors will give you examples of BACs who have (for whatever reason)
chucked the whole deal ... and run away from the faith!

And, not coincidentally, the NT has many warnings about this very thing!

 

[williemac]

Pastors will give you examples of BACs who have (for whatever reason)
chucked the whole deal ... and run away from the faith!

And, not coincidentally, the NT has many warnings about this very thing!

The Nt has promises. God has promised that those who remain in faith will not come under judgment (John 5:24). Without faith it is impossible to please God. But what is this word of faith that it talks about? That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead YOU WILL BE SAVED. (Rom.10:9) This is His commandment. Believe in Him and love one another (1John 3:23). If anyone interprets the moral law as being the commandment to everlasting life, he has seriously missed the truth.

So we have the glass half empty vs half full. You say the bible has warnings. I say it has assurances and promises.
I also say that God knows the heart. Any human can observe outwardly what they see as a person walking away from Jesus. But in my experience, what people walk, and even run away from, is the kind of God that anyone would run away from.

The question is therefore, are they running from the real God or just the one that others say He is?

The question is..are they running away from the faith that God has presented to us, or are they running away from a kind of religion that makes people give up because it is too harsh and to unrealistic in its demands and expectations? Are they running away because they have concluded that they are not living up to what they are told it takes to be saved, so they are just being honest and giving up?

Are they running from the real gospel and the real Jesus? The word "gospel" means good news. Do you honestly believe that people run away from good news? We are told that we love Him because He first loved us. Do you honestly believe that people run away from God's LOVE?

What really goes on is that people are told the lie that if there is sin in their lives that they are in danger of losing their salvation. And when they struggle over and over in their life to gain victory but in their heart really know what darkness lies within them (In reality, their flesh), they conclude mistakenly that they are not accepted by God and give up trying. But God knows their heart. He does not judge according to appearances. He gives grace to the humble. The one in Luke 18:10-14 who went away justified was not the one doing everything right. It was he who humbled himself, confessed his sin, and asked for mercy.

The real culprit is false doctrine. The devil is a liar. That is his weapon. That is our enemy. The armor of God protects us from the lies that come against us.

The sad truth is that many make the assumption that it is unconditional grace that causes people to run out and sin. However, the bible says otherwise. It says that the strength of sin is the law. In Rom. 7:5,11, we find that the law stirs up sinful passions and desires. the very lie that I highlighted above is that which holds people in their sin and bondage. The lie that keeping the law is required for everlasting life. (the law says.."don't sin"...or else!)

The truth is that threatening people has never been a successful way to change who and what they are. We are not designed to handle that kind of pressure very well. There is a new and living way, a new system in place to cause people to bear fruit.

The carrot that is dangled in front of the believer is LOVE, not anger or wrath. When I see your posts talking over and over again about threats and warnings....I'm just not seeing or feeling the love, brother...nor the mercy.

If only the world knew of His mercy. Maybe the church first needs to learn of it.

 

[John Zain]

[SIZE=14pt]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/SIZE]
If you … “love the Lord your God with all your heart,
with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength”,
then … “His commandments are not burdensome”.

Don’t forget, Jesus said: “If you love Me, keep My commandments”

Ref: Mark 12:30, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15
[SIZE=14pt]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/SIZE]

 

[justaname]

Pastors will give you examples of BACs who have (for whatever reason)
chucked the whole deal ... and run away from the faith!

And, not coincidentally, the NT has many warnings about this very thing!

Why am I compelled to believe these people were ever born again? Simply because you or some pastor believes they were born again? Can you or these pastors look into the hearts and minds of these so called believers. As far as scripture explains only God can do that.

1Corinthians 4:5
5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

Here I want to ask you, what is your motive for abstaining from sin and or doing good works? Is it part of maintaining your salvation?

Here is something scripture reveals in accordance with what you present about the so called born again Christian.

1John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

 

[williemac]

[SIZE=14pt]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/SIZE]
If you … “love the Lord your God with all your heart,
with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength”,
then … “His commandments are not burdensome”.

Don’t forget, Jesus said: “If you love Me, keep My commandments”

Ref: Mark 12:30, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15
[SIZE=14pt]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/SIZE]

But He didn't say if you want to have everlasting life, keep my commandments. You are saying that. (refer to the title of the op) The NT says if you want eternal life, then humbly submit to the work and sacrifice of Jesus. (faith in Him) , re:John 3:16) You are preaching a self saving gospel, my friend.

We are saved by grace through faith. No man will ever save himself by keeping commandments. The commandment to love one another is not for justification to life. That is not our motivation. We love Him because He first loved us and first saved us. Salvation comes first.
John 5:24 states that through faith in Him, we have passed (past tense) from death to life and will not (future tense) come under judgment. We do not escape judgment by keeping commandments. We are more likely rather, to come under judgment by keeping them.... if it is in the interest of, or motivation for, justification.

You are putting your brothers and sisters in harm's way with this leaven!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Obedience is faith in GOD and loving one's neighbor as one's self.

 

[justaname]

1John 1:6-7
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

[SIZE=12pt]This passage gives us a command to obey, which is to walk in the light. To apply the command is to maintain a striving for moral uprightness and an attitude of humility. By living in this manner we are able to be in true fellowship with God. As it is on our own we are sinful creatures. We must acknowledge our sinfulness and seek to both ask for forgiveness and to avoid sin in our lives. In this we must remember that it is Jesus that cleanses us from all sin, we are only cooperating in the sanctification process. When looking to the Lord’s prayer, which could be seen as a daily prayer, Jesus says, “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.” Given that this is a direct instruction on how to pray, every aspect of that prayer is valid and should be noted in our prayer life and daily walk.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]What I find as key to the discussion here is found in verse 6. We can proclaim anything we like yet not believe it in our hearts, this is simply living a lie. We can claim to be in the light yet our lives prove we are in darkness. Now this walking in the light does nothing for the gaining of salvation nor of securing it. It is simply living the truth of being born again. Also in compliance with the OP and with James 2:14-26 it is nothing to claim something without the practice of that truth in our lives.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]What must be understood is the complete gospel discloses a transformation of the sinner to believer. (2 Corinthians 5:17) The believer purifies himself just as He (God) is pure. (1John 3:3) We are being conformed into the image of Christ. (Romans 8:29, 2 Corinthians 3:18, 1John 3:2) This transformation is completed by God and is the promise given and protected by Him. (Philippians 1:6, Jeremiah 32:40, Hebrews 12:2) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Another interesting thing to note here is:[/SIZE]
From ver. 6 we might have expected, “we have fellowship with him;” and some inferior authorities read μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ. But St. John’s repetitions are not mere repetitions: the thought is always recut or reset to carry us a step further (of. vers. 3, 4). Having fellowship with one another is a sure result of that fellowship with God which is involved in walking in the light. “Here is a reply to those who would restrain Catholic communion to their own sect” (Wordsworth).

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But He didn't say if you want to have everlasting life, keep my commandments. You are saying that. (refer to the title of the op) The NT says if you want eternal life, then humbly submit to the work and sacrifice of Jesus. (faith in Him) , re:John 3:16) You are preaching a self saving gospel, my friend.

We are saved by grace through faith. No man will ever save himself by keeping commandments. The commandment to love one another is not for justification to life. That is not our motivation. We love Him because He first loved us and first saved us. Salvation comes first.
John 5:24 states that through faith in Him, we have passed (past tense) from death to life and will not (future tense) come under judgment. We do not escape judgment by keeping commandments. We are more likely rather, to come under judgment by keeping them.... if it is in the interest of, or motivation for, justification.

You are putting your brothers and sisters in harm's way with this leaven!

Amen

As you received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], walk in him [by faith]. Colossians 2:6

 

[Webers_Home]

Pastors will give you examples of BACs who have (for whatever reason)
chucked the whole deal ... and run away from the faith!

I would have to say that if it were indeed possible for the Lord's sheep to
chuck everything and run away it would reflect very poorly on his
competence as a shepherd. It would also reflect very poorly on the strength
of the hand of God. Jesus would rate as a dime-a-dozen shepherd who can't
be trusted with the safety of a fold, and the sheep would, in reality, be
powerful enough to conquer God; which is highly unlikely.

†. John 10:27-29 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no
one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to
me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's
hand.

People who insist that numbers of the Lord's sheep have been chucking
everything and running away are actually casting a vote of no-confidence in
what the Lord said about himself and about his Father in the statement above.

According to the Bible; a vote of no-confidence in the Lord's statements
has severe consequences.

†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who
disbelieves the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

1John 1:6-7
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie
and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the
Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses
us from all sin.

John's first epistle was penned for a group of believers who were already in
possession of eternal life before his letter arrived.

†. 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

It was those people that John said are members of God's family.

†. 1John 3:1-2 . . How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that
we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! Dear friends,
now we are children of God

Therefore neither 1John 1:6-7 nor 1John 3:1-2 apply to people who haven't as
yet obtained eternal life. In point of fact, according to the Lord's testimony as
an expert witness in all matters pertaining to eternal life; those without it abide
in death.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in
God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Buen Camino
/

 

[ajdiamond]

The way I heard it, you either go to heaven for eternity or go to hell for eternity. Sounds like we already have an eternal existence?

======

Eternal Life is more a substance; than it is a span of time or a reward. If you eat Christ's flesh and drink Christ's blood, you have eternal life. (Jhn 6:54). Eternal Life is something that abides in you, here and now (1Jo 3:15). Eternal Life is in the Father's Son, here and now (1Jo 5:11). Christ is in you, here and now. Abide in Christ in you, here and now, and you have Eternal Life. Christ is Eternal Life.



It would be wise to understand John 5:39-40

You search the scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. Yet, you will not come to Christ (in you, here and now), that you might have that Life.

 

[John Zain]

I would have to say that if it were indeed possible for the Lord's sheep to
chuck everything and run away it would reflect very poorly on his
competence as a shepherd.

I would have to say that thou does not believe in man's free will.
I would have to say that thou has not heard that FREE WILL IS KING!
Maybe you're not hearin' much these days.

The way I heard it, you either go to heaven for eternity or go to hell for eternity.
Sounds like we already have an eternal existence?

Do you need to see the 10 verses which clearly say:
one needs to endure with his faith all the way until his death to have eternal life?
And, of course, we have ample opportunities to stop enduring.
Gee, maybe that's why Paul wrote such warnings as:
work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[justaname]

I would have to say that if it were indeed possible for the Lord's sheep to
chuck everything and run away it would reflect very poorly on his
competence as a shepherd. It would also reflect very poorly on the strength
of the hand of God. Jesus would rate as a dime-a-dozen shepherd who can't
be trusted with the safety of a fold, and the sheep would, in reality, be
powerful enough to conquer God; which is highly unlikely.

†. John 10:27-29 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no
one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to
me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's
hand.

People who insist that numbers of the Lord's sheep have been chucking
everything and running away are actually casting a vote of no-confidence in
what the Lord said about himself and about his Father in the statement above.

According to the Bible; a vote of no-confidence in the Lord's statements
has severe consequences.

†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who
disbelieves the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.



John's first epistle was penned for a group of believers who were already in
possession of eternal life before his letter arrived.

†. 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

It was those people that John said are members of God's family.

†. 1John 3:1-2 . . How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that
we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! Dear friends,
now we are children of God

Therefore neither 1John 1:6-7 nor 1John 3:1-2 apply to people who haven't as
yet obtained eternal life. In point of fact, according to the Lord's testimony as
an expert witness in all matters pertaining to eternal life; those without it abide
in death.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in
God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Buen Camino
/

Yes and John is contrasting those who are in the light against those who are not. Simply because the audience is believers does not mean you cannot give teachings about non-believers within your context.

 

[Webers_Home]

Sounds like we already have an eternal existence?

One of the trickiest elements of Christianity I had to learn as a budding Bible
student back in 1968 is that eternal life has little to do with either one's
existence or one's longevity. For example: baby bats exhibit the instincts of
a bat because they're born with a bat's nature. Likewise baby humans exhibit
the instincts of a human because they're born with a human's nature. The
same holds true for people born of The Spirit as per John 3:3-8. They aren't
born with human nature all over again; but rather, born with divine nature--
the nature of God --which is a huge advantage over the average rank and file
pew warmer and here's why.

†. 1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed
remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

In other words: eternal life, unlike human life, is a sinless kind of life. That's
not to say that born-again Christians are sinless people. I mean; after all,
John wrote that if they say they have no sin, or that they haven't sinned,
they not only deceive themselves and don't know what they're talking
about; but they also insinuate that the Bible isn't true. (1John 1:8-10)

The trick is: when people obtain eternal life, it doesn't replace their human
life. No, born-again Christians retain their human life-- at least for now -
right along with their eternal life; hence John's instructions at 1John 1:8-10.

Note: For the purpose of this post: "instinct" can be defined as intrinsic
behavior as opposed to learned behavior and/or conditioned behavior.

Buen Camino
/

 

[ajdiamond]

Weber: my statement was designed to provoke a possible epiphany for those who think of eternal life as a post-death reward.

Christ is the way, the truth and The Life. Christ is Eternal Life.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you need to see the 10 verses which clearly say:
one needs to endure with his faith all the way until his death to have eternal life?
And, of course, we have ample opportunities to stop enduring.
Gee, maybe that's why Paul wrote such warnings as:
work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

This is true. One must endure to the end. Christ said that in our patient endurance we possess our souls. The implication is that those who don't endure are dispossessed.