The One Baptism

[Marymog]

Mark 1:
[8] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Soooooo, Taken. After John said that what passages in the bible say Christians were baptized with ONLY the Holy Ghost?

I patiently await your response.

Patient Mary

 

[Marymog]

Jesus was speaking of BIRTHS in John 3:5, not Baptisms!

Lol....That theory/interpretation was started by some men AFTER the Protestant Revolution 500 years ago. Maybe you should get back to your Christian roots and read how other men from around 2,000 years ago interpreted John 3:5.

Let us look at a timeline Taken:

John 1:33 Jesus was baptized in water and the Holy Spirit came down upon him.
John 2:1-11: Jesus used water from “six stone jars … for the Jewish rites of purification.” These purification waters were called baptismoi.
John 3:5 Jesus then says to Nicodemus that one must be born again of water and Spirit.
John 3:22-26 Jesus and his disciples go and baptize with water.
John 4: Jesus’ disciples then begin to baptize at Jesus’ command. Jesus associates water with living water giving eternal life.

In the middle of all that (John 3:5) your theory is that Jesus uses water as a reference to birth? Even though in the rest of the book of John it means baptismal water and Spirit. Combine that with after the crucifixion of Jesus the Apostles taught when one is baptized in WATER, they receive the Holy Spirit (just like Jesus did) and their sins are washed away, and they are a new person (born again).

So the theory that your men have taught you that Jesus was "speaking of births" in 3:5 is kind of silly when you look at it in CONTEXT! It doesn't flow with the what happened in John 1-4. Context Taken....Read Scripture with CONTEXT!

Besides that, EVERYONE is born of water soooo to say it relates to "birth" is redundant.

 

[Marymog]

The first 4 paragraphs prove there is a distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

When I resume the OP I will just for you add some more proof of that.

Ok...thank you. I will read/study the first 4 paragraphs again. I may have missed it. If I have any clarifying questions, I will let you know.

Mary

 

[Charlie24]

Ok...thank you. I will read/study the first 4 paragraphs again. I may have missed it. If I have any clarifying questions, I will let you know.

Mary

OK

 

[Wrangler]

...I am 1 of 3 people who have responded to his post and I 'hijacked' it????

Yes, you hijacked it.

What you didn't know is that Charlie told me he was going to start this thread so he and I could have a discussion about spiritual baptism. I was invited. Where you? Me thinks the answer is NO....you were not invited.

I look forward to your apology.

You may have been invited for discussion, not hijacking. But if it'll make you feel better, I am sorry. I am often sorry when I read your posts and sorrier when I get a reply from you about your posts.

 

[Taken]

In the middle of all that (John 3:5) your theory is that Jesus uses water as a reference to birth?

Theory?

John 3:[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Behold]

When Jesus was baptized by John a dove (Holy Spirit) descended upon Him. So we have water AND Spirit which is in correlation to what Jesus said in John 3:5. .

Jesus was not BORN in that water, Marymog.
He was born in a MANGER, after Mary's water broke., and out he came "BORN" the first time.

Jesus was not born again, during John's Baptism, as he was not a sinner needed to be SAVED, Marymog. No dead spirit needing to be born again.
Understand?

The term "born again", is referencing the "New Creation" "in Christ", as that is the dead spirit being born AGAIN.
There is your 2nd BIRTH>

Jesus said, You must be born again.............because you have already been born once, in the NATURAL, =your first birthday..
NOW< your SPIRIT, must have a BIRTH>.......this is "born again"... Spiritually, as you are already born, naturally, in the flesh.

To teach that Jesus was born in the Water, during Baptism, and then Born again Also, in the water when He had no need to be born again at all.

C'mon.

 

[Wrangler]

Theory?

John 3:[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Agreed. "Born of Water" refers to normal child birth, where the beginning of labor is closely tied to 'the water breaking.'

Being born of water is not the same as baptism, which symbolizes death of the old life (going under water) and the emergence of the new life (coming up from the water).

 

[marks]

It is imperative that you understand the only way to discern between the spiritual and water baptisms found in Scripture is by the context of the Scripture!

Here lies the entire problem of the word "Baptism" as we read it in Scripture! Simply put, some are not making that distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

This is what I intend to explore, but I can't in one post, as you can see! So what I will do is give you time to let this sink in, (for the sake of the dreaded long posts) and then come back tomorrow and resume this long road with many intersections!

Don't let anyone hyjack your thread, this is a good one!

Given the fact that "baptizo" does refer to different sorts of baptisms, water, fire, Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, we have to have harmony with all the other passages in order to know which is meant. It has to fit the immediate context, and any related passages, with real harmony. Holding true all the passages that speak to this.

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: The ONE Baptism?:
@Charlie24, appreciate your kindness and encouragement in
many of my other postings.

My question in this one would be: Which ONE is for us today?:

According to God's Context of prophecy and law To Israel:

1) John's [water] baptism for the "remission of sins"?:
+
2) Christ's Baptism "With The Holy Ghost" for power, signs,
and demonstrations, healings, and raising the dead?

OR:

According To God's Other Context Of Mystery And GRACE To:
The Body Of Christ:

3) The ONE Holy Spirit Baptism, Identifying us spiritually With The
ONE Body Of Christ?

4) Or, a combo of 2 or more of these, which, in God's Math, would
not be equal to ONE, for The Body Of Christ, Today, under His Grace?

Grace, Peace, And JOY!

 

[Charlie24]

op: The ONE Baptism?:
@Charlie24, appreciate your kindness and encouragement in
many of my other postings.

My question in this one would be: Which ONE is for us today?:

According to God's Context of prophecy and law To Israel:

1) John's [water] baptism for the "remission of sins"?:
+
2) Christ's Baptism "With The Holy Ghost" for power, signs,
and demonstrations, healings, and raising the dead?

OR:

According To God's Other Context Of Mystery And GRACE To:
The Body Of Christ:

3) The ONE Holy Spirit Baptism, Identifying us spiritually With The
ONE Body Of Christ?

4) Or, a combo of 2 or more of these, which, in God's Math, would
not be equal to ONE, for The Body Of Christ, Today, under His Grace?

Grace, Peace, And JOY!

There will be several parts to this thread, and we can discuss it as we push forward to the identity of the Baptism into Christ.

It is impossible to give this subject its due in just one or two, or even three posts.

I plan to give clear examples from Scripture of four of the seven baptisms found in Scripture.

They are:

The baptism into Christ.

The baptism of John the Baptist.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit./ This one will go into great detail, there is much to be said to understand this baptism, its true roots.

The believers baptism.

 

[marks]

Where "baptism . . . baptisma" appears. (not all passages, I didn't include duplicates)

Luke 12:50 KJV
50) But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Matthew 20:22-23 KJV
22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Matthew 21:25 KJV
25) The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

Mark 1:4 KJV
4) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Ephesians 4:5 KJV
5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12 KJV
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21 KJV
21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The baptism of John, a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Jesus' baptism, seemingly in the sufferings of His passion, to be shared by the disciples.

The baptism of a burial with Jesus Christ, in which we are also risen with Him.

Baptism prefigured in the flood.

Much love!

 

[theefaith]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

First, one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water! A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:11 from John the Baptist.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

John makes a clear distinction of water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second, there are two words used for "Baptism" in the Greek. they are, "baptizo" and "baptizma," the first is used as a verb, the second is used as a noun. A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:5-7,

"5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

In vs. 6, in the bold is "baptizo" the verb, the act of being baptized.

In vs. 7, in the bold is "baptisma" is the noun, the baptism as a thing.

The word "Baptism" is used in Scripture as including the "spiritual baptism" and the "water baptism." There is no reference to separate these baptisms. The only distinction is the use of a verb or a noun. Do you understand this?

It is imperative that you understand the only way to discern between the spiritual and water baptisms found in Scripture is by the context of the Scripture!

Here lies the entire problem of the word "Baptism" as we read it in Scripture! Simply put, some are not making that distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

This is what I intend to explore, but I can't in one post, as you can see! So what I will do is give you time to let this sink in, (for the sake of the dreaded long posts) and then come back tomorrow and resume this long road with many intersections!

you assume that there is a difference between water only baptism and spiritual baptism, but the Christian sacrament of baptism that causes regeneration and justification is by both water and the spirit! Jn 3:5
Water baptism is required for salvation and to receive the spirit and fire and grace! Jn 3:22 Jn 4:1

What is the fire?

 

[Charlie24]

Where "baptism . . . baptisma" appears. (not all passages, I didn't include duplicates)

Luke 12:50 KJV
50) But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Matthew 20:22-23 KJV
22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Matthew 21:25 KJV
25) The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

Mark 1:4 KJV
4) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Ephesians 4:5 KJV
5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12 KJV
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21 KJV
21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The baptism of John, a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Jesus' baptism, seemingly in the sufferings of His passion, to be shared by the disciples.

The baptism of a burial with Jesus Christ, in which we are also risen with Him.

Baptism prefigured in the flood.

Much love!

I intend to cover all of what you have mentioned here, except the baptism that Christ said He was baptized with.

His baptism was one of suffering. If you read Luke 12:49-51, Christ speaks of the great opposition He will face on His way to the Cross.

 

[marks]

I intend to cover all of what you have mentioned here, except the baptism that Christ said He was baptized with.

His baptism was one of suffering. If you read Luke 12:49-51, Christ speaks of the great opposition He will face on His way to the Cross.

To me, the most glib statement in the Bible, the disciples, when Jesus asked them if they are able to share His baptism, "Yes, we are able." I wonder how they felt after they saw what He went through!

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

you assume that there is a difference between water only baptism and spiritual baptism, but the Christian sacrament of baptism that causes regeneration and justification is by both water and the spirit! Jn 3:5
Water baptism is required for salvation and to receive the spirit and fire and grace! Jn 3:22 Jn 4:1

What is the fire?

The fire is the dross of sin taken away by the power of the Holy Spirit, the moment of salvation, and that does not happen in water baptism! We will discuss that also.

The only problem for me is to choose the correct path for greater understanding. That is not easy, I'm still juggling this around.

If it's not presented properly there will be no gain for anyone! Just more of the same arguments that accomplish little.

 

[Charlie24]

To me, the most glib statement in the Bible, the disciples, when Jesus asked them if they are able to share His baptism, "Yes, we are able." I wonder how they felt after they saw what He went through!

Much love!

They were so awed by Christ that it was an honor to be killed in His name.

None of us have had that type relationship with Him. Every word He said to them came true is startling fashion.

They were consumed with Christ and His will for their lives. There is a lesson for us to learn from this.

Christ told Thomas, your believe because you have seen, blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe.

Imagine one who has not seen, and has the intensity as the apostles toward Christ, how valuble that person is to Christ, imagine his reward when he meets His Saviour.

Not that we should work for rewards in mind, but imagine how He will profess that person to the Father.

 

[marks]

The only problem for me is to choose the correct path for greater understanding. That is not easy, I'm still juggling this around.

Use the Scriptures, show the simple connections between the passages. Let the Scriptures speak, it's all there. Keep the goal in mind.

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

It is impossible to give this subject its due in just one or two, or even three posts.

I plan to give clear examples from Scripture of four of the seven baptisms found in Scripture.

The only problem for me is to choose the correct path for greater understanding. That is not easy, I'm still juggling this around.

If it's not presented properly there will be no gain for anyone!

Amen! I have found the very first rule of good Bible study Rules is:

"Do All things Decently And In Order." (1Co 14:40) This I endeavoured
to do when I studied and posted 13 Bible baptisms. (took me 3 posts...)

I will pray for you that you will be encouraged and edified in your
"Grace growth," even as I was Many years ago, when I was Confused
about this very issue, but God Was Gracious, Leading me to His Word
Of Truth, Rightly Divided.

Grace, Peace, And JOY In serving our LORD Jesus Christ!

 

[Marymog]

Theory?

John 3:[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Theory! Opinion! Whatever you want to call it!