The One Baptism

[Charlie24]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

First, one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water! A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:11 from John the Baptist.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

John makes a clear distinction of water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second, there are two words used for "Baptism" in the Greek. they are, "baptizo" and "baptizma," the first is used as a verb, the second is used as a noun. A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:5-7,

"5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

In vs. 6, in the bold is "baptizo" the verb, the act of being baptized.

In vs. 7, in the bold is "baptisma" is the noun, the baptism as a thing.

The word "Baptism" is used in Scripture as including the "spiritual baptism" and the "water baptism." There is no reference to separate these baptisms. The only distinction is the use of a verb or a noun. Do you understand this?

It is imperative that you understand the only way to discern between the spiritual and water baptisms found in Scripture is by the context of the Scripture!

Here lies the entire problem of the word "Baptism" as we read it in Scripture! Simply put, some are not making that distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

This is what I intend to explore, but I can't in one post, as you can see! So what I will do is give you time to let this sink in, (for the sake of the dreaded long posts) and then come back tomorrow and resume this long road with many intersections!

 

[Marymog]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

First, one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water! A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:11 from John the Baptist.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

John makes a clear distinction of water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second, there are two words used for "Baptism" in the Greek. they are, "baptizo" and "baptizma," the first is used as a verb, the second is used as a noun. A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:5-7,

"5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

In vs. 6, in the bold is "baptizo" the verb, the act of being baptized.

In vs. 7, in the bold is "baptisma" is the noun, the baptism as a thing.

The word "Baptism" is used in Scripture as including the "spiritual baptism" and the "water baptism." There is no reference to separate these baptisms. The only distinction is the use of a verb or a noun. Do you understand this?

It is imperative that you understand the only way to discern between the spiritual and water baptisms found in Scripture is by the context of the Scripture!

Here lies the entire problem of the word "Baptism" as we read it in Scripture! Simply put, some are not making that distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

This is what I intend to explore, but I can't in one post, as you can see! So what I will do is give you time to let this sink in, (for the sake of the dreaded long posts) and then come back tomorrow and resume this long road with many intersections!

Thanks for this thread Charlie.

Here is another way to look at baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire:

When Jesus was baptized by John a dove (Holy Spirit) descended upon Him. So we have water AND Spirit which is in correlation to what Jesus said in John 3:5. This water and Spirit also correlates to what Paul said in Acts 2:38, Acts 19, 1 Corinthians 12:13 and what Luke said in Acts 1:5 etc etc. I won't waste my time repeating all the water baptism with Spirit passages...I know you know them already.

So what is this "fire" that John spoke of? Fire is used metaphorically in Scripture as a purifying agent. What are we purified of when we are baptized in/with water? Sin! Just like it says in Acts 2:38, 22:16, Titus 3:5 and 1 Peter 3:21.

In summary: Johns baptism did not wash away sin and did not contain the Holy Spirit. AFTER the water baptism of Jesus Scripture makes it clear that when we confess our faith in Him (belief first) then we are baptized which purifies us (washes away our sin) and we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

There is no such thing as "spiritual baptism"! All baptisms in Scripture include water AND Spirit.....Just like Jesus said in John 3:5.

 

[Charlie24]

Thanks for this thread Charlie.

Here is another way to look at baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire:

When Jesus was baptized by John a dove (Holy Spirit) descended upon Him. So we have water AND Spirit which is in correlation to what Jesus said in John 3:5. This water and Spirit also correlates to what Paul said in Acts 2:38, Acts 19, 1 Corinthians 12:13 and what Luke said in Acts 1:5 etc etc. I won't waste my time repeating all the water baptism with Spirit passages...I know you know them already.

So what is this "fire" that John spoke of? Fire is used metaphorically in Scripture as a purifying agent. What are we purified of when we are baptized in/with water? Sin! Just like it says in Acts 2:38, 22:16, Titus 3:5 and 1 Peter 3:21.

In summary: Johns baptism did not wash away sin and did not contain the Holy Spirit. AFTER the water baptism of Jesus Scripture makes it clear that when we confess our faith in Him (belief first) then we are baptized which purifies us (washes away our sin) and we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

There is no such thing as "spiritual baptism"! All baptisms in Scripture include water AND Spirit.....Just like Jesus said in John 3:5.

We agree on some things, but not on others. I have already shown you there is a spiritual baptism apart from water.

My intensions are to further expound on that fact!

If you can't accept the plain truth of what I have already shown you, then this thread will be of none effect in your understanding.

 

[Marymog]

We agree on some things, but not on others. I have already shown you there is a spiritual baptism apart from water.

My intensions are to further expound on that fact!

If you can't accept the plain truth of what I have already shown you, then this thread will be of none effect in your understanding.

Nope, there is no passage, not one, in Scripture that supports Spiritual Baptism. You say that you have already shown me but I sincerely do not recall you giving ONE passage that supports Spiritual Baptism.

Please repeat the passage(s) that support Spiritual Baptism.

Thank you.

 

[Charlie24]

Nope, there is no passage, not one, in Scripture that supports Spiritual Baptism. You say that you have already shown me but I sincerely do not recall you giving ONE passage that supports Spiritual Baptism.

Please repeat the passage(s) that support Spiritual Baptism.

Thank you.

The first 4 paragraphs prove there is a distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

When I resume the OP I will just for you add some more proof of that.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

First, one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water! A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:11 from John the Baptist.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

John makes a clear distinction of water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second, there are two words used for "Baptism" in the Greek. they are, "baptizo" and "baptizma," the first is used as a verb, the second is used as a noun. A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:5-7,

"5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

In vs. 6, in the bold is "baptizo" the verb, the act of being baptized.

In vs. 7, in the bold is "baptisma" is the noun, the baptism as a thing.

The word "Baptism" is used in Scripture as including the "spiritual baptism" and the "water baptism." There is no reference to separate these baptisms. The only distinction is the use of a verb or a noun. Do you understand this?

It is imperative that you understand the only way to discern between the spiritual and water baptisms found in Scripture is by the context of the Scripture!

Here lies the entire problem of the word "Baptism" as we read it in Scripture! Simply put, some are not making that distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

This is what I intend to explore, but I can't in one post, as you can see! So what I will do is give you time to let this sink in, (for the sake of the dreaded long posts) and then come back tomorrow and resume this long road with many intersections!

Good points. My own take from this is that typically the NT finds in Christ a spiritual application as opposed to the over-literalization of OT ceremonial practices. Whereas someone would in the OT offer an animal for sacrifice, in the NT we offer up "spiritual sacrifices." Whereas in the OT Jews would approach a literal temple, in the NT we find in Christ the true temple, displacing the old one, which failed along with the covenant of Law.

So Jesus was baptized with water as an example of how Christians engage in an initiation ceremony, making public a commitment they had already made to Christ. It did not cleanse us via the ritual, but rather, the ritual represented the cleansing we get spiritually when we embrace Christ.

In the OT it was no different. All of the OT rituals were designed to be spiritual. And without this, all of the worship was pure rote worship, lacking faith.

When we get baptized in water in the NT, we are celebrating our commitment to Christ, which is our real spiritual baptism. The water baptism merely represents us being *baptized into Christ.*

Pentecostals, such as I am, believe that along with this Spirit Baptism comes a number of spiritual gifts, demonstrating that we truly have been joined to Christ and that he is living his spiritual life through us. It isn't just tongues--I don't believe all have tongues. But it is a number of knowledge and power gifts that enable us not just to live like Christ but also to minister Christ's life to others.

 

[Charlie24]

Good points. My own take from this is that typically the NT finds in Christ a spiritual application as opposed to the over-literalization of OT ceremonial practices. Whereas someone would in the OT offer an animal for sacrifice, in the NT we offer up "spiritual sacrifices." Whereas in the OT Jews would approach a literal temple, in the NT we find in Christ the true temple, displacing the old one, which failed along with the covenant of Law.

So Jesus was baptized with water as an example of how Christians engage in an initiation ceremony, making public a commitment they had already made to Christ. It did not cleanse us via the ritual, but rather, the ritual represented the cleansing we get spiritually when we embrace Christ.

In the OT it was no different. All of the OT rituals were designed to be spiritual. And without this, all of the worship was pure rote worship, lacking faith.

When we get baptized in water in the NT, we are celebrating our commitment to Christ, which is our real spiritual baptism. The water baptism merely represents us being *baptized into Christ.*

Pentecostals, such as I am, believe that along with this Spirit Baptism comes a number of spiritual gifts, demonstrating that we truly have been joined to Christ and that he is living his spiritual life through us. It isn't just tongues--I don't believe all have tongues. But it is a number of knowledge and power gifts that enable us not just to live like Christ but also to minister Christ's life to others.

Very well said, Randy! This knowledge didn't come from hanging out on the boards, it came from advanced research with a heart for the truth!

We will have some here and already shown to be true, who will not even accept the spiritual aspect of baptism plainly taught in Scripture. Sad to say, they are the ones left behind in knowledge.

Christ simply walked away from them, I'm afraid we will have to do the same. But there are more out there who will listen, the reason you and I and others are here!

 

[Taken]

There is no such thing as "spiritual baptism"! All baptisms in Scripture include water AND Spirit.....Just like Jesus said in John 3:5.

Jesus was speaking of BIRTHS in John 3:5, not Baptisms!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Very well said, Randy! This knowledge didn't come from hanging out on the boards, it came from advanced research with a heart for the truth!

We will have some here and already shown to be true, who will not even accept the spiritual aspect of baptism plainly taught in Scripture. Sad to say, they are the ones left behind in knowledge.

Christ simply walked away from them, I'm afraid we will have to do the same. But there are more out there who will listen, the reason you and I and others are here!

Yes I know. Thanks for your kind comments. I can tell you've been "baptized into Christ!"

 

[Taken]

Nope, there is no passage, not one, in Scripture that supports Spiritual Baptism. You say that you have already shown me but I sincerely do not recall you giving ONE passage that supports Spiritual Baptism.

Please repeat the passage(s) that support Spiritual Baptism.

Thank you.

Mark 1:
[8] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

1 Cor 15:
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

[Wrangler]

The first 4 paragraphs prove there is a distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

When I resume the OP I will just for you add some more proof of that.

It's too bad the RCC hijacker took over your thread so quickly.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus was speaking of BIRTHS in John 3:5, not Baptisms!

I believe that water baptism is emblematic of our new birth in Christ.

John 3.5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." 22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized.

 

[Enoch111]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

Let's hope you are not promoting the idea that water baptism is unnecessary. The "one baptism" mentioned in Ephesians does not cancel the other baptism mentioned elsewhere, particularly in the book of Acts. Water baptism by immersion -- Christian baptism -- is a commandment of Christ and was faithfully practiced by the apostolic churches. Even Paul (who was not sent to baptize but to preach the Gospel) made sure that even midnight was not too inconvenient for water baptism (see Acts 16).

 

[Randy Kluth]

Let's hope you are not promoting the idea that water baptism is unnecessary. The "one baptism" mentioned in Ephesians does not cancel the other baptism mentioned elsewhere, particularly in the book of Acts. Water baptism by immersion -- Christian baptism -- is a commandment of Christ and was faithfully practiced by the apostolic churches. Even Paul (who was not sent to baptize but to preach the Gospel) made sure that even midnight was not too inconvenient for water baptism (see Acts 16).

I actually believe water baptism was more of a suggestion than a commandment. The commandment had to do with being saved. The water baptism is purely indicative that that has truly taken place. When one makes a public confession, it makes the conversion more real.

There is no ritual work that can get us saved, nor any ritual work that is required for our salvation. The only thing required is that we get baptized *into Christ,* ie that we unite with him spiritually and allow his life to dominate our lives.

Everything else is window dressing, or recommendations, such as water baptism and communion. We know that because Jesus quite specifically said the major element in our salvation is in embracing him spiritually--not rituals that accompany that act. It is faith that saves. The obedience that God requires for salvation is in demonstrating that we have truly made Him Lord of our lives.

 

[Taken]

I believe that water baptism is emblematic of our new birth in Christ.

I believe birth and baptism are two different things.
Same as a seed and birth are two different things.
Same as Order and Way of man and Order and Way of God are two different things.

Order and Way of man IS natural/earthly.
Order and Way of God IS Supernatural/Spiritual.

Related, Yes. Same, No.

John 3.5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." 22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized.[/QUOTE]

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

I actually believe water baptism was more of a suggestion than a commandment.

Not according to Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38,41 and Acts 10:47,48.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I believe birth and baptism are two different things.
Same as a seed and birth are two different things.
Same as Order and Way of man and Order and Way of God are two different things.

Order and Way of man IS natural/earthly.
Order and Way of God IS Supernatural/Spiritual.

Related, Yes. Same, No.

John 3.5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." 22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized.

Glory to God,
Taken[/QUOTE]

I agree. It's the new birth that is critical. Water Baptism is an act of public confession that we are entering into a new phase in our life, putting on Christ and putting to death what is strictly earthly and sinful in us. From henceforth, everything we do is in faith.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Not according to Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38,41 and Acts 10:47,48.

Yes, it can be viewed that way. Based on my Reformation Theology, I see faith as central--not religious rituals. However, Christ did tell his apostles to make converts, "baptizing them." In other words, ensure that they are really making a full commitment.

For me, the emphasis, as I say, is on faith. Getting baptized is peripheral to this, and was the preferred method of Jesus to have new converts express their new faith. But the command is to get "born again." I'm sure God won't cast into Hell those who failed to get water baptized and yet committed themselves wholly to faith, regardless of their doctrine.

To explain further it's like telling a person he needs to get up to church, drive up there, and visit the altar. Nobody would suggest he really needs to do all these things to get saved. But being that it is a reasonable way of getting saved, that's one way to express the need to get saved.

The car, the church, the altar are all modes of getting saved, and are not actually necessary for salvation. Neither is water baptism necessary for salvation. It is just a reasonable mode of expressing the need to get saved.

 

[Charlie24]

Let's hope you are not promoting the idea that water baptism is unnecessary. The "one baptism" mentioned in Ephesians does not cancel the other baptism mentioned elsewhere, particularly in the book of Acts. Water baptism by immersion -- Christian baptism -- is a commandment of Christ and was faithfully practiced by the apostolic churches. Even Paul (who was not sent to baptize but to preach the Gospel) made sure that even midnight was not too inconvenient for water baptism (see Acts 16).

No, I'm certainly not suggesting that water baptism is not necessary!

Water baptism is so closely connected to the baptism into Christ, that the two cannot be separated.

 

[Marymog]

It's too bad the RCC hijacker took over your thread so quickly.

Lol...I am 1 of 3 people who have responded to his post and I 'hijacked' it???? You crack me up Wrangler. Comedy hour has started already.

What you didn't know is that Charlie told me he was going to start this thread so he and I could have a discussion about spiritual baptism. I was invited. Where you? Me thinks the answer is NO....you were not invited.

I look forward to your apology.