The past and future do not exist, the eternal now is all there is.

[St. SteVen]

The sun may never have ever risen. That you can't see that possibility is evidence that your thinking is limited. You only think the sun will rise because you think it's happened before but those are just memories in your brain. Those memories might have been implanted / downloaded to your brain mere seconds ago. All you have are your memories. As Romanov rightly said, you can't go back in time to check things out. Your existence is here and your perceptions are all based on the memories in your brain which are akin to DVD films. You have no way to know whether you can trust those memories.

What do you plan to do tomorrow?

 

[Ziggy]

I beg to differ.

You are the one failing to confront your reality, having to deny your innate rational thinking and reasoning in order to cope with life.
It's easier for you to believe in some ridiculous fantasy because it then makes you feel special and wanted and worthwhile. You have those inherent needs to feel special and wanted because you're afraid to confront reality, which is that you aren't special, you don't matter, just as no-one matters. The universe doesn't "care" about you. It's going to recycle you just as it has already done millions of time.

As Morpheus says in the brilliant file The Matrix:

"You've been living in a dream world"
"It is all around us. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. A prison for your mind."

Have the courage to contemplate that you may have been duped, that you may be wrong.

Have the honesty to use rational critical thinking.

Stop defending abhorrent actions like the sexual abuse of young children by predators. Stop making excuses for it. Stop pretending that it's just part of some great master plan of God. Stop being part of the problem with human society.

Stop pretending. That's what we did as children.

1 Cor 13
"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me"

Yes!

"You've been living in a dream world"
"It is all around us. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. A prison for your mind."

The prison for your mind is the physical world around us.
You have no idea how close you are and yet so far away.
This is the Gospel in a nutshell.
There is only one way to escape this prison and that is believing and accepting the one who created it.
Pro 15:24
The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

Heaven and Hell are not simply concepts. They are "Here"
But you can not experience either of them FULLY while living in a material prison. That is, in your flesh and bones.
We can experience a little of both. We can have Joy, Peace, Comfort, Love. These things are above. They are heavenly and only just a taste of it.
We can have Anger, Depression, Hate, Greed. These things are below. They are hellish to the one experiencing them. But again only just a taste of it.
This is the difference between being carnally minded and spiritually minded.
Time moving up and down rather than linear.
You live in a 3 dimensional prison. God is dimensionless. There are NO boundaries.

Think about this. I mean really take a liitle of "here" to contemplate it's meaning.

Eph 3:14
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18
May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

I'm not asking you to believe it. Just simply think about it.

Hugs

 

[Lapidem]

What do you plan to do tomorrow?

Me? Who is me? There are thought patterns placed in my brain suggesting I will have a lie in and do very little tomorrow but they are just thought patterns just as my perception of yesterday is made of thought patterns. I don't know if I really did what I think I did yesterday. They are merely memories. I have no way to know if those memories are real or some constant stream of data being loaded into my brain.

 

[Lapidem]

We can experience a little of both. We can have Joy, Peace, Comfort, Love. These things are above. They are heavenly and only just a taste of it.
We can have Anger, Depression, Hate, Greed. These things are below. They are hellish to the one experiencing them. But again only just a taste of it.
This is the difference between being carnally minded and spiritually minded.
Time moving up and down rather than linear.
You live in a 3 dimensional prison. God is dimensionless. There are NO boundaries.

They are 2 sides of the same coin. You can not have one without the other. The Christian ideology is one that promises a coin with one side. Universally we know that's utter nonsense. For good to exist, evil must exist for the presence of evil is what defines god as being good.

As I have outlined in another thread, Christians are blindsided by this illusion of the one-sided coin. If you have love in you, real love, then the existence of a hell where people are eternally tortured should be utterly abhorrent to you. The notion that you scarper off to eternal bliss at the expense of millions of others who have eternal hell is just repugnant. You should not accept it. Indeed to accept it and strive for your heaven marks you as one without love. Similar to those globalists who seek only to better themselves at the expense of everyone else.

Where is your head at? Where is your heart at?

How could you ever be happy in heaven if say your best friend here went to hell? How could you tolerate that? Think it through.

The entire proposition is flawed from the outset.

If we wish to eradicate all that is evil and wicked then we must simultaneously eradicate all that is good for they are partners in crime, one needing the other for existence and survival. They must both be eradicated for us to restore the balance of the universe.

The message of God is as much a lie as the message of the Devil. They both want to exist, perpetually. They can only exist together, defining each other. Our only hope for a future is to discard them both.

I will not accept any amount of happiness in life if it necessitates the appalling opposite suffering of another like the sexual rape of a young child. No-one who has any amount of real love in them can tolerate such a situation.

Good AND evil must be extinguished. There must be balance.

 

[Ziggy]

Heaven:
A mother just gives birth to a son. Joy, gladness...
Hell:
A mother who lost her son to drug overdose... Anger, depression...

We all live on both sides of the same coin.

"How could you ever be happy in heaven if say your best friend here went to hell? How could you tolerate that? Think it through."

Is it wrong for the one mother to be happy while another mother is grieving?

I suppose it depends on what one's definition of heaven and hell is..

hugs

 

[St. SteVen]

I suppose it depends on what one's definition of heaven and hell is..

Thanks for your fantastic post.

In my view...
What we have right now is hell, where we are all going is heaven. (all, as in all)

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[Ziggy]

Thanks for your fantastic post.

In my view...
What we have right now is hell, where we are all going is heaven. (all, as in all)

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

In this physical body here in the world, what I see going on around me is hell.
Most of the time now, even though my body is present in the world, my thoughts and heart are in heaven.
My body resides on this earth and the sufferings going on all around are so clear.
But my spirit knows that these sufferings are only temporary, and lead to mercy and grace.
It is this very Mercy and Grace in which I reside in. And to me, this IS heaven.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

I can't help myself

HUGS

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for posting the song. I listened.

But my spirit knows that these sufferings are only temporary, and lead to mercy and grace.
It is this very Mercy and Grace in which I reside in. And to me, this IS heaven.

Yes, sometimes we get a glimpse. Seems nearby in those moments.

 

[Lapidem]

Heaven:
A mother just gives birth to a son. Joy, gladness...

Why joy, gladness? She has just been responsible for bringing another life into this hell (as you refer to it). That's surely a pretty wicked thing to do?

Is it wrong for the one mother to be happy while another mother is grieving?

What is right and what is wrong? Do you think the universe has such concepts? It clearly doesn't. Do you think yourself more advanced than the universe? Superior? Does your having your concept of right and wrong somehow raise you above the universe? Or are you simply engaging in silly notions as humans are wont to do?

You glossed over the proposition I put to you. I realise such makes Christians uncomfortable.

"How could you ever be happy in heaven if say your best friend here went to hell? How could you tolerate that? Think it through."

Would you be happy being in hell knowing your friend was suffering eternal torment? Is that the kind of world you want? That's some kind of warped mindset.

I suppose it depends on what one's definition of heaven and hell is..

And there's the rub. Like so much in the Bible those 2 terms are allegorical. Especially in Genesis. They don't remotely mean what you think they do. But the secrets and true meanings are hidden from those without the eyes to see. The mysteries of the kingdom. The literal words of the Bible are riddled with errors and contradictions by which you should already realise that such interpretation is wrong. The words contain great truths hidden allegorically and cryptically and even in code. Jesus warns us clearly that if we don't have the thing the secrets reveal then we have no life in us. Time is fleeting. How long will you cling to the fairy stories born out of the false literal reading of the Bible and the same doctrine peddled by the church?

 

[Ziggy]

Why joy, gladness? She has just been responsible for bringing another life into this hell (as you refer to it). That's surely a pretty wicked thing to do?


What is right and what is wrong? Do you think the universe has such concepts? It clearly doesn't. Do you think yourself more advanced than the universe? Superior? Does your having your concept of right and wrong somehow raise you above the universe? Or are you simply engaging in silly notions as humans are wont to do?

You glossed over the proposition I put to you. I realise such makes Christians uncomfortable.

"How could you ever be happy in heaven if say your best friend here went to hell? How could you tolerate that? Think it through."

Would you be happy being in hell knowing your friend was suffering eternal torment? Is that the kind of world you want? That's some kind of warped mindset.


And there's the rub. Like so much in the Bible those 2 terms are allegorical. Especially in Genesis. They don't remotely mean what you think they do. But the secrets and true meanings are hidden from those without the eyes to see. The mysteries of the kingdom. The literal words of the Bible are riddled with errors and contradictions by which you should already realise that such interpretation is wrong. The words contain great truths hidden allegorically and cryptically and even in code. Jesus warns us clearly that if we don't have the thing the secrets reveal then we have no life in us. Time is fleeting. How long will you cling to the fairy stories born out of the false literal reading of the Bible and the same doctrine peddled by the church?

It sounds like I struck a nerve.

I don't understand what your interest is in the way other people choose to live their Here's here.
You do you. And let others do themselves.

Me? Who is me? There are thought patterns placed in my brain suggesting I will have a lie in and do very little tomorrow but they are just thought patterns just as my perception of yesterday is made of thought patterns. I don't know if I really did what I think I did yesterday. They are merely memories. I have no way to know if those memories are real or some constant stream of data being loaded into my brain.

When you figure out who what where when or why you are here,
then maybe look at how others figure out their answers.
In the meantime it looks like you have your own hands busy.

Hugs

 

[Lapidem]

It sounds like I struck a nerve.

That's just a convenient way to back out of a debate you're struggling in.

Note that for the 2nd time you've ignored the point I put to you:

"How could you ever be happy in heaven if say your best friend here went to hell? How could you tolerate that? Think it through."

"Would you be happy being in hell knowing your friend was suffering eternal torment? Is that the kind of world you want? That's some kind of warped mindset."

I guess that's a tough one to address right? It kind of exposes the utter nonsense of the doctrine peddled by the church.
There's no real love if there exists such a hell.

I don't understand what your interest is in the way other people choose to live their Here's here.
You do you. And let others do themselves.

But I am doing me. I'm just debating things on a forum. You don't need to contribute or even read the posts.
A point worth making however is that enough people are conned and duped into false ideologies then this begins to impact everyone elses lives. The Christian doctrine already affects the lives of many people that don't believe. It results in laws being changed. So everyone does have a vested interest in exposing false ideologies and systems of behavioural control. Just look at the disgusting scaremongering campaigns during the pandemic by gov't and media. It resulted in many gullible people becoming pious zealots calling for everyone else to be forcibly vaccinated despite the fact that the science showed that the vaccines don't stop people getting Covid, don't prevent onward transmission and lose their impact very quickly. So we very much do have to fight and campaign hard to stop these horrible psychological systems and attacks being perpetrated on vulnerable gullible people. It affects the whole of society.

 

[Ziggy]

First. I never took the jab. In fact on many threads in this forum I spoke out against it from the beginning.
When you have to resort to fearmongering and bribery to get people to do your will, it makes me stop and consider the motives.
Not too many christians running the governments of the world. I can attest to that.

The Christian doctrine already affects the lives of many people that don't believe. It results in laws being changed.

I would hope for the better, but it doesn't seem like the world wants to abide by God's laws.
God says don't steal. But they stole our trust, our dignity, our loved ones, our money.. and so much more.
God says don't lie. But they did lie every time they promised it was for our own good and for our neighbors.
God says don't worship other gods. But they made themselves gods by trying to make us bow down and worship their rules and mandates.
God say don't bear false witness, but they lied about the safety and efficacy of an experimental drug.

I could go on and on...

This campaign of theirs was anything but christian.

Note that for the 2nd time you've ignored the point I put to you:

"How could you ever be happy in heaven if say your best friend here went to hell? How could you tolerate that? Think it through."

"Would you be happy being in hell knowing your friend was suffering eternal torment? Is that the kind of world you want? That's some kind of warped mindset."

I guess that's a tough one to address right? It kind of exposes the utter nonsense of the doctrine peddled by the church.
There's no real love if there exists such a hell.

I didn't ignore you, you just didn't like my answer.

My answer was and is, it depends on what your interpretation of heaven and hell is.
Everyone has their own interpretation.
And I gave an example of a woman who experiences joy (heaven) at the same time another suffers loss (hell)
And the true christian way would be for the one who suffers to also share in the joy of their friend,
And the one who is joyful to share in the grief of the suffering of their friend.
Consoling one another and upholding one another.

Some believe that heaven and hell are seperate from the existence we live in. I'm not one of them.
I believe we experience heaven and hell during our lifetime here and now.
Of course what happens to the spirit after it leaves this mortal body is a mystery. I haven't died yet so I can't confirm one way or another.
But I can experience both while I am here now.
Trials, tribulations, temptations, all these are hell to the one experiencing them.
Sometimes they lead people to heaven, that is hope, humility, repenting of doing bad things by going through hell.

And it is never a pleasant thing watching another suffer. But the hope and love and compassion we have in our hearts is there for the purpose of comforting the one suffering.
If you are depressed and I am depressed, how can I hope to pull you out of your depression, while I myself am depressed?
One of us has to have hope to give to the other. One of us has to have joy to lift the other up.

One has to be in heaven in order to pull the other out of hell.
And this is done only by God's will working in us and through us.

If not for God, then we would be pushing jabs on people for the sake of profits and power.

And it is your choice to believe or not to believe. No one is forcing you to experience your "here" in whatever fashion you choose.
Just remember, their are alternatives.
And if your content, stay where you are.
And if not, try something new.

Hugs

 

[Lapidem]

Some believe that heaven and hell are seperate from the existence we live in. I'm not one of them.
I believe we experience heaven and hell during our lifetime here and now.

Interesting. So what particular flavour or denomination of "Christianity" are you adhering to in this belief?

 

[Ziggy]

Interesting. So what particular flavour or denomination of "Christianity" are you adhering to in this belief?

I don't belong to a denomination, I belong to the Lord.
Hugs

 

[Lapidem]

I don't belong to a denomination, I belong to the Lord.
Hugs

But you choose to call yourself a Christian and Christianity is a fairly rigidly defined belief system even with all its denominations.
I've come across numerous people on these forums who like to call themselves Christians but who clearly don't adhere to the Bible or doctrines. I call many of them "Pick n Mix" Christians because they're simply inventing their own religion, picking that bits that suit and ignoring the bits that don't. And of course they are free to believe anything they wish, but it is imo wrong to call such beliefs Christianity.

 

[Lapidem]

BTW if you don't believe in Heaven and Hell being specific separate places but states of existence on Earth do you therefore deny the Ascension of Jesus?

John 16:28
I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.”

John 14:2
In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

Mark 16:19
So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

Acts 1:9
And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Deut 4:39
Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

 

[Ziggy]

But you choose to call yourself a Christian and Christianity is a fairly rigidly defined belief system even with all its denominations.
I've come across numerous people on these forums who like to call themselves Christians but who clearly don't adhere to the Bible or doctrines. I call many of them "Pick n Mix" Christians because they're simply inventing their own religion, picking that bits that suit and ignoring the bits that don't. And of course they are free to believe anything they wish, but it is imo wrong to call such beliefs Christianity.

Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Deut 4:39
Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

You answered your own question.
There is nowhere that God is not.

Psa 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

God came down from heaven, walked among men, went back to heaven, and sent His own Spirit to comfort us and teach us.
So that where I am ye may be also.
And Lo, I am with you alway.

Rev 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: past and future do not exist?

What do you plan to do tomorrow?

Do this new "ISM" have some kind of identifying label?