The Peshitta - the Aramaic Bible translation

[St. SteVen]

Just wondering if the Peshitta contributes to any particular theological issues or throws light on matters not clear in other translations.

Is it then more than an interesting read ???

That's a great question.
Aramaic was the common language of Israel. Greek was the common international trade language.
Most of the OT was written in Hebrew, as I understand it. Jesus often quoted from the Septuagint.
Which was the Greek OT translation. See link in post #5

A little research pointed to The Lord's Prayer as being the most direct from the Aramaic to English.
Pasted below. (note the last word - plural form of eternity = "eternities") Supports multiple ages to come.

The Lord's Prayer
Matthew 6:9-13 Peschitta
9Therefore pray in this way: 'Our Father who are in Heaven, hallowed be your name,
10Let your Kingdom come, let your will be done also in the earth, just as it is in Heaven.
11Give us our necessary bread today.
12And forgive us our debts, just as we also forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not to temptation but deliver us from evil,
for yours is the Kingdom and the power and the glory, for the eternity of eternities.'

]

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yep, pretty close to KJV.

The existence of this translation would seem to confirm others mainly, and instill confidence in the process of rightly recording events, rather than introducing new revelation it seems. Apart from that ya gotta love it !!!

 

[St. SteVen]

Yep, pretty close to KJV.

I noticed a few nuances that were lost in the flowery poetic language of the KJV.

The Lord's Prayer
Matthew 6:9-13 Peschitta
9Therefore pray in this way: 'Our Father who are in Heaven, hallowed be your name,
10Let your Kingdom come, let your will be done also in the earth, just as it is in Heaven.
11Give us our necessary bread today.
12And forgive us our debts, just as we also forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not to temptation but deliver us from evil,
for yours is the Kingdom and the power and the glory, for the eternity of eternities.'

Matthew 6:9-13 KJV
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

]

 

[Carl Emerson]

9 reflects the plural Godhead
10 is a request rather than a proclamation.
11 reflects on Him knowing our daily needs better than us.

Nice one...

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I look at it this way.

Koine Greek and Aramaic(Peshitta) Two common languages that Jesus spoke, and that were in the geographical area at the time....

By comparing one with the other in scripture reading, if they say pretty much the same thing then it is reasonable
to say there should be little doubts on what we read today.

 

[St. SteVen]

By comparing one with the other in scripture reading, if they say pretty much the same thing then it is reasonable
to say there should be little doubts on what we read today.

I agree in general, but it is something to keep in mind. Here's a curious contradiction between the NT quote and the OT it was misquoted from. See the footnote about the wording as it differs from “gave gifts to” in place of “received gifts from”. Which is opposite in meaning! (bold emphasis in footnote is mine)

Ephesians 4:8 New English Translation (NET)
Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he captured[a] captives; he gave gifts to men.”[b]

Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. Ephesians 4:8 tn Grk “he led captive captivity.”
2. Ephesians 4:8 sn A quotation which is perhaps ultimately derived from Ps 68:18. However, the wording here differs from that of Ps 68 in both the Hebrew text and the LXX in a few places, the most significant of which is reading “gave gifts to” in place of “received gifts from” as in HT and LXX. It has sometimes been suggested that the author of Ephesians modified the text he was citing in order to better support what he wanted to say here. Such modifications are sometimes found in rabbinic exegesis from this and later periods, but it is also possible that the author was simply citing a variant of Ps 68 known to him but which has not survived outside its quotation here (W. H. Harris, The Descent of Christ [AGJU 32], 104). Another possibility is that the words here, which strongly resemble Ps 68:19 HT and LXX (68:18 ET), are actually part of an early Christian hymn quoted by the author.

--- COMPARE ---

Psalm 68:18 NET
You ascend on high;[a]
you have taken many captives.[b]
You receive tribute[c] from[d] men,
including even sinful rebels.
Indeed, the Lord God lives there.[e]

]

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I agree in general, but it is something to keep in mind. Here's a curious contradiction between the NT quote and the OT it was misquoted from. See the footnote about the wording as it differs from “gave gifts to” in place of “received gifts from”. Which is opposite in meaning! (bold emphasis in footnote is mine)

Ephesians 4:8 New English Translation (NET)
Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he captured[a] captives; he gave gifts to men.”[b]

Read full chapter

Footnotes​

1. Ephesians 4:8 tn Grk “he led captive captivity.”
2. Ephesians 4:8 sn A quotation which is perhaps ultimately derived from Ps 68:18. However, the wording here differs from that of Ps 68 in both the Hebrew text and the LXX in a few places, the most significant of which is reading “gave gifts to” in place of “received gifts from” as in HT and LXX. It has sometimes been suggested that the author of Ephesians modified the text he was citing in order to better support what he wanted to say here. Such modifications are sometimes found in rabbinic exegesis from this and later periods, but it is also possible that the author was simply citing a variant of Ps 68 known to him but which has not survived outside its quotation here (W. H. Harris, The Descent of Christ [AGJU 32], 104). Another possibility is that the words here, which strongly resemble Ps 68:19 HT and LXX (68:18 ET), are actually part of an early Christian hymn quoted by the author.

--- COMPARE ---

Psalm 68:18 NET
You ascend on high;[a]
you have taken many captives.[b]
You receive tribute[c] from[d] men,
including even sinful rebels.
Indeed, the Lord God lives there.[e]

]

Well, Peshitta gives a differing tone to meaning... in both.

EPH 4: 8Therefore it is said, “He ascended to the heights and took captivity prisoner and he has given gifts to the children of men.”

Psalm 68:18

18You have ascended on high and you have captured captivity and you have given gifts to the children of men and rebels will not dwell before God.

 

[Wick Stick]

Luke 4:14-30

If you think that the Jews kept a translated text in the synagogues— you’ve never met any.

My man, they weren't in Judea. They were in Galilee of the Gentiles. Different customs, different accent, and most did not trace their lineage to Judah.

 

[St. SteVen]

Well, Peshitta gives a differing tone to meaning... in both.

I agree, but when was the New Testament part of the Peshitta translated? Had to be later than the assembled canon.

Wiki sez: (bold emphasis mine)

The consensus within biblical scholarship, although not universal, is that the Old Testament of the Peshitta was translated into Syriac from Biblical Hebrew, probably in the 2nd century CE, and that the New Testament of the Peshitta was translated from Koine Greek, probably in the early 5th century.[5][6]

]

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I agree, but when was the New Testament part of the Peshitta translated? Had to be later than the assembled canon.

Wiki sez: (bold emphasis mine)

The consensus within biblical scholarship, although not universal, is that the Old Testament of the Peshitta was translated into Syriac from Biblical Hebrew, probably in the 2nd century CE, and that the New Testament of the Peshitta was translated from Koine Greek, probably in the early 5th century.[5][6]

]

Seems Wiki disagrees..... with Got Questions

The Peshitta is a collection of Aramaic manuscripts of the Bible. Aramaic was the most common “shared language” among people of the Near East and Middle East for many centuries. This includes the years immediately before and after the earthly ministry of Jesus. For this reason, the Peshitta was an important early translation of the Bible, widely distributed and widely used. The earliest available manuscripts date to the AD 400s.

The Peshitta is the primary text used in Syriac churches, which use the Aramaic language during religious services. These churches are often accused of holding to Nestorianism, though that description is often disputed.

And if you check a vers on Bible hub... Say Math 1:25 and check out the Aramaic bible it comes back reading

◄ Matthew 1 ►

Peshitta Holy Bible Translated Par ▾ 25And he did not know her sexually until she delivered her firstborn son, and she called his name Yeshua.

 

[Rockerduck]

They went to all that trouble for gentile converts to Judaism?
It's not like the common folk owned their own scrolls. Whether Hebrew or Greek. ???
The Ethiopian Eunuch bought a scroll of Isaiah. (maybe others)
Wonder if it was in Greek or Hebrew?

/

Alexander the Great, when conquering Judea, wanted everyone to conform to the Greek culture. It was Alexander that commissioned the Greek version of the OT. It worked since there were Greek speaking Jews in Jesus's day.

 

[St. SteVen]

Alexander the Great, when conquering Judea, wanted everyone to conform to the Greek culture. It was Alexander that commissioned the Greek version of the OT. It worked since there were Greek speaking Jews in Jesus's day.

What about the New Testament?

]

 

[Rockerduck]

What about the New Testament?

]

The oldest bible is the "Marcion Bible" from 144 AD.. Marcion was a controversial figure. But had the first collection of the Gospels, but he edited some of them. In Greek.

 

[St. SteVen]

The oldest bible is the "Marcion Bible" from 144 AD.. Marcion was a controversial figure. But had the first collection of the Gospels, but he edited some of them. In Greek.

That's my point. The New Testament was already written in Greek. I doubt that Alexander the Great initiated that.

]

 

[Pavel Mosko]

This was new information to me.
Seemed worthy of a topic for anyone not aware of this awesome Bible study tool.
Thanks to @Rella

Here's my post from another topic about how to find this tool. (free online)

Great post. Very informative, thanks!
I followed your link to Biblehub to see where the Peshitta was in the list of translations there.
Matthew 28 Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
One of the translation choices (the blue bar near the top) is abbreviated ARA = Aramaic Bible translated.
Aha! Perfect. Got it. :)

/ cc: @Rella

New to you, old for me. Been following this topic closely for a good 22 years. I once had a few different Lamsa Peshitta Bibles, now I only have a Study New Testament. I believe this whole topic has been largely blown out of proportion for reasons that this little article and the comments high light. You should read all the thread comments they are very instructive!

Besides all that there are other issues regarding the Ancient Church that also downplay the importance of this topic. The one surprising area very few talk about is actually on the Trinity Doctrine. Not with the actual Peshitta per see but with the Biblical Aramaic and Syriac and how that reinforces notions that people usually dismiss as just "Pagan Philosophy" for Trinity nay sayers. There is a lot of stuff from Second Temple Judaism on this topic, which has been a fun new niche of theological, historical and Biblical study.

https://aramaicnt.org/articles/problems-with-peshitta-primacy/

 

[Rockerduck]

That's my point. The New Testament was already written in Greek. I doubt that Alexander the Great initiated that.

]

Marcion was from Rome. He rejected the OT and believed Apostle Paul was the only true Apostle. I agree, the NT was already in the Greek language.

 

[Carl Emerson]

New to you, old for me. Been following this topic closely for a good 22 years. I once had a few different Lamsa Peshitta Bibles, now I only have a Study New Testament. I believe this whole topic has been largely blown out of proportion for reasons that this little article and the comments high light. You should read all the thread comments they are very instructive!

Besides all that there are other issues regarding the Ancient Church that also downplay the importance of this topic. The one surprising area very few talk about is actually on the Trinity Doctrine. Not with the actual Peshitta per see but with the Biblical Aramaic and Syriac and how that reinforces notions that people usually dismiss as just "Pagan Philosophy" for Trinity nay sayers. There is a lot of stuff from Second Temple Judaism on this topic, which has been a fun new niche of theological, historical and Biblical study.

https://aramaicnt.org/articles/problems-with-peshitta-primacy/

My browser doesnt like the link...

Can you expand on the Peshitta and the trinity please.

I confess I am new to reading it, and I really like the 'feel' of it...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

My browser doesnt like the link...

Can you expand on the Peshitta and the trinity please.

I confess I am new to reading it, and I really like the 'feel' of it...

Yes my Bite def

My browser doesnt like the link...

Can you expand on the Peshitta and the trinity please.

I confess I am new to reading it, and I really like the 'feel' of it...

Yes at some point I need to copy and paste that article to my computer and make my own unofficial bootleg of it.


The Basic issues of the Peshitta if we are talking about the Lamsa one (the main one you see advertised) is it is based on a medieval 1200 Syriac Lexicon. Now that isn't horrible but Lexicons due change with time. Another big issue with it is it is the wrong dialect of Aramaic it is Eastern Syriac, which is a bit different than old Western Galilean Aramaic. Its like comparing different Romance languages like maybe medieval Portugues or Spanish with ancient Latin. There are plenty of similarities but also some big differences. Probably the most notable one is the name of Jesus, the familiar "Yeshua" we all have heard from both Messianic Jews, but also Evangelicals imitating them vs. "Eshoo"(IEShoo)! There is a local Assyrian politician from my area, the Democratic party Representative of San Jose, CA and Silicon Valley, named Ana Eshoo. I doubt that very few of her Christian constituents know her last name in East Syriac is "Jesus".

 

[Pavel Mosko]

My browser doesnt like the link...

Can you expand on the Peshitta and the trinity please.

I confess I am new to reading it, and I really like the 'feel' of it...

On the Trinity. I have found my knowledge of Second Temple Judaism and Aramaic helpful in defending the Trinity doctrine from dismissive claims because the terminology used in the Nicene Creed was lifted from Stoic and maybe Platonic philosophy lots of folks try to claim "it is a pagan corruption of Christianity". But that isn't the case because we see similar things going on in Judaism at the time. I would recommend you look at my old thread "History of the Trinity" on Christian Forums linked below.

History of the Trinity

I've been researching, Blogging and Video Blogging concerning How the Trinity doctrine came into being in Christianity the last few years. So this thread will be a kind of summation and clarification of that. 1) I'm going to talk about Old Testament weirdness that would lead to "The Two...

www.christianforums.com

 

[St. SteVen]

I would recommend you look at my old thread "History of the Trinity" on Christian Forums linked below.

History of the Trinity

I've been researching, Blogging and Video Blogging concerning How the Trinity doctrine came into being in Christianity the last few years. So this thread will be a kind of summation and clarification of that. 1) I'm going to talk about Old Testament weirdness that would lead to "The Two...

www.christianforums.com

Could you repost that topic here? I'm not welcome over there.

/