The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[MatthewG]

I love Bible highlighter for who he is,

God has a purpose for him, he is trying to do what is right from the heart for all I know, I might have different views from what you may see but just let me remind you God loves you and has a purpose for you, allow him lead you as your lead by the Spirit and remember it is knowledge of the Son of God that important and learning about who God is that matters which is expressed in love by the spirit through Christ Jesus that matters.


“So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:11-16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I go by 2 Peter 1:8 which talks about the believer's progression out of sin and into the ever increasing qualities of the Spirit listed. Every believer is on an exodus from Egypt to the Promised Land of obedience and blessing.

But this same Peter does talk about 'being done with sin' (1 Peter 4:1). This exodus from Egypt for the people of God, with it's trials through the desert places of life between where we came from and where we are going, are instrumental in cleansing us of the rebellion of sin and it's bondage we had been so accustomed to in Egypt. The time does come when, for any one particular propensity to sin, you are done with it. For me fits of rage was a sin that the hard desert places killed off in me. That man died in the desert. Just the way God intended.

I am not in disagreement that Sanctification is progressive and it takes time for many believers to grow and mature so as to put away sin at some point in their life. Not all believers go from zero to hero overnight or even over a good couple of years. However, overcoming sin in this life is what 1 Peter 4:1-2 is talking about unless you twist it to your own destruction. The same is true for Galatians 5:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1. Future sin is not forgiven you. If such is the case, then you have a license to sin and one's belief is no more different that of Satanism in practice (1 John 3:8).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All sin has been paid for by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. If a person is in Christ their sins have been forgiven -- past, present, and future. Christ is sinless and Christians are in Christ. You don't have to receive forgiveness over and over and over.

First, 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 2:1 teaches that you have to confess of your sins to Jesus (our advocate) in order to be forgiven of sin. 1 John 1:9 is not in reference to Initial Salvation but Continued Salvation. John was writing to the brethren (See 1 John 2). John was telling them to “sin not" but if they do sin, they have an advocate. An advocate for what? To confess of their sin so as to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9).

Second, 1 John 1:9 does not make sense as being in reference to Initial Salvation because God does not require us to confess of all our past life of sins from being unbeliever when we first come to Him. A general prayer of forgiveness in that we sinned against God would only be natural.

The Lord's prayer says forgive us our debts (sin) (Matthew 6:12). This appears to be a model prayer for believers to do as needed and not as a one time event only.

After King David committed murder and adultery, he confessed his sins to God in Psalms 51, yet he was clearly right with God when he went up against Goliath back in his youth. This shows that forgiveness is not a one time event in our life when we first meet God alone.

In fact, repentance is seeking forgiveness of one's sins with the Lord.

A Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that "Repentance" means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

"Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "Repentance" means "Asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

(Continued in next post):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You dont get it

Yes, it’s true. I will never understand your “anti-biblical diplomatic immunity to sin” type belief because it’s is not only against God’s Holy Word, but it is against basic morality. Your view on sin and salvation sets up a license to sin (Regardless of whether you agree or not). For if you tell a child this garbage, and you never see them again, they could turn out to be the next George Sodini who murdered others, and took his own life thinking he was saved by having a belief alone in Jesus.

Gods people ARE righteous. There is no MAYBE about it

Therefore, one can live like the devil and be an axe murderer, porn star, statue worshiper, professional thief, and swear every other word and be saved all because they have a belief alone on Jesus as the Savior. But this would be turning God’s grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.
1 John 3:10 he that does not righteousness is not of God.

But they don;t go pumping their chests telling everyone how great they are.

You have an overactive imagination. I believe all the good works that a genuine believer does is God doing the good work through them. So all praise and glory go to God and not themselves. For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).

Also, God requires us to do things that are loving and good. So to obey God is not about our being self righteous but it is honoring and loving Him. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

And judging the sinner. Jesus came to save the lost.

Actually, Jesus called sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32), and He did not buddy up with their sin.

The pharisees were righteous.

To a certain man made level they might be, but not according to the righteousness requirements of God according to His commands. Jesus called them hypocrites, and He said that they violated His laws.

According to the law.

No. They were not righteous according to the Law. They ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (See: Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42).

But they failed to see. In Gods standard they were the worse sinners.’

Jesus was not looking for the Jews to have a belief alone in Him as being the Savior while they remained as sinners.
Jesus warned against sin in how it can damn our souls (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never said Paul preached against Jesus

YOU ARE..

Paul agreed with Jesus. Your twisting pauls words to excuse your own works based Gospel. Paul speaks against you not for you

You are indirectly preaching against the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness because your diplomatic immunity to sin type belief has no consequences to lead a person to truly live godly and to truly desire to heed Jesus’ words on His warnings against how sin can destroy our soul in the afterlife (See again Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62).

For if you take away the consequences of breaking a law then people are going to be more likely to break it. For example: If there was no punishment for going over the speed limit, then more people would be more likely to disregard the speed limit, and do whatever they felt was good and right in their own eyes.

For example: I live in a state where the cops do not tend to care about your speed on the highway so much. But the state I grew up in, the cops were everywhere trying to get you for speeding. So the difference is the way you see people drive. The state I am in currently people drive crazy, and fast. The state I grew up in they drive a lot more slower, and safely and they are reserved. This shows that if a law is enforced with punishment, people are more likely to obey.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I just came across this in my reading. Timing seems appropriate.

"Paul told the Jews that they were taking the mercy of God as an invitation to sin rather than as an incentive to repentance. it was Heine who made the famous, cynical statement. He was obviously not worrying about the world to come. He was asked why he was so confident, and his answer was, "God will forgive." He was asked why he was so sure of that, and his reply was, "C'est son metier" "It is his trade." Let us think of it in human terms. There are two attitudes to human forgiveness. Suppose a young person does something which is a shame, a sorrow and a heartbreak to his parents, and suppose that in love he is freely forgiven, and the thing is never held against him. He can do one of two things. He can either go and do the same thing again, trading on the fact that he will be forgiven once more; or he can be so moved to wondering gratitude by the free forgiveness that he has received, that he spends his whole life in trying to be worthy of it. It is one of the most shameful things in the world to use love's forgiveness as an excuse to go on sinning." (William Barclay, The Letter to the Romans, The Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 43)

William Barclay….

1. Denied the virgin birth.
2. Was a Universalist.
3. Was an Evolutionist.
4. Questioned the miracles of Jesus.
5. Did not believe the story of Jonah was real.
6. Did not have a problem in others calling him a liberal.
7. Made contradictory statements about the deity of Christ.

In other words, it does not sound like you should be listening to him or other theologians or Pastors. Just read the Bible for yourself and believe what it says at face value. Ask God for the understanding on it, and compare Scripture with Scripture.

Source:
You are being redirected...
Beware of William Barclay

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Thank you for your feedback. I did not know that about Barclay and will keep it in mind as I read his works.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you for your feedback. I did not know that about Barclay and will keep it in mind as I read his works.

If I found that out about him, I would burn his books or throw them away immediately.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

If I found that out about him, I would burn his books or throw them away immediately.

If I burned the books of authors who offend me then there would be no books.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If I burned the books of authors who offend me then there would be no books.

Trash should be thrown away.

Besides, you really only need one book… and that is the Bible.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Trash should be thrown away.

Besides, you really only need one book… and that is the Bible.

"One man's trash..."

I appreciate your feedback but please let me make up my own mind on what I choose to read or not read.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"One man's trash..."

I appreciate your feedback but please let me make up my own mind on what I choose to read or not read.

You are obviously free to do as you wish. I cannot stop you. All I can do is warn you. If you fill your mind with bad stuff… then bad stuff will come out. You reap what you sow. It’s like a person who watches a movie that is filled with sex scenes and violence and says that it does not affect them in any way. What you put in your head comes back out. We can either choose to focus on that which is good or godly or not do so.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"One man's trash..."

I appreciate your feedback but please let me make up my own mind on what I choose to read or not read.

Personally, I wouldn’t be caught dead with owning a liberal’s book. To me: Liberalism is an attack on believing the Bible.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yeah it gives requirments

Obey every word of the law perfectly

Believe in Gods provision and sacrifice of the cross

These are the ony two ways.

This post just proves you have no understanding of the law

What law is it you feel I do not understand sir, as I sure do not see the "proof"?

 

[Robert Gwin]

There are Grace Commands (For our Initial and Foundational Salvation), and there are Sanctification Commands (For the Secondary Aspect of our Salvation). While there are Grace Commands in the New Testament, I believe God provided them for the Jews because they are law focused.

I think the starting point in our mind towards God should not first be the Law but it should be God’s grace, and it should be faith and trust in God first. That should be our first approach when we think about sin and salvation, (or even living for the Lord). For Titus 2:11-12 says God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

Also, Christians are not under the 613 Laws of Moses (even though certain laws have been repeated in the New Covenant or within the Laws of Christ). Paul says he is under the law(s) of Christ in 1 Corinthians 9:21. Yet, we cannot be justified by the Old Law (Acts of the Apostles 13:39). For we are not under the Old Law (Romans 6:14). Believers are not to serve in newness of spirit (with New Testament Scripture) and not in the oldness of the letter (i.e. the Torah) (See: Romans 7:6).

Do you have an example of a law that was repeated in the New testament that we as Christians are not obligated to follow sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

And faith in the blood is simply what God gives us to accomplish that one way to be saved?

I am going to have to ask you to define faith Ferris, as I think we might have a different understanding of what the word means sir. My understanding is that Jesus' flesh and blood was given for redemption of sin, and that all who receive salvation receive it through that sacrifice, is that not correct?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

My understanding is that Jesus' flesh and blood was given for redemption of sin

Yes, redemption from sin. As his relatives, He has bought back and redeemed from sin the 'land' that we sold to sin.

and that all who receive salvation receive it through that sacrifice, is that not correct?

Yes. By faith. We receive salvation through the sacrifice of Christ, by faith.

I am going to have to ask you to define faith Ferris, as I think we might have a different understanding of what the word means sir.

Faith is a thing. It's the ability to know something is true that you can't see. And so it is by faith that we are able to know that the gospel is true. It's a supernatural enabling given to a person so they can know the gospel is true so they can then place their trust in that which they now know to be true.

By faith (God's supernatural power to know something is true) we know God's promise to forgive our sins through Jesus Christ is true. And so we have the foundation upon which to then trust in the blood of Christ and receive that forgiveness of sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you have an example of a law that was repeated in the New testament that we as Christians are not obligated to follow sir?

I believe you misunderstood me. I should have clarified my words a little better.

I updated this part of my post for better clarity (So hopefully you understand):

“….Christians are not under the 613 Laws of Moses (even though we are obligated to keep certain laws which have been repeated in the New Covenant or within the Laws of Christ).” ~ Bible Highlighter (Post #28).​

In other words, I believe the commands from the Old Law like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etcetera have been repeated in the New Testament and we are obligated to keep them as a part of eternal life. However, we are not under the whole package deal or contract of the 613 Laws of Moses. Meaning, we don’t have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, holy days, offer animals for sacrifice, render an eye for an eye, make oaths, stone others for breaking certain aspects of the Old Law, etcetera.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, it’s true. I will never understand your “anti-biblical diplomatic immunity to sin” type belief because it’s is not only against God’s Holy Word, but it is against basic morality. Your view on sin and salvation sets up a license to sin (Regardless of whether you agree or not). For if you tell a child this garbage, and you never see them again, they could turn out to be the next George Sodini who murdered others, and took his own life thinking he was saved by having a belief alone in Jesus.

Well of course not. Because I do not believe as you claim. Nor do I believe a person who claims to be saved and turns into a murderer and or rapist ever knew God. Unlike you I believe in the power of God to change people

Therefore, one can live like the devil and be an axe murderer, porn star, statue worshiper, professional thief, and swear every other word and be saved all because they have a belief alone on Jesus as the Savior. But this would be turning God’s grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

Typical response from a legalist self righteous person who thinks they are ok.

John said those born of God CAN’T Live like the devil. Why do you always pick and chose what parts of the Bible that seem to support your view. And ignore the rest.?
Once again, Why don’t you believe in the power of God to change lives? Then again, you do not believe in the power of God to save. So why would you believe he can actually change people

Jude spoke of people who claimed to believe in Grace but lived like the devil. He not only said they never knew God. He said their destruction was predetermined.

You using this to support your self righteous works based Gospel just shows how you pick and chose scripture to support your phariseeism..SMH

1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.
1 John 3:10 he that does not righteousness is not of God.

Yep.

It also says those who are born of Gd can not live in sin, and those who live in sin has NEVER SEEn or KNOWN GOD.

See how you once again pick and chose scripture to support your works?

But when it comes to Gods righteous standard. There is none righteous no not one.
The pharisee was righteous according to the law in the eyes of men. Look what it got them It won’t get you any more than it got them

Your to focused on works and being good. When can you ever serve people. All you think about is yourself.

You have an overactive imagination. I believe all the good works that a genuine believer does is God doing the good work through them. So all praise and glory go to God and not themselves. For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).

The jews thought the same thing. Yet they spoke just like you and rejected their messiah who came to save them. You really think you would do different? You speak the same words and act the same as they do.

Also, God requires us to do things that are loving and good. So to obey God is not about our being self righteous but it is honoring and loving Him. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

you do it for glory of self. Not love. You already admitted that you please God.. Thats all you care about. Your trying to please God to save yourself.
Your not fooling anyone but yourself.

Actually, Jesus called sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32), and He did not buddy up with their sin.

Lol. There you go focuses on sin again and how righteous you THINK you are

We don’t buddy up with sin either. We confess our sins to God and to each other as we are told. We disciple each other. But our focus is on living others and serving.. Not trying to be the most righteous people on earth and pleasing God. We acknowledge there is nothing in us that pleases God. And anything we do is all praise and glory to him. Because without him and his spirit. We would do nothing good.

To a certain man made level they might be, but not according to the righteousness requirements of God according to His commands. Jesus called them hypocrites, and He said that they violated His laws.

And here we go. You must not think you violate Gods law. Yet you do. Your no different than them, your no different than anyone else.

No. They were not righteous according to the Law. They ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (See: Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42).

James said if they kept the whole law yet stumbled in one point they are guilty of all. They did not keep the law. You do not keep the law. I do not keep the law/ It is an unobtainable standard. It was made that way for a reason. To shut our mouths, that all of us stand guilty before God.

Yet jesus said unless our righteousness exceeds theirs we have no hope. When it came to law giving they were the mother Theresa’s of their day. Who was more righteous No one. (Well one was. His name was Jesus, remember what he tried to get them to see? Why do you cal me GOOD NO ONE IS GOOD by God.

Are you God?

Jesus was not looking for the Jews to have a belief alone in Him as being the Savior while they remained as sinners.
Jesus warned against sin in how it can damn our souls (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15).

Sin damns everyone my friend/ The fact you do not see that just proves you have no idea of your sinfulness and what God really thinks of it

Jesus came to save us from the penalty of sin. Your trying to save yourself by being good. It will not work.