The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[Bible Highlighter]

5. We are not saved. We are continuing to try to save ourself

There is a past tense version of our salvation just like it was for Israel. Israel was saved out of Egypt, but they did not continue with God and they were overthrown in the wilderness by the deceitfulness of their own sin.

You also falsely accuse me in that I believe salvation is all one sided in the believer’s ability alone. It’s not. Salvation is synergistic. God can do the good work through the believer (John 15:5) (Philippians 2:13). But God also will not force us against our will to be saved, either. A person must do his part, and God will do his part (See: John 14:23). For without faith, it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (See: Hebrews 11:6). Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Everything in your Bible is a part of the faith. Your New Testament is chocked full of instructions to obey God, and it is filled with warnings on how sin can destroy your soul unless you confess and forsake those sins (See: Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 1:7). This is all a part of the faith. You see faith as only a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior. You separate works from the faith. But that would not be accurate picture of faith. Faith is trusting everything God has said. This would be the whole Bible (that you don’t accept). For you don’t accept or believe verses like Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Philippians 2:12, etcetera. For just as Catholics reject certain verses in the Bible (i.e. verses on idolatry, and necromancy), Protestants also have their pet verses that they deny, as well.

My encouragement to you is take a break away from Protestantism for a while. Just get in the Bible alone and start reading and believing what it says plainly with the help of God. Right now… you only are parroting blindly what Protestants say. Get out from among them and start studying the Bible on your own with God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

6. Our faith and hope can not be in God. Because God can fail and we can fall

Falling Away List of Verses:

If we are never in jeopardy when we sin, then the Bible would not teach that we can fall away from the faith; But it does teach that we can fall away.

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3​

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)​

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)​

In fact, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

These things would not exist in Scripture if things are as OSAS folk say.
So obviously just because the Bible teaches we can fall away does not mean our faith or hope is not in God. Believers trust everything in the Bible by faith (Even those verses that are uncomfortable to deal with).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Have you ever contemplated what this passage is saying Ferris?:
(Proverbs 21:2) . . .All of a man’s ways seem right to him, But Jehovah examines the hearts.

What would you say the meaning is sir?

It means just because we think/feel something is right doesn't mean that it is.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your trying to mix justification (declaired righteous) and sanctification (christian growth)

Please refer back to the verses in post #84. They clearly refer to how our obedience is tied in with our salvation (i.e. the removal of the penalty of sin). Any person who is honest with themselves in reading those verses without any bias to Protestantism will conclude that the Protestant mantra that you are espousing is a lie (straight up). As I said. Just as Catholics repeat what they have been taught by their masters, you do the same from your own masters of theology from Protestantism. You don’t really check the Scriptures to see if what they are saying is really true. You just gobble and eat up what Protestants say blindly by faith and then you force the Protestant belief upon the Scriptures like most everybody else. Why? Because sin is enticing. You can have your cake and eat it, too. Sure, again. You claim to not be Hyper Grace, but by your other words, you also believe you can sin and still be saved on some level and yet also have the keys to the Kingdom. This is a false hope. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Its ok though. I will pray for you.

Right, and I will pray for you to come out of Protestantism and to not blindly follow what they say as if it was the Word of God.

You want to be a fool (yes paul called anyone who claimed we begin in the spirit but think we must perfect in the flesh in gal 3)

Paul says:
“Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” (Galatians 3:3).

What does Paul mean?

Well, this is saying that they started off in the Spirit (God’s grace, and His good ways with the Spirit) and now Paul is asking them if they are perfect by the fleshy action of circumcision.

For the Galatian believers were thinking they had to be circumcised in order to be saved because of the Jews who spied out their liberty in Christ Jesus so as to bring them into bondage.

Galatians 2:3-4 says,
“But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:”

For Paul says,
“if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” (Galatians 5:2).

Obviously Circumcision is not a problem if one is not doing it for salvation (For Paul circumcised Timothy so that he could move about within the Jewish region - See Acts of the Apostles 16:3). The issue is that there were Jews who were trying to deceive Christians into thinking they had to be circumcised in order to be saved. This heresy was addressed at the Jerusalem council.

Acts of the Apostles 15:1
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”

(See also Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

Believers under the New Covenant are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. Christians do not have to be circumcised, keep the Saturday Sabbath, holy days, and or dietary laws so as to be saved (See: Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 14:5, Romans 14:14).

Anyways, getting back to Galatians 3. Paul asks the Galatian believes in his letter to them:

Galatians 3:1-2
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

So again we see here that Paul confirms they have been bewitched and he asks if they received the Spirit by the works of the Law (like circumcision), or the hearing of faith. This establishes Paul statement if you seek to be justified by the Law you have fallen from grace in Galatians 5:4. Paul was talking about them being circumcised to be saved (Galatians 5:2) (Galatians 2:3). So no. Your not reading things in context. My guess is you had no idea about this kind of thing in the text. You are just inserting what you want to be true into the Bible.

Once again, You proved you have not heard a word I said in the last post.

I responded to each of your points with Scripture. You have not explained the verses I put forth to you that refutes your false belief of Protestantism (or your false belief of Justification).

I am not playing childish games anymore..

Why would you play childish games to begin with when talking about the salvation of men?
That does not sound like you are taking the topic seriously to begin with.

I will just post truth

You mean the truth of Protestantism and not the truth of the Bible.

and expose hypocrisy and self righteousness.

Then you need to look also within your own camp. There is plenty of that in Protestantism. I have been trying to point this out to you, but it of course it falls on deaf ears because you like Protestantism. It’s fits your life well. No need to rock the boat and truly suffer for Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I need to understand this? This is exactly what I have been saying all along, it is what James prety much said,

Imagine if taking a bite of fruit caused the fall of mankind, what you sin does? You think you are better than them?

No. You fail to understand that the serpent was trying to deceive Eve to break God’s command and that she would not die.
This lie is the same lie being pushed by Protestantism or their false teaching on Justification and their false understanding on Sanctification.

Second, when I talk with Christians who believe as you do, their standard of morality is not consistent and it is contradictory. Christians who believe as you do generally accept the Gotquestions article below that states that a believer’s life is not identified by a life of sin, and yet they are forgiven no matter how many times they sin, and they are saved even if they backslidden into a prodigal lifestyle of sin.

And? You do realise there are three types of people who call themselves believers.

1. Licentious. Easy believism, they turn the grace of God to licentiousness. They have no faith in Christ. Their faith is in their lives,

2. Grace - They believe and have repented the true repentance that leads to live and are given eternal life and the seal of the spirit. They admit sin is sin is sin, and no one should try to excuse any sin

3. Legalism 0 they believe that we begin in the spirit. B it we must maintain salvation by our deeds.

I see the categories like this:

1. Hyper Grace.
2. Partial Hyper Grace.
3. Legalism (No True Grace).
4. The True Teaching of the Bible in that Believers Need to Be Concerned with Two Aspects of Salvation (Grace & Sanctification by faith).

Hyper Grace is the Easy Believism crowd. They are men like George Sodini who killed a bunch of people and took his own life. He wrote before his death that he would be saved despite these evil acts by having a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior. I have run into an individual in person who believes this way.

Partial Hyper Grace is the most popular (and it is the type of belief that I believe you hold to). It puts on a show of holiness, but it really does not align with the holy living described in the Bible. While these type of folks claim that they don’t agree with Hyper Grace, they believe whatever sin falls through the nets is covered. For these types say that they will always sin this side of Heaven. They use 1 John 1:8 as an excuse that they must sin again at some point in the future. They also use Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 that we all sin (Suggesting that they are enslaved to sin in this life) when in reality the Bible says that they that are Christ’s, have crucified the affections in lusts (Galatians 5:24). When push comes to shove, these types of believers never really describe the difference of the sins in their life that they justify while under God’s grace vs. the Hyper Grace crowd (To show any real difference between each other). Meaning, they never are willing to giving us an account of a daily, weekly, or monthly walk of the believer and how much they sin and the type of sin they commit (For it not to be habitual or unacceptable). They even at times try to convince Conditional Salvationists how many times they sin (Suggesting nobody can keep God’s laws to enter the Kingdom - which runs contrary to Revelation 22:14-15 KJB). It’s clearly a lukewarm church. They have one foot in God’s Kingdom and one foot in the devil’s kingdom. However, God declares: Choose this day in whom you will serve. You cannot serve two masters (Both God and your sin).

Legalism would describe groups that totally deny in being saved at any point in a believer’s life by God’s grace without works. Catholics and the Church of Christ would fall into this group because they think baptism (a work) is the first saving act of grace. They don’t believe in being initially saved by God’s grace without works by calling upon Jesus for salvation and in believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

The True Teaching of the Bible in that Believers Need to Be Concerned with Two Aspects of Salvation (Grace and Sanctification by faith).
Believers are initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9), and then they enter the second aspect of salvation by the Sanctification Process of the Spirit of God (to live a holy life). For the call of the gospel is that God has chosen you to Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14). For if you live after the flesh (sin), you will die (die the second death), but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally) (See: Romans 8:13).

What is amazing is licentious people call grace people legalists. Claiming we are urging them for sin. While legalists call us licentious. Because we call them out for their sin of unbelief also. Their faith is in self. And their ability to change. Not in Gods ability to change them.

You have a wrong perspective on things because you are only following the words of Protestants and not the Bible.
You have not truly left Protestantism and study the Bible on your own without their help to truly see what God’s Word truly says.
You are only looking at the Bible through the lens or glasses of Protestantism.

Their faith is no more biblical than yours my friend. Instead of turning against them and going to the far side the other way. Come to the middle with True repentant believers who do not deny Gods great salvation more his power to change lives.

But again, you don’t truly believe a person is changed fully or completely as the Bible describes it (Galatians 5:24) (1 Peter 4:1-2) (2 Corinthians 7:1). You say that believers will always sin this side of Heaven based on a faulty interpretation of 1 John 1:8, and Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23.

And here we have it. You do not have faith. Because you believe YOU MAY FAIL. Your faith is in self and you just proved it.

Right because I believe the Bible. Paul also said he could be a cast away. You did not really address this point.

You do not have the eternal life that John said we can know we have. You do not trust God. Your trust is in self.

If I did not trust in Jesus as my Savior then I would not have a love, joy, and peace that I had never know before. So your accusations are simply false.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So I quote the epistle of John where he said those who are born of God can not live in sin. And those who sin have never seen or known God, And you claim I do not belive a christian is fully changed.. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Explaining 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9:

Modern Translations will say practice sin or continue in sin in 1 John 3:9 (as if to say it is talking exclusively of practicing sin), but this is not the case in the trusted KJV (that existed hundreds of years long before the Modern Translations showed up). (Note: I am not denying that it can be in reference to habitual sin, but it is not exclusively referring to habitual sin but also singular or temporary sin, too.).

The key to understanding 1 John 3:9 is realizing that this "does not commit sin" is in context to the gnostic belief who think sin does not exist or that sin is an illusion in some way (See 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 2:26, Jude 1:4). Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. Eternal Security Proponents (i.e. OSAS - Once Saved Always Saved), and or Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Types (Free Will Baptists) think future sin is forgiven them by having a belief alone on Jesus. So while they believe sin may exist on a physical level, they do not think sin exists for them on a spiritual level because they believe Jesus paid for their future sins (When the Bible never says future sin is forgiven us). In other words, I believe it is those who justify sin in some way who have not been born again spiritually and who have never seen or known Christ and He (the seed) does not abide in them. 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 is talking about "willful sin" in Hebrews 10:26 in view or light of 1 John 1:8.

In other words, 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9 is in view of "willful sin" or "justifying sin" in some way.

1 John 3:9 should read like this:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [willfully, as if to justify it]; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin [willfully], because he is born of God."

1 John 3:6 should read like this:

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not [willfully, seeking to justify their sin]: whosoever sinneth [as if to justify their sin] hath not seen him, neither known him."

This would be in view or light of applying the context of the false gnostic belief that John warned the brethren about in 1 John 1:8.

Christians can battle with sin. This is why they need to confess of their sins in order to be forgiven of sin as per 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1-2 (cf. with: Proverbs 28:13, Psalms 51, Luke 15:18-21, Luke 18:9-14). But Christians are told to "sin no more" by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (John 5:14, John 8:11). The apostle John said to "sin not" (1 John 2:1).

Christians are to enter the Sanctification Process and put away sin by God's power.

It's why Paul said let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). Romans 8:13 essentially says if we live after the flesh, we will die, but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, we shall live. Two ways are set before us. We either seek to justify sin and die, or we seek to put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit and live (live eternally). Both God's grace (confessing sin to the Lord), and in forsaking our sin, and battling against putting it away by His power and help (and by putting the Word on the inside of us) is going to help us to overcome and live holy in this life. 1 Peter 4:1-2 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: I believe that the way they cease from sin was in the fact that they denied themselves sin, and prayed, and fasted, and suffered persecution for Christ); And this passage also says that we should live the rest of our time (here on Earth obviously) not to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God.

Paul says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).

So we have to in time have the victory over our sin. The time for each believer on this is between that person and God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So I quote the epistle of John where he said those who are born of God can not live in sin. And those who sin have never seen or known God, And you claim I do not belive a christian is fully changed.. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Believers also are not forced to be a certain way, either.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

First, the Old Law is no longer applicable to believers today (Acts of the Apostles 13:39) (Acts of the Apostles 15) (Romans 6:14) (Romans 7:6).

Second, Paul says he is not without Law but he is under the Law(s) to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21).

Three, Paul says that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Your belief does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness because you believe Romans 3, and 1 John 1:8 are arguments that we all sin and do unrighteousness (on some level). Sure, you may not be openly Hyper Grace, but at certain times in your life, it appears like this is the case. You are Partial Hyper Grace.



Because the Old Law is no longer applicable anymore (2 Corinthians 3:7-17) (Colossians 2:14-17).



Right, and he was referring to those type of laws that if broken would lead to spiritual death.
James was not referring to non-death sins like in 1 John 5:16, and in Matthew 5:22 AMP.



Uh, Christians do have grace by confessing their sins to be forgiven of their sins (1 John 1:9). These sins are confessed to their advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1). This confession of sin is not a license to sin or a paying of lip service without overcoming sin because 1 John 1:9 says that the purpose of confessing sin is not only to be forgiven of sin but it is to also cleanse ourselves from ALL unrighteousness. You don’t believe 1 John 1:9 (Among many other verses because you prefer to have Protestants talk in your ear to give you doctrine versus just reading the Bible alone with God’s help).



A believer is only a sinner if they commit sin. Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).
You most likely believe that when you sin, that Jesus does not see your sin because He paid for it on the cross.
This is a license to sin because that means you can do whatever you want because Jesus paid for all your sins.
You can murder, cheat, steal, fornicate, etcetera all because Jesus paid for all your future sins already.
Granted, you try to double speak your way out of this kind of false belief you hold to, but this is not surprising. You will fight tooth and nail to defend your sin and still be saved type belief. Again, you may not be Hyper Grace, but you sure sound like you are Partial Hyper Grace.
For you don’t believe confessing sin is conditional upon being forgiven (saved) or you don’t believe living holy is a part of the salvation process (i.e. Sanctification also removes the penalty of sin - Just read 1 John 1:7).

dude, unless you repent of falsly accusing me, I will not longer respond to you.

you accused me of saying a christian is not fully and radically changed AFTER I posted john in saying the total opposite. Funny how you totally ignore that post and skipped over it. Did you think I was going to ignore it?

Until you respomnd to that post. you can post until your blue. You are exposed as a false accuser

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You seem to think you can obey the law and live up to its standards.
The beauty of posting is that everything we say is in writing sir. I have been posting here for quite a while now, may I ask you to copy and paste anywhere I gave any indication that I believe that.

I asked you a simple question and you were unable to post any instance, so why would you say it?

what is the penalty for failing t live up to that standard?

Do you own up to that?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Explaining 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9:

Modern Translations will say practice sin or continue in sin in 1 John 3:9 (as if to say it is talking exclusively of practicing sin), but this is not the case in the trusted KJV (that existed hundreds of years long before the Modern Translations showed up). (Note: I am not denying that it can be in reference to habitual sin, but it is not exclusively referring to habitual sin but also singular or temporary sin, too.).

Or we can look to the greek and see what is actually being said.

The KJV is not perfect.

even if it is. It proves I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF GOD TO CHANGE

YOU FALSLY ACCUSED ME OF THE OPPOSITE

own up to it man.
[qipte]
The key to understanding 1 John 3:9 is realizing that this "does not commit sin" is in context to the gnostic belief who think sin does not exist or that sin is an illusion in some way (See 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 2:26, Jude 1:4). Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. Eternal Security Proponents (i.e. OSAS - Once Saved Always Saved), and or Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Types (Free Will Baptists) think future sin is forgiven them by having a belief alone on Jesus. So while they believe sin may exist on a physical level, they do not think sin exists for them on a spiritual level because they believe Jesus paid for their future sins (When the Bible never says future sin is forgiven us). In other words, I believe it is those who justify sin in some way who have not been born again spiritually and who have never seen or known Christ and He (the seed) does not abide in them. 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 is talking about "willful sin" in Hebrews 10:26 in view or light of 1 John 1:8.

In other words, 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9 is in view of "willful sin" or "justifying sin" in some way.

1 John 3:9 should read like this:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [willfully, as if to justify it]; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin [willfully], because he is born of God."

1 John 3:6 should read like this:

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not [willfully, seeking to justify their sin]: whosoever sinneth [as if to justify their sin] hath not seen him, neither known him."

This would be in view or light of applying the context of the false gnostic belief that John warned the brethren about in 1 John 1:8.

Christians can battle with sin. This is why they need to confess of their sins in order to be forgiven of sin as per 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1-2 (cf. with: Proverbs 28:13, Psalms 51, Luke 15:18-21, Luke 18:9-14). But Christians are told to "sin no more" by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (John 5:14, John 8:11). The apostle John said to "sin not" (1 John 2:1).

Christians are to enter the Sanctification Process and put away sin by God's power.

It's why Paul said let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). Romans 8:13 essentially says if we live after the flesh, we will die, but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, we shall live. Two ways are set before us. We either seek to justify sin and die, or we seek to put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit and live (live eternally). Both God's grace (confessing sin to the Lord), and in forsaking our sin, and battling against putting it away by His power and help (and by putting the Word on the inside of us) is going to help us to overcome and live holy in this life. 1 Peter 4:1-2 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: I believe that the way they cease from sin was in the fact that they denied themselves sin, and prayed, and fasted, and suffered persecution for Christ); And this passage also says that we should live the rest of our time (here on Earth obviously) not to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God.

Paul says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).

So we have to in time have the victory over our sin. The time for each believer on this is between that person and God.[/QUOTE]

excuse me sir, you are adding to the word. the word gnosit. and the word willfull in not in Johns words.

You are changing the meaning and adding your own interpretation.

which just further exposes you as not only a false accuser but a false teacher

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Believers also are not forced to be a certain way, either.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

believers are not forced your right.

they are new creatures.

a dog returns to his vomit (sin) because he is a dog. He was never created new in christ

a believe is new. Sin is poison to him now. he is also chastened by God. A can not nor does he want to live as he did before.

Either way. Thanks for proving it is YOU, not me, who does not believe in the power of God to change lives

 

[Bible Highlighter]

dude, unless you repent of falsly accusing me, I will not longer respond to you.

you accused me of saying a christian is not fully and radically changed AFTER I posted john in saying the total opposite. Funny how you totally ignore that post and skipped over it. Did you think I was going to ignore it?

Until you respomnd to that post. you can post until your blue. You are exposed as a false accuser

This is what makes me believe that you truly don’t hold to the view that a believer comes to a full complete change (in living holy).

You said, I quote:

“Where you stand today, YOU DESERVE HELL. WE ALL DO.”​

Quote by Eternally Grateful - Post #81.

This suggests that we (yourself included) that we all deserve hell. The only way we deserve hell is if we sin. So this implies that you sin daily because you said, where you stand today, “You deserve hell.” Then you say… we all do. So this does not sound like you are for a complete surrender to God in obedience to Him in living holy (by saying this).

You also said, I quote:

“The prodigal son was still the son, He still had his fathers blood. He was still a child of the father. He lost his fathers blessings. He did not lose his sonship.”​

Quote by Eternally Grateful - Source quote.

This suggests that you believe that the prodigal son was saved even while he was living it up with prostitutes. So you teach that a believer can live it up with prostitutes and be saved. So how many times can a believer go prodigal? Cannot a believer easily deceive themselves into thinking they can go prodigal all the time? Just how long can a believer go prodigal in living it up with prostitutes and be saved? This again does not sound like you are for a full and complete change for the believer in living holy. Imagine telling a child this garbage. You can make them think they can live it up with prostitutes and be saved. But remember the punishment for those mentioned by our Lord Jesus if one leads a child into sin?

You said, I quote:

“Our salvation is not dependent on how good or how bad we are.”​

Quote by Eternally Grateful.

Source quote.

This suggests that if you salvation is not on how good or bad you are, then that means you can do bad and still be saved (Which means you don’t truly believe in the full complete change of the believer in living a holy life).

You said, I quote:

“That’s why many people who have really matured in Christ see themselves as worse sinners even if most of their lives they thought they were pretty good people because they did not commit these grave sins like adultry, murder. Etc etc. because they realise sin is so much deeper that breaking a command,”​

Quote by Eternally Grateful.

Source quote.

So if a matured believer sees themselves as the worst of sinners this again suggests that they don’t believe in a full and complete change of the believer in regards to living holy because there are still sins that they have not reconciled in their life.

So yes. I don’t believe you when you say that a believer makes a full and complete change. Therefore, I am not falsely accusing you. I am only going by your own stated words (Which are a contradiction to your other words on holy living - which is no real holy living at all but a justification of evil and sin).

 

[Taken]

Many today falsely teach a form of Justification (Being saved by God’s grace by believing in Jesus as their Savior or the finished work of the cross) in that they believe that this is total removal of the penalty of sin (in regards to even future sin) once for all (Whereby they never need to worry about sin jeopardizing their soul ever again).

Disagree with your teaching.
Not False, is True.

While it is true that we are saved by God’s grace initially

Initially? Salvation AND Quickening AND Receiving Gods Spirit with AND IN the man.....(ie Baptism of the Holy Spirit) ...FAILS?

The Greatest Power ever IN a man FAILS?

Uh, no.

First, only past sin is forgiven us.

True. And thereafter the Converted man can SIN NO MORE...

Second, believers also need to enter the Sanctification Process

No.

to live a holy life by the power of God’s Spirit (Whereby they will be fruitful, abstain from sin, and keep themselves unspotted from the world).

There is a process After A man has become Converted....which is for a man to make his own minds thoughts be made subjected to his new hearts thoughts.... mans job to have a mind like Christ.

 

[Taken]

believers are not forced your right.

they are new creatures.

a dog returns to his vomit (sin) because he is a dog. He was never created new in christ

a believe is new. Sin is poison to him now. he is also chastened by God. A can not nor does he want to live as he did before.

Either way. Thanks for proving it is YOU, not me, who does not believe in the power of God to change lives

Believers are not new creatures.
Converted are new creatures.
Believers can fall away.
Converted can never fall away.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Who has power over your salvation, you or God?

If God wants to condemn you, what power can stop him?

If God wants to save you, what power can stop him?

It seems we desperately want power over our own life and death, but we don't have any.

Can you choose to not be born?
Can you choose to not die?

No and no. God will save whom he will as he sees fit. Can you truly win against God?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is what makes me believe that you truly don’t hold to the view that a believer comes to a full complete change (in living holy).

You said, I quote:

“Where you stand today, YOU DESERVE HELL. WE ALL DO.”​

Quote by Eternally Grateful - Post #81.

This suggests that we (yourself included) that we all deserve hell. The only way we deserve hell is if we sin. So this implies that you sin daily because you said, where you stand today, “You deserve hell.” Then you say… we all do. So this does not sound like you are for a complete surrender to God in obedience to Him in living holy (by saying this).

This is what ages me know you do not believe God and his word

1. God said 1 sin is all it takes.. How many sins have you committed?
2. Anyone who says they do not deserve hell does not understand God period.

I have heard you are Jason from the old christian chat? Is this true. if so. i am really done with you. I ignore you on there. i will do the same her.

No use doing what @mailmandan always says, and beat a dead horse

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Believers are not new creatures.
Converted are new creatures.
Believers can fall away.
Converted can never fall away.

When I say believer, I am talking a true believer, not a make believer

A make believer will fall away.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Or we can look to the greek and see what is actually being said.

Which Koine Greek text is the perfect Word of God for the New Testament?

Textus Receptus? Critical Text? Another Koine Greek Text?

How do you know that the Koine Greek scholars got it right and they were not influenced by a false religious belief?

Do you fluently speak, write, and read Koine Greek?

Do you find yourself looking to the Koine Greek when you think the Bible is wrong in the English?

Who then becomes the authority? The Bible or your interpretation or the interpretation of religious men?

The KJV is not perfect.

I hold to two possibilities in regards to the King James Bible Cambridge Edition (circa 1900).

Either it is…

#1. The perfect Word of God, or:
#2. The most purest Word we can have in the English language.

Please keep in mind that I do believe that the King James Bible is written in archaic English, and that using Modern Translations can be extremely helpful in updating what the KJB says. But seeing Modern Bibles do teach false doctrines, we have to also be careful of what they say, as well (See my post here to learn more).

even if it is. It proves I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF GOD TO CHANGE

YOU FALSLY ACCUSED ME OF THE OPPOSITE

I don’t believe I falsely accused you, dear sir.
I am merely going off all of your words (Which contradicts your above statement).
Like most in the Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism Camp, they do not realize that they hold to contradictory beliefs and they also don’t realize that they speak in contradictions, as well. I know. I have been talking with them since 2010.

Anyone can see in post #112 that I was not falsely accusing you.

own up to it man.

You say… dude, and man. Are you a surfer?
How old are you?

Generally, people who are thirty and older don't use these words nearly as often as younger men do. At that age (30 and older): "Dude" may sound a little ridiculous or immature.

excuse me sir, you are adding to the word. the word gnosit. and the word willfull in not in Johns words.

If you were to read the verse reference next to my words “willful sin” you will find that it was Hebrews 10:26. The Bible speaks as a cohesive whole. My reference to willfully sin in Hebrews 10:26 is not adding to the Bible.

You are changing the meaning and adding your own interpretation.

No, it’s called reading the context of John’s epistle. John talked about those who were trying to seduce the brethren (1 John 2:26). This false belief by those who were trying to seduce the brethren would be those who thought sin did not exist (1 John 1:8) (1 John 1:10). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and so 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10 would be a warning to them. OSASers or “Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationists” believe that sin exists physically, but it does not exist for them on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for all their future sin. So they deny the existence of sin partially. So 1 John 1:8 would be a warning to them, as well. They think they have diplomatic immunity against sin by a belief alone in Jesus as their Savior. Some may admit that they can openly sin like the devil and be saved, and others are more reserved in their sinning on this point and they try to put on a show of holy living to show that they are changed (When they really are not changed all that much). They exchanged justifying bigger sins for justifying what they believe are lesser sins (despite the Bible still condemning those sins with warnings of hellfire or condemnation).

So when we read 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9, we have to keep these false gnostic’s view on sin in mind because that is the context.

which just further exposes you as not only a false accuser but a false teacher

I don’t believe you speak for God because you speak contrary to many verses in the Bible (that you have not explained).
However, God will ultimately be the judge of me, and not you.

Anyways, may God’s love shine upon you (even if we disagree strongly on the Bible).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Disagree with your teaching.
Not False, is True.



Initially? Salvation AND Quickening AND Receiving Gods Spirit with AND IN the man.....(ie Baptism of the Holy Spirit) ...FAILS?

The Greatest Power ever IN a man FAILS?

Uh, no.



True. And thereafter the Converted man can SIN NO MORE...



No.



There is a process After A man has become Converted....which is for a man to make his own minds thoughts be made subjected to his new hearts thoughts.... mans job to have a mind like Christ.

Please take no offense, but if you stop using the caps key all the time on certain words, and you remove your avatar that looks demonic, and you don’t speak in fragmented English that sounds incoherent most times, I might reply to you with Scripture, my friend.

I would encourage your to take a grammar course, and to not post evil looking things. Focus on that which is good, and godly.

Anyways, may the Lord bless you (even if we disagree on many things).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Who has power over your salvation, you or God?

If God wants to condemn you, what power can stop him?

If God wants to save you, what power can stop him?

It seems we desperately want power over our own life and death, but we don't have any.

Can you choose to not be born?
Can you choose to not die?

No and no. God will save whom he will as he sees fit. Can you truly win against God?

This sounds very Calvinistic. However, Calvinism is not even remotely biblical, though. Only one chapter sounds like Calvinism in the Bible and that is usually read out of context.