The Problem With The Trinity

[justbyfaith]

Who taught you that, the EASTER Bunny? Man translated the texts and man makes mistakes which is why we have so many translations that differ. You prefer the KJV which introduced "EASTER" to us and substituted a man made title in place of the Tetragrammaton and gave us the mangled name "Jesus".

Of course, the devil hates the concept of Easter; for it was the resurrection of Christ that ultimately defeated him.

I think that I am ready to give you your first admonition. You are a heretic in that you deny the Deity of Christ as the faithful doctrine that is presented to you.

My Bible tells me to reject heretics after the first and second admonition; knowing that they are subverted, and sin, being condemned of themselves.

Therefore you may indeed think that you have had the last word when all is said and done; nevertheless I say to you and to every onlooker very truly that this post is in fact the last word on the issue. When I stop answering your contentions, know that it is because I have rejected you as a teacher of heresy.

 

[gadar perets]

Of course, the devil hates the concept of Easter; for it was the resurrection of Christ that ultimately defeated him.

I think that I am ready to give you your first admonition. You are a heretic in that you deny the Deity of Christ as the faithful doctrine that is presented to you.

My Bible tells me to reject heretics after the first and second admonition; knowing that they are subverted, and sin, being condemned of themselves.

Therefore you may indeed think that you have had the last word when all is said and done; nevertheless I say to you and to every onlooker very truly that this post is in fact the last word on the issue. When I stop answering your contentions, know that it is because I have rejected you as a teacher of heresy.

You should know by now that a true child of YHWH does not fall prey to scare tactics.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't believe that there was any kind of scare tactic in my post; at least not any more than the scare tactic that the Lord Himself would utilize against you in convicting you of sin and righteousness and judgment.

Since only those who affirm the Deity of Christ are even children of YHWH, that would disqualify you as being His child. The children of YHWH are not going to die in their sins; but it is clear that you are going to die in your sins unless you repent of your unbelief in the essential doctrine of the Deity of Christ.

Consider this to be your second admonition.

Because there may not be much time left for you to be able to repent.

Time and chance happen to everything; and you do not know what a day might bring forth (Ecclesiastes 9:11, Proverbs 27:1).

It may be that YHWH is going to make an example of you as someone who hardened their heart too many times and then was killed in some way, shape or form by circumstances beyond their control.

We will see, won't we?

 

[gadar perets]

I don't believe that there was any kind of scare tactic in my post; at least not any more than the scare tactic that the Lord Himself would utilize against you in convicting you of sin and righteousness and judgment.

Since only those who affirm the Deity of Christ are even children of YHWH, that would disqualify you as being His child. The children of YHWH are not going to die in their sins; but it is clear that you are going to die in your sins unless you repent of your unbelief in the essential doctrine of the Deity of Christ.

Consider this to be your second admonition.

Because there may not be much time left for you to be able to repent.

Time and chance happen to everything; and you do not know what a day might bring forth (Ecclesiastes 9:11, Proverbs 27:1).

It may be that YHWH is going to make an example of you as someone who hardened their heart too many times and then was killed in some way, shape or form by circumstances beyond their control.

We will see, won't we?

More scare tactics. Last time I read Scripture, the requirement to become a child of YHWH was receiving Yeshua as Savior and putting your faith in him;

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Messiah Yeshua.​

 

[justbyfaith]

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

By putting your faith in a Jesus who isn't the Lord (God), you put your faith in an idol of your own making: another Jesus than the Jesus that the Bible speaks of.

For the true Jesus proclaimed to the scribes and Pharisees, Before Abraham was, I am; understanding that they would take that to mean that He was claiming to be God (which is exactly how they perceived His claim): and He also made it clear in the conversation previous to that, that if they will not believe His claim, they will die in their sins.

Therefore, you are also guilty of idolatry in that you worship a Jesus of your own making: a concoction of your own imagination.

You need to repent and start worshiping the Jesus of the Bible, my friend.

I have already given you a second admonition; and therefore I will feel free to drop this conversation at any time; while I feel that there may still be hope for you so I persist in the conversation in the hopes that you might see the error of your ways and repent.

 

[gadar perets]

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

By putting your faith in a Jesus who isn't the Lord (God), you put your faith in an idol of your own making: another Jesus than the Jesus that the Bible speaks of.

For the true Jesus proclaimed to the scribes and Pharisees, Before Abraham was, I am; understanding that they would take that to mean that He was claiming to be God (which is exactly how they perceived His claim): and He also made it clear in the conversation previous to that, that if they will not believe His claim, they will die in their sins.

Therefore, you are also guilty of idolatry in that you worship a Jesus of your own making: a concoction of your own imagination.

You need to repent and start worshiping the Jesus of the Bible, my friend.

I have already given you a second admonition; and therefore I will feel free to drop this conversation at any time; while I feel that there may still be hope for you so I persist in the conversation in the hopes that you might see the error of your ways and repent.

I will NEVER corrupt myself into believing the Satanic doctrine that Messiah Yeshua is my heavenly Father YHWH, so you might as well drop this conversation.

 

[justbyfaith]

I will NEVER corrupt myself into believing the Satanic doctrine that Messiah Yeshua is my heavenly Father YHWH, so you might as well drop this conversation.

It is to your own eternal damnation.

But it is clear to me that your mind is made up; so all I can do is pray for you.

For it appears that you are in the same state as all of the other Jews who reject Jesus as their Messiah. For it is clear that Isaiah 9:6 is a Messianic scripture.

Perhaps if you had lived in a different time in history, you might have been saved.

For it is written that in the last days, all of Israel shall be saved.

But apparently these are not those days. These are the days in which it is fulfilled that which is written,

Rom 11:7, What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8, (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.
Rom 11:9, And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10, Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Therefore you cannot repent of your unbelief; because of King David's prayer against you in the days that he was alive.

And it is also written in the book of Acts:

Act 28:25, And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28, Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

 

[gadar perets]

It is to your own eternal damnation.

But it is clear to me that your mind is made up; so all I can do is pray for you.

For it appears that you are in the same state as all of the other Jews who reject Jesus as their Messiah. For it is clear that Isaiah 9:6 is a Messianic scripture.

Perhaps if you had lived in a different time in history, you might have been saved.

For it is written that in the last days, all of Israel shall be saved.

But apparently these are not those days. These are the days in which it is fulfilled that which is written,

Rom 11:7, What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8, (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.
Rom 11:9, And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10, Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Therefore you cannot repent of your unbelief; because of King David's prayer against you in the days that he was alive.

And it is also written in the book of Acts:

Act 28:25, And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28, Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

As far as I know, I am not a Jew by birth. I am and Israelite through Yeshua. I also believe every word of Isaiah 9:6 in the Hebrew text. (BTW, here is how the Septuagint reads);

Isa 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.​

I also fully understand it refers to Messiah Yeshua who is my Master and Saviour whether you accept that or not. Thankfully you are not my judge.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is how the inerrant, inspired kjv reads:

Isa 9:6, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So I sincerely doubt that the Septuagint reads the way that you say it does. There are too many titles missing in the version that you have set forth.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Here is how the inerrant, inspired kjv reads:

Isa 9:6, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So I sincerely doubt that the Septuagint reads the way that you say it does. There are too many titles missing in the version that you have set forth.

Spot on !

 

[gadar perets]

Here is how the inerrant, inspired kjv reads:

Isa 9:6, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So I sincerely doubt that the Septuagint reads the way that you say it does. There are too many titles missing in the version that you have set forth.

I copied it directly from eSword. Yeshua said, “ And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven” (Matthew 23:9).
By saying that, he made a distinction between himself and the one Father in heaven (YHWH). In fact, he is commanding us not to call him "father".

Also, anyone that claims the KJV is inerrant displays his ignorance before all.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, anyone that claims the KJV is inerrant displays his ignorance before all.

That is your opinion.

I know that we are considered to be the backwards "hicks" that are keeping the New Age Movement from heading forward.

Persecuted for righteousness' sake...Matthew 5:10-12, 2 Timothy 3:10-12...

I will say this: that the way to life is narrow and few there be that find it (those are Jesus' words, not mine).

 

[gadar perets]

That is your opinion.

I know that we are considered to be the backwards "hicks" that are keeping the New Age Movement from heading forward.

Persecuted for righteousness' sake...Matthew 5:10-12, 2 Timothy 3:10-12...

I will say this: that the way to life is narrow and few there be that find it (those are Jesus' words, not mine).

The narrow way is Yeshua and I found him and he lives in me.

 

[justbyfaith]

The narrow way is Yeshua and I found him and he lives in me.

You simply have the wrong Jesus (see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4).

 

[gadar perets]

You simply have the wrong Jesus (see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4).

And you have the right "Jesus"? A "Jesus" who usurps his Father's position as the only true God; who teaches his Father's people that His commandments, statutes and judgments are abolished; who teaches his Father's people to trample on all of His holy days and to eat unclean meat?

As for 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I received the same "Jesus" as the Christians who witnessed to me. However, that "Jesus" taught me his true name and his Father's name; all about holy days; all about how not to defile myself spiritually AND physically; and how his Father is the only true God (John 17:3). You reject his words and teach otherwise.

 

[justbyfaith]

And you have the right "Jesus"?

Yes, I do.

A "Jesus" who usurps his Father's position as the only true God;

No; the Jesus I have does not usurp anything. He was the Father from the beginning. It is a major part of gospel truth that God became a Man and dwelt among us.

who teaches his Father's people that His commandments, statutes and judgments are abolished; who teaches his Father's people to trample on all of His holy days and to eat unclean meat?

My Jesus tells me that not ont jot or tittle shall pass away from the law until heaven and earth pass away. However, He also teaches me that the purpose of the law is to show men that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Galatians 3:24-25, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)). It was never intended to be a system of works-righteousness by which a man is saved.

Concerning unclean meat, the NT is clear:

Rom 14:14, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15, But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4, For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5, For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1Ti 4:6, If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1Co 8:8, But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

As for 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I received the same "Jesus" as the Christians who witnessed to me. However, that "Jesus" taught me his true name and his Father's name; all about holy days; all about how not to defile myself spiritually AND physically; and how his Father is the only true God (John 17:3). You reject his words and teach otherwise.

I believe that the words of the NT are inspired by the Lord. And among them are these:

Col 2:13, And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

So I am not rejecting His words; but abiding in them.

 

[gadar perets]

So I am not rejecting His words; but abiding in them.

You are abiding in your false understanding of his words. I have addressed all these passages that you cite. Not one of them allows for the eating of unclean meat.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are abiding in your false understanding of his words. I have addressed all these passages that you cite. Not one of them allows for the eating of unclean meat.

It's alright for you to be a legalist. If my eating of unclean meat affects your conscience, I will not eat unclean meat when I am present with you (but I am only required to do this if you were a fellow believer in the Jesus of the Bible, who is God come in human flesh).

I am not concerned with your addresses as they were made a long time ago and I have forgotten them. If you want to repeat yourself then I will consider them again; but as I recall, I addressed them adequately when you made them, and therefore there is no need to rehash the issue again in this thread.

I will quote a singular scripture for your benefit, so that you will perhaps repent of being so much of a legalist (because it really isn't spiritually healthy):

Rom 14:1, Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2, For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3, Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4, Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

According to this passage, if you are a brother you are a weaker brother.

I would point out to you, also, that when the scripture says the word all, it means all.

 

[gadar perets]

It's alright for you to be a legalist.

A legalist is someone who seeks to be justified and/or saved by the law. I do neither. You love to accuse because it makes you seem right in the eyes of those who read this thread.

Rom 14:1, Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2, For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3, Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4, Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

According to this passage, if you are a brother you are a weaker brother.

I would point out to you, also, that when the scripture says the word all, it means all.

Rom 14:1, Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2, For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Notice that the weaker one is a vegetarian and the stronger one eats both meats and vegetables. "All" refers to eating "all" categories of things that CAN be eaten. It does not include things that cannot be eaten. Or are you saying "all" includes eating humans? When the Scriptures say "all" it does not necessarily mean "all". For example, in 1Co 10:23, Paul said, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." Is Paul saying it is lawful for him to murder, steal, commit adultery and idolatry? Of course not.

Rom 14:3, Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
The one who eats all edible food should not despise him who chooses to be a vegetarian. The vegetarian should not judge the one who eats all permissible food. Elohim receives the one who eats all permissible food.
Rom 14:4, Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
This is referring to the issue at hand (vegetarianism vs. eating all permissible food). Neither should judge the other because it is not a sin to do either. However, it IS a sin to break YHWH's laws of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. Therefore, the sinner MUST be corrected or his sin will infect the entire congregation until the whole is leavened with eating forbidden food as Eve did. Do NOT listen to the serpent as he deceives you into eating what YHWH forbids. Learn from Adam and Eve's mistake.

I will also add in Romans 14:14 from the KJV since you quoted that previously as well.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
The word "unclean" should have been translated "common", as it is from the Greek word koinos. The margin of most good study Bibles will confirm this.

Recall what Peter said in Acts 10:14, ". . . I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean." The word common in this verse is "koinos" and the word unclean is the Greek word "akathartos". Animals declared unclean by YHWH in Lev. 11 are akathartos. However, when a clean animal becomes inedible for some reason, for example, by being sacrificed to an idol, it is called common or koinos. Paul's statement in Rom 14:14 referred to clean meat which a weak brother would consider (esteemeth) common and therefore not eat, preferring instead to only eat herbs, (vs. 2). A pig is unclean of itself, it was created unclean. A goat that was sacrificed to an idol is not common of itself. It became common in the mind of a person through outside means. The weaker brother esteemed in his own mind that meat should not be eaten because it may have become common for some reason. It is common meat that Paul was referring to, not unclean meat.

 

[justbyfaith]

all permissible food

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4, For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5, For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1Ti 4:6, If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

This is the word of God that sanctifies what was previously considered unclean:

Luk 11:41, But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

It should also be clear that God did not institute food laws on Noah and his descendants (the food laws are only for the Jewish people outside of Christ):

Gen 9:3, Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

A pig is unclean of itself, it was created unclean.

Your statement is in contradiction to the scripture that you had been addressing previous to it:

Rom 14:14, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

I suppose that now you are going to try to say that nothing doesn't really mean nothing?