The Problem With The Trinity

[justbyfaith]

You need to think about yourself instead of me. If you are wrong in making the Son the great I AM and worshipping him as though he is the Father, then it will not go well for you.

I know that I am not wrong; for I know what my Bible says and teaches.

It is not idolatry to worship Jesus. Would God command the angels to commit idolatry?

Heb 1:6, And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Hi Reggie.

Consider that there is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5) and that He is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3). And it is also clear that Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).

These things, if you look at them carefully, present an airtight case that Jesus is the Father; just as it is written in Isaiah 9:6.

Yes as far as we Humans are concerned when be become born again we understand that Jesus is the Father also, as all 3 are as one, that's the Trinity.

The Jews and people who have no faith or little faith in God can not understand the relationship, so they demand like a spoilt brat that they know God but the fact remains the they only know god not God ? for if they knew God then they would know who Jesus Christ truly is and give true regard as to him.

The Jews did not know God they only have a god, they know not the Father, as one can only come to the Father through his only begotten Son.
So such was blinded by the Law always and still is, for they have no Grace.
So all that the Jew has is the Law and the only thing that empowers the law is to condemn one for not following the Laws and nothing more than that, but when Jesus Christ came he put the Law under Grace and the Law is still there as Jesus pointed this fact out, that he came not to change one law at all, but to finish this work of Holy Moses off and that means the Law is now under Grace, as he gave 2 commandments that top it all off, that every true Christian knows and lives by, because without that there is no Grace.
The Jew is only like dog chasing his own tail running around in circles going know where and barking at shadows.

The Atheist do not know God but have many gods, so such a one is on the wrong page to start with and has not a clue on the subject truly at hand at all, but they claim to know in their ignorance and they are only dribbling morons who are totally lost, they are a disgrace and only a rabble.

 

[gadar perets]

I know that I am not wrong; for I know what my Bible says and teaches.

You know what your English Bible teaches and I know what the Hebrew and Greek texts teach.

It is not idolatry to worship Jesus. Would God command the angels to commit idolatry?

Heb 1:6, And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The angels of God were not commanded to worship the Son as though he is the one true God. That is idolatry. We are to honor and bow down to the Son for who he is and what he has done. We are NOT to honor and bow down to him as though he is Father YHWH or for the things YHWH has done. Christians ignorantly believe Yeshua created everything; that he parted the Red Sea; that he gave Torah to Israel; etc. Utter ignorance.

Also, I suggest you do a word study on the Hebrew and Greek words translated "worship"

 

[gadar perets]

Yes as far as we Humans are concerned when be become born again we understand that Jesus is the Father also, as all 3 are as one, that's the Trinity.

That is NOT the trinity. That is the Oneness doctrine which is even worse. The trinity is three separate persons and is illustrated as follows;



The Son is NOT the Father.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Torment means a living person is suffering physically or mentally. If I am dead, the dead no nothing. If I am being tormented while alive, then I have everlasting life which is contrary to Yeshua's words.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
​

These led to the formation of "orthodox Christianity" whose doctrines are far different than those that Yeshua taught and that were held by the Apostles.

A Christian believes in the Soul ? and after your life in the Flesh is passed away, that Soul still lives.

One who claims that when one passes away dead and then their is nothing, is clearly an atheist point of view.

 

[gadar perets]

A Christian believes in the Soul ? and after your life in the Flesh is passed away, that Soul still lives.

One who claims that when one passes away dead and then their is nothing, is clearly an atheist point of view.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

That is NOT the trinity. That is the Oneness doctrine which is even worse. The trinity is three separate persons and is illustrated as follows;

View attachment 7137

The Son is NOT the Father.

God is the Father, you have 4 their, but there is only 3 in fact.

 

[gadar perets]

God is the Father, you have 4 their, but there is only 3 in fact.

What??? The trinity states there are three persons that comprise the one God. You are not a trinitarian.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are not in the realm of orthodox Christianity in your belief that He isn't.

Thankfully.

.
.
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You preach another gospel. <than what I preach>

Thankfully.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

That's not Christianity.
Ecc the key word to this is Vanity the futile emptiness of trying to be happy apart from God

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

What??? The trinity states there are three persons that comprise the one God. You are not a trinitarian.

That's just Protestant rubbish.

I am a Catholic, not a RC but the RCC doctrine in correct in this light.

 

[justbyfaith]

You know what your English Bible teaches and I know what the Hebrew and Greek texts teach.

The common people received Jesus gladly, while the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Him.

If a person must understand the original languages in order to get the unadulterated message of the whole counsel of the Lord, then the Greek and Hebrew scholar (the educated scribe and Pharisee) has an advantage over the common person.

I am of the belief that God is sovereign and loving and Omnipotent. Therefore, He would not allow His translation into English to be corrupted in any way...He will give us everything that we need for salvation in our own language as we read it in translations available to us (especially the kjv).

The angels of God were not commanded to worship the Son as though he is the one true God.

But they were commanded to worship someone who isn't God? Think about what you're saying.

 

[justbyfaith]

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
These led to the formation of "orthodox Christianity" whose doctrines are far different than those that Yeshua taught and that were held by the Apostles.

Now, in Revelation 2:1-7, it shows that there was a faithful group who pinned the false apostles spoken of in Acts of the Apostles 20:29 to the wall. Those false apostles did not prevail in the early church to bring false doctrine into the church. Faithful doctrine was preserved.

God, who is sovereign and loving and Omnipotent, is not going to allow doctrine that is defined as "orthodox" to be false doctrine...it would pervert human language itself if such a thing were to occur.

 

[gadar perets]

But they were commanded to worship someone who isn't God? Think about what you're saying.

That is why I told you to study the words translated "worship". He did not command angel's to "worship" the Son, but to bow down to and honor as one would their King.

 

[justbyfaith]

That reminds me of something in particular...

Isa 43:15, I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Jhn 19:19, And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Jhn 19:20, This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Jhn 19:21, Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
Jhn 19:22, Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.

Isa 44:6, Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

 

[gadar perets]

That reminds me of something in particular...

Isa 43:15, I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Jhn 19:19, And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Jhn 19:20, This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Jhn 19:21, Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
Jhn 19:22, Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.

Isa 44:6, Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

The fact that YHWH and Yeshua are both Kings doesn't make Yeshua YHWH or the God of Israel any more than it does Hezekiah or Josiah or any other king of Israel.

 

[justbyfaith]

The fact that YHWH and Yeshua are both Kings doesn't make Yeshua YHWH or the God of Israel any more than it does Hezekiah or Josiah or any other king of Israel.

It is another piece of evidence for what I am saying, however.

It seems to me, that you will find a way to dismiss any and all evidence that is presented to you; for that is your mindset.

On the final day, when you stand before Christ, He is going to ask you why you rejected all of the evidence that was presented to you in order that you might believe in the Deity of Christ and avoid dying in your sins. He may say to you, if you do not repent of your unbelief concerning His Deity, "I presented to you the evidence for the truth, and you continued to reject it, knowing that in doing so you would keep your sin(s) and would die in them. Did you not desire to be delivered from sin? Why did you choose to hold on to what bound you? Did you not know that receiving Me as God was the only path to victory?"

 

[justbyfaith]

That is why I told you to study the words translated "worship". He did not command angel's to "worship" the Son, but to bow down to and honor as one would their King.

I believe in God's sovereign hand in the translation of the kjv...and therefore I also believe that when it says worship in Hebrews 1:6, that this is accurate to what the Lord wants to be set across as the truth of holy scripture.

 

[gadar perets]

It is another piece of evidence for what I am saying, however.

That is another piece of evidence showing how you read into texts whatever you want and do not consider how other verses may disprove your line of thinking.

It seems to me, that you will find a way to dismiss any and all evidence that is presented to you; for that is your mindset.

I dismiss all false evidence.

On the final day, when you stand before Christ, He is going to ask you why you rejected all of the evidence that was presented to you in order that you might believe in the Deity of Christ and avoid dying in your sins. He may say to you, if you do not repent of your unbelief concerning His Deity, "I presented to you the evidence for the truth, and you continued to reject it, knowing that in doing so you would keep your sin(s) and would die in them. Did you not desire to be delivered from sin? Why did you choose to hold on to what bound you? Did you not know that receiving Me as God was the only path to victory?"

On the final day, when you stand before Messiah, He is going to ask you why you rejected all of the evidence that was presented to you in order that you might believe in YHWH as the only true Elohim and avoid dying in your sins. He may say to you, if you do not repent of your unbelief concerning YHWH being the only Deity, "I presented to you the evidence for the truth, and you continued to reject it, knowing that in doing so you would keep your sin of idolatry and would die in it. Did you not desire to be delivered from sin? Why did you choose to hold on to what bound you? Did you not know that knowing my Father as the only true God and knowing me, the one God sent, as I said in John 17:3, was the only path to eternal life?"

 

[gadar perets]

I believe in God's sovereign hand in the translation of the kjv...

Who taught you that, the EASTER Bunny? Man translated the texts and man makes mistakes which is why we have so many translations that differ. You prefer the KJV which introduced "EASTER" to us and substituted a man made title in place of the Tetragrammaton and gave us the mangled name "Jesus".

and therefore I also believe that when it says worship in Hebrews 1:6, that this is accurate to what the Lord wants to be set across as the truth of holy scripture.

Even if "worship" was the correct translation (which it is not), it does NOT say to worship the Son as though he is the Father, the God of Israel, Almighty YHWH.