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The Problem With The Trinity

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by JesusIsFaithful, Jun 3, 2017.

  1. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    Although there is a Triune God and that there are 3 Witnesses within the One God; the concept of the Trinity is not how God the Father wants us to worship Him by. And He will judge believers by this too.

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    The Holy Spirit is sent to dwell within us to testify of the Son in glorifying the Son. Now how is He going to do that? Through us.

    John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14 He shall glorify me: .........

    A witness cannot speak of himself in seeking his own glory or otherwise it is a false witness.

    John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

    John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

    Therefore the Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself through the believers in seeking His own glory for then that would mean there is unrighteousness in the Holy Spirit, but there is none.

    It is when believers have been misled into thinking they are to honor & glorify the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but they do so not by the scripture nor by the Holy Spirit leading them to say this.

    The errant Nicene creed introduced the unBiblical practice and believers need to narrow the way back to the straight gate in the wrship place and in fellowship and in prayer when coming to God the Father at all.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Please hear His words; the Son is the only way to honor & glorify God the Father by. That is what the Holy Spirit has been sent to lead us to do as dwelling within us.

    John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

    Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed...........

    Paul stressed that focal point in worship to be on the Son.

    Even in fellowship.

    1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    So God the Father is not honored by honoring the Holy Spirit nor the "Trinity", because the Holy Spirit and scripture is leading believers to do the Father's will by honoring & glorifying the Son and by doing so, we are honoring & glorifying God the Father. Jesus really is the only way to come to God the Father in anything in prayer, fellowship, and worship as those led by the Spirit of God & scripture shall do by His grace & by His help.

    So ask Jesus for confirmation on how the Father wants you to only honor Him by today, and help to do His will by only honoring the Son in all things.
     
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  2. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Do you believe there is a difference between the terms triadic and triune?
     
  3. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

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    There is no triune God.

    John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Mark 14: 36And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

    Christ is a separate being and has been so from before the creation of the heavens and earth. By acomplishing perfect when he was put into flesh he became a temple that the Father could work through;

    1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  4. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    You may have to edit your comment out of the quote you have from me in your earlier reply.

    As it is, Jesus Before His incarnation is the God that men have seen in the Old Testament. Feel free to go to that link to that topic in this forum.

    Jesus Before His Incarnation
     
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  5. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I am not a subscriber to the trinity belief. I believe there is a Father, son and holy ghost, but they are all manifestations of one God.
     
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  6. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    this would be true but the real problem is the hack job people do to the expected understanding of the three

    this is the foundational equivalent of the trinity theology set forth by the then fledgling Catholic church.

    "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system."

    the three have been understood by the Hebrews long before Christ was manifest in the flesh.

    the father son and spirit is scriptural via OT Abraham represented the Father Isaac the Son who was offered by the Father, and Jacob the Spirit the Holy Spirit of which the first twelve were to be born from. and all the rest are by the Lord's Words Himself "Children of Israel and we know the Lord their God renamed Jacob "Israel"

    but in respect to witness, God is your witness, and you (if born again) are a product of God's revelation to you in His Presence (Holy Spirit) there for in Spirit you are a witness of Him through Christ of course.

    its simple:


    there is God, there is the Presence of God (Holy Spirit) and there is the Word of God that proceeds from God. not just about every living creature has the same aspects. there is the dog, the presence of the dog in the earth (the flesh) and the expressions of the dog that proceed from the dog. (such as barking, marking territory) that communicate to other living creatures in the earth.

    so there's the dog the presence of the dog and his expressions that go forth from the dog.


    but in the case of our God, these precepts are God, the Word of God is God because it has the power of God which verifies that its of God (witness) so is the same with the Presence of God (Holy Spirit) it has the power of God therefore a testament of the Presence of God with you.

    what did Jesus say in so many words? that if you have not the Spirit you are not welcome in His Kingdom, therefore the being born of the Spirit is your witness that you belong with God because His Presence is with you.

    all creature God gave life to have the life given it, the presence in the place its been given to be present in (the earth, for example) and the ability to express itself to other living things.

    in the first three versuse in the bible these are established as God who created His Presence which is His Spirit that moved over the waters and God said, hence His Word proceeded from Him and returned fulfilled to where He saw that it was good and declared it good. hence God being not only Creator but also Judge.
     
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  7. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Do you feel the concept of a oneness of unity is somehow contradictory in and of itself?
     
  8. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what your question means.
     
  9. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Do you believe it is possible for three separate things to be one?
     
  10. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Sure. 3 jigsaw puzzle pieces can be one jigsaw puzzle.
     
  11. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Then do you suppose then that it is possible for three separate spiritual entities to be one God?
     
  12. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Sure, if God wanted that, but i don't believe that to be the case. I see it as one God who manifested himself in different ways. Two of them being Jesus and as the spirit of Truth.
     
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  13. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    How would you explain the manifestation of God at the baptism of Jesus, or at the destruction of the cities of the plains.
     
  14. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe i need to. God can manifest himself in many ways. He can manifest himself in different ways at the same time.
     
  15. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    For those seeking His wisdom and answers from the Lord concerning any subject, do pray normally as others do at that throne of grace for the wisdom, discernment, and answers you seek from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and you will receive an answer.

    Sometimes He provides before you ask Him too.

    James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

    Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
     
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  16. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    So what you are having a problem with is the idea that they are three separate and distinct persons. Is this correct?
     
  17. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I am not having a problem at all. God is one God who manifests himself in different ways. 3 of the ways are as a Father, as Jesus Christ and as a comforter and spirit of truth.
     
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  18. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Would you agree that a discontinuity exists between the reality of God and man's perception of God that is compounded by the limitations of both the human mind and the human use of language?
     
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  19. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Speaking in a general sense, sure. But what is the point of that question?
     
  20. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Simply that our perception of the nature of God is also burdened by the limited capacity of human language. It is impossible to describe linguistically that which the mind cannot conceive or comprehend. Since God exists on a plane that is not accessible to man at the sensory level, we have no experiential index by which to explain the nature of God. Our only context for understanding the nature of God is the reveled language of scripture.
     
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